Emergency braking

[The Stranger:Me]

Ienatch and Pridmore in their respective texts both advise two fingers for the front brake. This facilitates down changes but gives more than enough leverage on most modern bikes. If you are in danger of squashing your fingers, best you sort your bloody bike out.

Having witnessed thousands of emergency braking sessions we see not infrequently that those whom use 2 finger braking fail to drop the throttle prior to applying the brake. This results in unusually long stopping distances.
Invariably, when we point this out to them, all say they wont fail to drop the throttle, yet it still happens. The truely sacrey thing is, they know what's going to happen and when, yet still fail to drop the throttle.
IT'S NOT JUST NOOBS, infact more often than not it is the more experienced riders who make this mistake.
I have yet to see one rider using four finger braking make this mistake.


Code advises against using the rear brake in racing. "Everything but the front end is kept stable by the spinning rear wheel." He also says though, "a motorcycle will come to a full stop quicker with both brakes applied." Which latter quote most applies to an emergency stop.

Again, we see time and again during emergency braking with both brakes that as the rear unloads the rear wheel skids removing one gyroscope and contributing no stopping ability - i.e no reduction in stopping distance.

We often see an increase in stopping distances with both brakes over just the front due probably/possibly to the riders split focus.

I accept that in an ideal situation you would apply the rear a little before the front to suck the arse down a bit then as the weight transfers gradually release the rear to prevent it locking as you progressively apply more front, all in an instant with adrenalin pumping and your world flashing before you.
Theory vs reality. Reality will win out.

[cheshirecat]

Try this link

http://www.visordown.com/articles/vi...tml/v/3/SP/%22

[Sparrowhawk]

I admit, I locked my rear wheel the other day when a cage pulled across my path. My issue is my front disk is slightly warped - so braking hard with just the front gives a horrible feeling.

Other than a new disk (which maybe the best option), does anyone know of anywhere near dorkland that I could get the disk planed (if this will help)

[AlBundy]

Let me assure you, it lays well below the controlled use of your motorbikes controls, which is all I am advocating.

Where does this fit in then?

On the XT which is a single with significant engine braking I usually just bang it down a gear or 2 and drop the clutch, the rear may lock or chatter, so what?

It certainly isn't controlled, unless you think dropping the clutch and trying to control a sliding bike is controlled? Certainly not advice to give a newbie who, as you say, has so many other things to concentrate on... (PS: Debating from a newb advice perspective, I don't care whether you are gods gift to motarders...)

[Ocean1]

Try this link

http://www.visordown.com/articles/vi...tml/v/3/SP/%22

A few years ago when I worked for Crescent Suzuki we used to visit the 'Suzuki Village' at the BSB rounds. Within the village was the 'Street Magic' challenge which was a grassy obstacle course where visitors could set a time on the Suzuki Street Magic fun bikes. I'm ashamed we went to watch the hilarious spills, although I have to mention it was all low speed, the victims laughed and no one ever got hurt. The bikers that went down had zero feel when the front locked up so were eating cow-pat the first time they grabbed a handful of front brake.

I remember suggesting at the time that every one of the fallers should spend a day in a field to hone their feel for braking. And I still do, so if you're unsure of your braking skills get yourself in a field with a £100 Honda C50, do a bit of losing the front and have lots of fun. One day it could save your life.

Best advice I've heard on the subject.

Who's got a bit of turf we can set up and play on?

Wonder if someone in the industry can ignore the nit-pickin' liability issues long enough to stump up with a couple of old-but-reliable C90s...

[vifferman]

...my front disk is slightly warped - so braking hard with just the front gives a horrible feeling.

Other than a new disk (which maybe the best option), does anyone know of anywhere near dorkland that I could get the disk planed (if this will help)

Bike disks have too little thickness in them to be skimmed. If your disk is only slightly warped, there is a possibililty it can be straightened - I did this on my VF500, when one of the (secondhand) replacement disks had a bit of a wiggle in it.

[Sparrowhawk]

Bike disks have too little thickness in them to be skimmed. If your disk is only slightly warped, there is a possibililty it can be straightened - I did this on my VF500, when one of the (secondhand) replacement disks had a bit of a wiggle in it.

Thanks vifferman! Where would you go to get it straightened? Would you just go to a bike shop, or is a a specialist fing?

[dipshit]

On the XT which is a single with significant engine braking I usually just bang it down a gear or 2 and drop the clutch, the rear may lock or chatter, so what?

It means you are not riding smoothly and had momentarily lost control. What happens if you are on a wet road and entering a corner? What happens if you need to lose a lot of speed that may require going down 3 or 4 gears in very quick succession..??

Watch this vid and see what happens when you are not smooth with your down changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO8TuakquPQ

Just about each time the rider makes a down change, the bike momentarily becomes unsettled and provokes small slides. And even right at the end at 5:59 the rider loses control completely just after a down change and goes off the track.

This is just as important when riding on the road.

By blipping the throttle on down changes, everything is much much smoother and controlled. Down changes can be performed as rapidly and as successively as needed... when cornering... and on slippery wet roads without too much problem.

It should be a basic thing a learner gets a feel for early on so it becomes a natural habit. You can easily learn it by practising without even using the brakes for a start just by slowing down with engine braking alone and blipping on the down shifts.

[The Stranger:Me]

It means you are not riding smoothly and had momentarily lost control. What happens if you are on a wet road and entering a corner? What happens if you need to lose a lot of speed that may require going down 3 or 4 gears in very quick succession..??

Watch this vid and see what happens when you are not smooth with your down changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO8TuakquPQ

Just about each time the rider makes a down change, the bike momentarily becomes unsettled and provokes small slides. And even right at the end at 5:59 the rider loses control completely just after a down change and goes off the track.

This is just as important when riding on the road.

By blipping the throttle on down changes, everything is much much smoother and controlled. Down changes can be performed as rapidly and as successively as needed... when cornering... and on slippery wet roads without too much problem.

It should be a basic thing a learner gets a feel for early on so it becomes a natural habit. You can easily learn it by practising without even using the brakes for a start just by slowing down with engine braking alone and blipping on the down shifts.

Hmm, it seems that my comment "if the mood takes me" was not as obvious as I had hoped it would be. That was intended by me to indicate that it was not my primary MO, indeed it was intended to suggest that I would do that when I am in a particular frame of mind.
The first 2 options I gave were not so qualified.

I must admit, I had assumed noob road riding here. I had noted "I know a lot of people do, including many racers." in acknowledgement of it being an accepted practice.

I stand by what I say - it is unnecessary for general road riding and that it's not at all high on a list of priorities for a learner - particularly if it is taking concentration away from another more important skill, of which there are many significantly more important.

[The Stranger:Me]

Where does this fit in then?



It certainly isn't controlled, unless you think dropping the clutch and trying to control a sliding bike is controlled? Certainly not advice to give a newbie who, as you say, has so many other things to concentrate on... (PS: Debating from a newb advice perspective, I don't care whether you are gods gift to motarders...)

Damn it's early afternoon when you posted this and you are pissed and incoherent already.

[AlBundy]

Damn it's early afternoon when you posted this and you are pissed and incoherent already.

Aaah, the Stranger I remember. Resorting to personal attacks when he runs out of debate material. You should post 'FROTH' again... Since that was what you did last time we had had a debate/argument/discussion and you couldn't come up with anything usefull...

I would have expected you to have a library worth of material available, since you teach people but alas, no, personal attacks it is...

[Sparrowhawk]

Damn it's early afternoon when you posted this and you are pissed and incoherent already.

Aaah, the Stranger I remember. Resorting to personal attacks when he runs out of debate material. You should post 'FROTH' again... Since that was what you did last time we had had a debate/argument/discussion and you couldn't come up with anything usefull...

I would have expected you to have a library worth of material available, since you teach people but alas, no, personal attacks it is...

{{phone rings}} "Welcome to Kiwibiker Kindergaten. .... No ma'am, we let the three-year old boys bitch-fight whenever they want, it gets them ready for the workforce"

Keep it up guys, it's fun to watch!!

[The Stranger:Me]

Aaah, the Stranger I remember. Resorting to personal attacks when he runs out of debate material. You should post 'FROTH' again... Since that was what you did last time we had had a 'debate' and you couldn't come up with anything usefull...

Debate?
Learnt what an argument is yet have you?
When you do, perhaps we'll have a debate.

You mean you remember from last night when you went postal in yout rep comment about froth? Let it go, deep breaths.

[The Stranger:Me]

{{phone rings}} "Welcome to Kiwibiker Kindergaten. .... No ma'am, we let the three-year old boys bitch-fight whenever they want, it gets them ready for the workforce"

Keep it up guys, it's fun to watch!!

Growing up is way over rated.

[AlBundy]

Debate?
Learnt what an argument is yet have you?
When you do, perhaps we'll have a debate.

You mean you remember from last night when you went postal in yout rep comment about froth? Let it go, deep breaths.

I called you a Fuckwit, who cares?

If you think that's postal, you live in a small world...