Biker carnage on the increase (Stuff article)

[Katman]

I concur with the idea that cars cause the carnage,

Really?

I think you'll actually find the majority of the carnage is caused by motorcyclists with a Rossi Complex.

[toycollector10]

You're still twice as likely to drown in New Zealand than die riding a motorcycle.

114 a year on average according to the Water Safety NZ website.

[Katman]

You're still twice as likely to drown in New Zealand than die riding a motorcycle.

114 a year on average according to the Water Safety NZ website.

A whole lot more people go swimming than ride motorbikes.

[Tank]

Really?

I think you'll actually find the majority of the carnage is caused by motorcyclists with a Rossi Complex.

Mate - Im a slow as fuck rider (spent all last night with my bike mates taking the piss out of me about how slow I am - and they dont ride fast).

My wife rides a 125 scooter and is slower than a slow thing - she simply never speeds.

Yet both of us have had incidents caused by cars that could have taken our lives. Hell - I was hit when stationary at a give way and pushed into oncoming traffic.

There are plenty of people like us - who abide the speed limits, ride very carefully and are ATGATT bods - yet get killed due to the inattention of others.

Your views are based on your assumption that most bikers are idiots. While your cause has merit - your assumptions are fundamentally flawed.

[McJim]

Mate - Im a slow as fuck rider (spent all last night with my bike mates taking the piss out of me about how slow I am - and they dont ride fast).

My wife rides a 125 scooter and is slower than a slow thing - she simply never speeds.

Yet both of us have had incidents caused by cars that could have taken our lives. Hell - I was hit when stationary at a give way and pushed into oncoming traffic.

There are plenty of people like us - who abide the speed limits, ride very carefully and are ATGATT bods - yet get killed due to the inattention of others.

Your views are based on your assumption that most bikers are idiots. While your cause has merit - your assumptions are fundamentally flawed.

Ditto, the couple of prangs I've had have been slow speed and caused by a car. Kind of makes me dislike cars a bit.

[Shaun]

Have not read the whole thread sorry But

I am not a road rider, I am a racer, and when I see groups of riders riding together like they think they are racing cyclist, ie NO room in case, I neally spew at the stupity of it, I know I have fast reactions to shite situations, but most road riders do not, and only realy survive due to luck!

If you want to ride safer, give each other a lot more room, even get close to legal following distances, ( even at over 100mph if that is what you want do) so what if ya mate gets to the shop before ya, at least you got there.

[Katman]

Your views are based on your assumption that most bikers are idiots. While your cause has merit - your assumptions are fundamentally flawed.

I have never said most bikers are idiots - I have always said there are a large number of idiots that ride bikes.

I have never said car drivers never cause motorcycle accidents - I have always said the majority of motorcycle accidents are either the fault of the motorcyclists or there was, at the very least, the ability to avoid or reduce the severity of the accident by the motorcyclist improving their situational awareness.

[MacD]

Your views are based on your assumption that most bikers are idiots. While your cause has merit - your assumptions are fundamentally flawed.

No they're not. I can't understand why motorcyclists are so much in denial about the crash statistics. Perhaps it's a protective mechanism so that we can rationalise away the risks of riding?

The MOT publishes annual statistics, summarised in the Motorcycle Crash Factsheets which have been linked on this site numerous times, which show that (my italics):

For more serious crashes, the motorcyclist was more likely to have the primary responsibility for the crash. The motorcycle rider had the primary responsibility for nearly three-quarters of fatal motorcycle crashes, but the comparable figure for minor injury crashes was about half (50%).

Now people will debate the accuracy of these statistics and the method of analysis, but these are the numbers the politicians are seeing and will base their decisions on. Remember we now have a conservative, user-pays philosophy government which will have little interest in subsidising a minority of road users.

The "70% of motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers" mantra is an urban legend. It's in the order of 40%, still too high a figure, but that means ~60% are primarily under our control.

[devnull]

No they're not. I can't understand why motorcyclists are so much in denial about the crash statistics. Perhaps it's a protective mechanism so that we can rationalise away the risks of riding?

The MOT publishes annual statistics, summarised in the Motorcycle Crash Factsheets which have been linked on this site numerous times, which show that (my italics):



Now people will debate the accuracy of these statistics and the method of analysis, but these are the numbers the politicians are seeing and will base their decisions on. Remember we now have a conservative, user-pays philosophy government which will have little interest in subsidising a minority of road users.

The "70% of motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers" mantra is an urban legend. It's in the order of 40%, still too high a figure, but that means ~60% are primarily under our control.

There's still an MOT?

I'd say that the crash statistics here would be similar to those overseas.
When we look at overseas data, we see that LTSA is very selective in what they publish i.e. they introduce bias

See http://www.motorcycle-accidents.com/pages/stats.html

6. In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.

And:

http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-preventi...fety/WCM001268

Intersection crashes which usually involves the motorcyclist with legal right of way hitting a vehicle. In many cases the drivers defence is claiming not to have seen the motorcyclist.

[Mikkel]

I'm willing to put money on that we won't see any significant change in these statistics before there are imposed higher requirements upon getting a license and some sort of review mechanism on your motoring behaviour (could be compulsory 3rd party, could be something else...).

Considering the drowning statistics, maybe there should be put some laws into place dictating how and where to swim and police hours should allocated to combat this menace to society... j/k

[ManDownUnder]

Really?

I think you'll actually find the majority of the carnage is caused by motorcyclists with a Rossi Complex.

Actually fair question... on reflection I made the statement based on my little part of the world. I don't ride under Rossi's influence making the major dangers around me 4 wheeled.

Overall I'd still question your claim ...

[dipshit]

There's still an MOT?
I'd say that the crash statistics here would be similar to those overseas.

Well why don't you click on the link MacD provided and actually find out.

When we look at overseas data, we see that LTSA is very selective in what they publish i.e. they introduce bias

Googleing until you find some country's statistics that don't look quite as bad doesn't change what happens in this country. A lot depends on how much city/urban environment there is versus more open less congested country roads.

[dipshit]

Actually fair question... on reflection I made the statement based on my little part of the world. I don't ride under Rossi's influence making the major dangers around me 4 wheeled.

So you are going to make a guess at NZ statistics based on you and your wife's experiences?

Overall I'd still question your claim ...

His claim has a bit more basis than your one you just made up...
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

[Ixion]

A whole lot more people go swimming than ride motorbikes.

Debateable. More people may swim on occasion, but how many people go swimming every day? Many motorcyclists ride every day.

[dipshit]

And:

http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-preventi...fety/WCM001268

Intersection crashes which usually involves the motorcyclist with legal right of way hitting a vehicle. In many cases the drivers defence is claiming not to have seen the motorcyclist.

And why quote just half of it? This is what it says...

"Statistics indicate that the two most common crash situations involving motorcyclists are:

• Intersection crashes which usually involves the motorcyclist with legal right of way hitting a vehicle. In many cases the drivers defence is claiming not to have seen the motorcyclist.

• Single vehicle crashes where a motorcyclist loses control and runs of the road."


Keep in mind that intersection crashes with cars in built-up areas tend to result in minor injuries.

Single vehicle crashers tend to happen on the open road at higher speeds and result in more major injuries and fatales.

This is largely why it is rider error in 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents.