Who is in the right here?

[Patrick]

Have you ever been to Auckland -

Only lived there for 37 years and worked my line of work for 16 there.

im sure i read some case law on this and a drive is classed as a road in some circumstances such as rural drives that can be kms long, i will try and dig it out.

Try Section 2 of the Land Transport Act - Definitions. Look up "road." Driveways are expressly excluded.

Yes, but (as I said before) I think the relevant question for the application of the give way rules is not, "Is this driveway/entranceway/whatever a road?" but "Is the place where it joins a road an intersection?". The Road Code says it is for public entrances and (I forget the rest).

The rest is - "The bit where it joins the road, is the gutter..."

[Badjelly]

Yes, however, all your issues are minor, however you blow them out of proportion for effect.

I don't think all the issues are minor. The fact that a vehicle turning right out of a side road does not have to give way to a right-turning vehicle approaching from the left, but does have to give way to straight-through vehicles coming from the same direction occasionally causes a great deal of confusion and indecision. You claim never to have observed this. I have, many times.

Ironically however, driving around half fucken blind is NOT a minor issue.

What the fuck are you on about?

[The Stranger:Me]

What the fuck are you on about?

Your repeated assertions that you can't see.
Such as.

I'm vehicle A, turning right into a side street, and I see vehicle B come out of the side street. Is his right-hand indicator flashing? (I can't see, because it's on the side of the car away from me.) Is there a Give Way or Stop sign on the side street? Oh, WTF, I'll just drive far enough forward that he can't pull out in front of me and then make the turn.

Hey don't shoot the messenger.

[Max Preload]

Your repeated assertions that you can't see.

Or at least, refuses to look.

[Badjelly]

Your repeated assertions that you can't see.

...that on occasions I haven't been able see the right-hand, front indicator of a car in a side road or public driveway on the right, until I was nearly in front of the vehicle in question, because the indicator was obscured by the front of the car. You pointed out that there was a compliance requirement that the RH indicator be visible from 45 deg. (Thanks for that, I wasn't aware of it.) Well, to be at a 45 deg angle in this situation you have to be almost in front of the vehicle in the side road.

You interpreted this as my saying I have poor vision. I never bothered correcting this because it's obvious to anyone who reads my words (other than you, apparently) that I never said that.

[robboh]

Originally Posted by MSTRS
Mind you, that 'no-one' can understand Giveway to your right is not surprising...look at the fuckwits and their indicator use in roundabouts.

I know how to fix that, it's obvious - lets change the rules.

The scary thing is, they did. About a year ago!! And people STILL get it wrong. They dont do what the original rule was (indicate left to enter roundabout, then indicate right, then indicate left to exit) OR the new rule.

People just DONT seem to get roundabouts. The number of times Im actually IN the roundabout (in my cage) and someone comes screaming straight across my nose from the left is ridiculous!! Im not just talking trying to squeeze in, Im talking having to jump on the anchors to avoid hitting them in the drivers door!! One roundabout seems very prone to it on my way to work. And the Royal Oak roundabout is just chaos with dual lanes + 5 exits.

The new rule is actually far simpler (treat it like an intersection, indicate left or right, and not if going straight, and then indicate left prior to your exit), and is now how I think it always should have been. I believe the old rule was ridiculous, confusing, and caused accidents (coz you couldnt tell what the person was actually going to do at the roundabout).

Interestingly, a cop in Palmy told my old man that they wouldnt typically actually enforce the new law due to the small size of most of the roundabouts. I say thats crazy, since there are actually less indication changes compared to the old law!!

And DONT get me started on some of the absolute crazy things I see outside my work every day in new market (side road beside the cock and bull). And this is being a fly-on-the-wall observer on the footpath, not from on the road.

Things like people hanging a left into that road and then almost immediately deciding they want to go back out the same way... and then proceed to do a 7 point turn (since they dont actually know where the edges of their car are)... IN RUSH HOUR!!... blocking traffic for ages, in both directions... all because of their own selfishness!!

And THEN there are the pedestrians that just seem to think that the road is for them, and that the traffic should give way to them while they amble across the road. Making cars jump on the anchors etc, when there is a lighted crossing literally 50m away!!

And while I hate generalising, I would have to say that about 80% of the time I see either of the above (and I probably see about 5 or so occurances of each a day), its usually someone of eastern persuasion doing it.

Then there is that really high incidence of totally broken indicators in Akl. Or the slightly faulty ones that must be g-force activated, coz they only ever seem to come on once the car is IN the corner!!!

OK. Ive wound myself up enough here.
/ Rant off.

[Max Preload]

The scary thing is, they did. About a year ago!! And people STILL get it wrong. They dont do what the original rule was (indicate left to enter roundabout, then indicate right, then indicate left to exit) OR the new rule.

There is no 'new' rule - it's always been the same in my 21 years of driving.

[robboh]

I know how to fix that, it's obvious - lets change the rules.

There is no 'new' rule - it's always been the same in my 21 years of driving.

The new indication rules came in at the same time as only being able to use fog lamps when its foggy, the new pedestrian crossing laws, and minimum following distance laws.

I thought it was only a year or so ago, but looks like it was a little earlier (2005). But I also seem to recall something on the news about it, not so long ago. Maybe they were doing a review of how pitifully everyone is following the new lays.

I notice somewhere buried in the summary & Q+A that the roundabout indication law is legislating what had previously been guidance.

However, I am positive when I was sitting my tests in the mid 80's, that the road code actually stated that you had to indicate left onto a roundabout initially, then right as you followed it (no matter how far around) and then left again to exit. It stuck with me as I recall thinking what an absolutely daft rule it was.

And believe it or not, I actually DID see someone doing it exactly like that the other day (at least they were indicating :grin, and it had me thinking how daft it was all over again. Either that, or they just changed their mind :grin: I almost ran into them as they carried on around when I was expecting them to go left (as they were initially indicating).

And yes, I have always done it the way the rule is now (officially) too. Id love to be able to find some old copies of the road code, just so I can see if I was right... or that Im actually just going senile at an early age

All this argument one way or another about road rules is kinda a waste of time anyway. Whatever they are, noone will follow them. People cant even use indicators at normal intersections for pity's sake.

I always subscribed to the standard 'treat everyone like they are out to kill you' when riding a bike, but Ive even gotten to the stage in my car now.

[Voltaire]

Riding a fully loaded BMW two up around Istanbul for a day will teach you everything you need to know about " right of way"

Motorcycles are at the bottom of the road pecking order.
Traffic lights don't give you right of way, but the opportunity to proceed with caution.
Removing sunglasses and getting 'eye contact' helps...
Get out of the way for vehicles coming towards you....

I would prefer all countries had the same road rules...it just makes sense.
( and the fact they drive on the other side makes no difference after a few hours....in fact it heightens your awareness).

[MSTRS:Me]

The new indication rules came in at the same time as only being able to use fog lamps when its foggy, the new pedestrian crossing laws, and minimum following distance laws.

... that the roundabout indication law is legislating what had previously been guidance.

The only new thing in there is the ped crossing stuff. Previously you could not proceed if a pedestrian was on your side of the centre line. Now it's the whole crossing, unless there is some sort of barrier system or raised median in the centre. Plus I noticed that round here (at least) the roadway got a 'proximity' limit line painted maybe 3m from the pedestrian stripes.

[Max Preload]

The new indication rules came in at the same time as only being able to use fog lamps when its foggy, the new pedestrian crossing laws, and minimum following distance laws.

The so-called new rule was in the copy of the road code I had when taught by a driving instructor at 15. At the vehicle limit line you only indicate left if you're taking the first exit and only indicate right if you're going more than half way around. You always indicate left as soon as you're past the exit before the one you're taking.

[MSTRS:Me]

The so-called new rule was in the copy of the road code I had when taught by a driving instructor at 15. At the vehicle limit line you only indicate left if you're taking the first exit and only indicate right if you're going more than half way around. You always indicate left as soon as you're past the exit before the one you're taking.

Move along. Nothing new here....

[Squiggles]

Reading this thread is fucken scary.

[Badjelly]

I would prefer all countries had the same road rules...it just makes sense.

I spent a few days in Arequipa, Peru, last summer. No driving (thank heavens) but I walked around quite a bit. In the inner city the streets are on a grid and most of the 4-way intersections have no signs. There may be a give way to left or give way to right rule, but I saw no evidence of it. Traffic in one direction bullies its way through for a while, then a vehicle trying to go in the other direction manages to poke its nose in, whereupon it and the others bully their way through for a while. Pedestrians scurry across where they can, but if you make eye contact with drivers and look determined enough, they'll stop for you. It's sort of a "courtesy prevails" system, where "courtesy" has a peculiarly South American flavour.

After a few days I had to admit it worked, sort of. I'm sure more traffic managed to pass through this way. I reckon if the drivers did follow strict priority rules, the whole city would grind to a halt.

[Max Preload]

Move along. Nothing new here....

And this is exactly why we need either much harder licence testing or compulsory tuition by qualified instructors (personally I prefer the former as the modern car instructors seem to be mostly incompetent - my father owned a driving school) - Otherwise people pass on only what they personally do themselves, not what is correct. It doesn't help that Police target nothing except speed either - doing so might limit damage when thye do crash but does very little to ensure that the crash doesn't happen in the first place, which further reduces damage...

I'd like to see compulsory theory and practical retesting every 10 years and any time you have an accident. The bonus is that some people would probably be so busy doing the retesting that they'd hardly ever be on the road.