Biker carnage on the increase (Stuff article)

[JMemonic]

Which Stuff is reporting as:

Middle-aged men dominated motorcycle crash figures with eight deaths in 2008 compared with three the previous year.

"Middle-aged men are rediscovering their youth on a powerful bike. It reflects a trend around the rest of the world," he said.

"Often they are inexperienced riders on a new high-powered motorcycle," Erasmus said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4807154a11.html

Bugger that they dont mention that 4 of those were one accident where the camper crossed the centre line, and 3 from the last crash here that makes 7 of the 8 of which 5 were caused by fatigue so I am just guessing as I cant find the details another vehicle was involved in the other fatality as it difficult to as a deceased rider if they were tired.

[tri boy]

and the deaths continue........
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4807581a19715.html

[piston broke]

His claim has a bit more basis than your one you just made up...
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf[/QUOTE]

so,if i read this right,bikes make up 10% of deaths,
and 8% of road users.
so when you consider how much less protection we have.are we really over represented in fatalities?

but yes it isn't good to see a rising trend.

[dipshit]

so,if i read this right,bikes make up 10% of deaths,and 8% of road users.

No, motorcyclists make up 10% of the deaths and 8% of all injuries, yet we only make up the 2% of road users.

Edit; And on warm sunny summer weekends, motorcyclists quite often make close to 50% of the road fatalities for the weekend. (or public holiday weekends)

[toycollector10]

Surfcaster on the rocks with his back to the waves: $40 instant fine!

Ten year old out of their depth not displaying FWF (five widths freestyle sticker): $50 instant fine!

Caught on the water without a life jacket: $100 instant fine.

Floating on Lake Wakatipu on a Warehouse inflatable with only beer bottles as additional floatation aids: $200 instant fine!

River rafting with a Warehouse inflatable aeroplane: $300 instant fine!

I get it, idiots on/in the water die too. I see an opening here for the fun police and a great revenue stream for the gumm'int.

[devnull]

And why quote just half of it? This is what it says...

"Statistics indicate that the two most common crash situations involving motorcyclists are:

• Intersection crashes which usually involves the motorcyclist with legal right of way hitting a vehicle. In many cases the drivers defence is claiming not to have seen the motorcyclist.

• Single vehicle crashes where a motorcyclist loses control and runs of the road."


Keep in mind that intersection crashes with cars in built-up areas tend to result in minor injuries.

Single vehicle crashers tend to happen on the open road at higher speeds and result in more major injuries and fatales.

This is largely why it is rider error in 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents.

I'll be sure to remember that, though I wish you'd tell the rest of the population. I've seen enough deaths at intersections - guess different people place different meanings on the word "minor"

When I was an ambo, I seemed to be attending a lot of RTC's (road traffic crash - it isn't an accident) involving bikes being hit by cars....

That crash research site was Australian - looks like NZ must have absolute angels in cages compared to other countries, always giving way at intersections, being attentive to traffic & conditions...

Sorry Tank - the cage that hit you while stopped must've been an Aussie tourist - Kiwis don't drive like that

[scumdog]

Surfcaster on the rocks with his back to the waves: $40 instant fine!

Ten year old out of their depth not displaying FWF (five widths freestyle sticker): $50 instant fine!

Caught on the water without a life jacket: $100 instant fine.

Floating on Lake Wakatipu on a Warehouse inflatable with only beer bottles as additional floatation aids: $200 instant fine!

River rafting with a Warehouse inflatable aeroplane: $300 instant fine!

I get it, idiots on/in the water die too. I see an opening here for the fun police and a great revenue stream for the gumm'int.

bugger them all, let 'em sink, save $$$$$$

[scumdog]

I
When I was an ambo, I seemed to be attending a lot of RTC's (road traffic crash - it isn't an accident) involving bikes being hit by cars....

But who was at fault in these cases??

[Jantar]

No, motorcyclists make up 10% of the deaths and 8% of all injuries, yet we only make up the 2% of road users.

Edit; And on warm sunny summer weekends, motorcyclists quite often make close to 50% of the road fatalities for the weekend. (or public holiday weekends)

I think you need to read that report again.

The very first paragraph in the report

In 2007, 41 motorcyclists1 were killed and a further 1,336 were injured in road crashes. This was ten percent of all deaths and eight percent of all reported injuries on our roads.

The last sentence in the paragraph imediately following the death and injury graph on page 1.

Motorcyclists now make up only eight percent of all road users injured, compared to 21 percent in the early and mid-1980s.

So motorcyclists do make up 8% of all road users, and suffer 8% of all injuries. Seems pretty consistent to me.

Let's just take a deep breath for minute. We are all on the same side here, ie we want to reduce motorcyle accidents. So how about we focus on the causes of those accidents, and see what each individual rider can do to reduce them.

The stats are quite conclusive that in single vehicle accidents, the rider is almost always to blame. So maybe this is the area where we need to focus the most with better training.

The stats also show that in multi vehicle accidents, it is usually the other driver to blame. This may be the area where riding experience can be more productive than simple rider training. Let us also not lose sight of the fact that we can also benefit by learning from other riders mistakes. This can only happen if those mistakes are discussed in an open manner without assigning blame, but rather just looking at causes.

In aviation, there is a reporting system in place where pilots can report incidents, whether or not there is an accident, and lessons can be learnt and recomendations made. But no repercussions are ever dealt out. It is more important that pilots can feel that they can pass on their experiences without fear of penalty.

Maybe, as motorcyclists, we should be trying to achieve the same. Encourage discussion of incidents without sermons, blame or ridicule. By encouraging such discussion we may be able to achieve a positive outcome.

[Katman]

So motorcyclists do make up 8% of all road users, and suffer 8% of all injuries. Seems pretty consistent to me.

Comprehension's not your strong point, is it?

The report says we make up 8% of all road users injured.

It doesn't say we make up 8% of all road users.

[Jantar]

You are right. The actual percentage is much higher.

From http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...ICENCE2006.pdf

As at July 2006, The number of class 1 licence holders is 3004196 and class 6 licence holders number 476474. That is 13.6%

However once again we aren't given all the statistics. Many licence holders have both class of licence. Some who have both seldom ride a bike and others seldom drive a car. They don't break the statistics down far enough to give an accurate picture.

[Katman]

From http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

As at July 2006, The number of class 1 licence holders is 3004196 and class 6 licence holders number 476474. That is 13.6%

Reading obviously isn't my strong point.

Care to point out where they give those figures in that link?

[Jantar]

Page 3 on that section, or page 173 of the entire document.

[MarkH]

Is anyone here capable of putting together statistically valid results (i.e. those that actually demonstrate significance in their results).

I'm curious to see the following correlations:
* injuries per 10,000 motorcycles/annum
* deaths per 10,000 motorcycles/annum
* injuries per 10,000 bicycles/annum
* deaths per 10,000 bicycles/annum

I want what I can't have:
* injuries per million kms travelled
* deaths per million kms travelled
and I want these figures for cars, bicycles and motorcycles - also broken down by gender/age/experience.

I am also curious about deaths per million hours of riding vs deaths per million hours swimming/rugby/horse riding/etc.
As interesting as the statistics we have available are - I prefer to take them with a grain of salt. They are very incomplete and provide only some of the necessary information to make any real conclussions about anything.

Even looking at deaths vs number of registered vehicles is of limited value. If a person owns a bike and a car and drives the car to work 80% of the time, then the petrol price goes up and he starts riding the bike to work 80% of the time - risks change, but the stats wont reflect that fact!

So, please everyone - don't make out like the statistics prove anything!

[Katman]

Page 3 on that section,

Really?

Fucked if I can see them.