When bikers kill bikers.

[Hitcher]

No, I think there's an equally valuable lesson there for all of us.

I would only agree if I knew that the scenario presented for my edification was an accurate one.

And the only message that can be taken is "don't do anything stupid, ride beyond the conditions or your ability, and be respectful of all other road users at all times."

[Katman]

Whilst it is sad that it appears that a motorcyclist may have caused the death of another motorcyclists, let's not go jumping to any conclusions about it being a trend.

I'm only aware of it happening twice in recent times.

Compare that with motorcycle v car statistics.

Don't forget the countless near misses.

[Usarka]

I was once part of the decay.

I now prefer to be part of the cure.

But would you (then) have listened to you (now)?

[riffer]

Don't forget the countless near misses.

Oh go on...

show me the stats of near misses between bikes compared to near misses between bikes and cars.

What a specious argument Steve. You can do better than that.

[Katman]

show me the stats of near misses between bikes compared to near misses between bikes and cars.

There's been plenty of examples given on here.

They get conveniently ignored.

[riffer]

There's been plenty of examples given on here.

They get conveniently ignored.

Yes, but still not enough to prove that bikes v bikes is more of a threat than bikes v cars.

I still don't understand the point of your original post. Do you believe we have enough evidence to prove that it's a growing threat?

[Hitcher]

They get conveniently ignored.

I certainly find them tedious. At one stage it felt like every second Fatt Max thread was an "oh fuck, I nearly got taken out" revelation. There are times when one has a measure of sympathy for the poor long-suffering car drivers out there.

[dipshit]

Whilst it is sad that it appears that a motorcyclist may have caused the death of another motorcyclists, let's not go jumping to any conclusions about it being a trend.

I'm only aware of it happening twice in recent times.

Compare that with motorcycle v car statistics.

It isn't just bike vs bike. How about all the accidents of bikes all on their very own.

75% of motorcycle deaths in NZ for the last few years were the fault of the rider.

That means we can all improve our odds if we think about how we can ride more safely rather than blaming car drivers for our problems.

[Katman]

Yes, but still not enough to prove that bikes v bikes is more of a threat than bikes v cars.

I still don't understand the point of your original post. Do you believe we have enough evidence to prove that it's a growing threat?

I'm not just talking about motorcyclists killing other motorcyclists (or pillions).

Motorcyclists killing themselves due to a disregard for their onroad behaviour is going to see the death of Motorcycling as we currently know it.

[Usarka]

just got an infraction for off topic due to a comment about smoking. Woohooo my very first

My original but subtle point was 10's of thousands of people die per annum from smoking and/or pollution related illness.

How many people die on the road each year?

Is the huge focus on road deaths proportionate with initiatives being undertaken for other forms of death in this country?

Right, now definitely enough serious shirley.

[Stan]

Not wanting to drag the thread back on-topic (despite Katman's obvious attractions) but he is right about the avoiding responsibility thing.

I noticed that even on the Akoroa crash thread, some people were trying to find a way to blame cagers for it.

If you want to survive out there, you have to take responsibility for your own safety, right or wrong. Lets say some wanker pulls out in front of you; more often than not, you could have predicted it. You saw him at the give-way sign and you never saw him look at you? Your fingers should have been tightening on the brake right then. I think some of us take the he's-in-the-wrong-so-I-don't-need-to-do-anything attitude which is OK if you're arguing over a movie queue but loses its attraction as you're flying over a Subaru.

[Grahameeboy]

just got an infraction for off topic due to a comment about smoking. Woohooo my very first

My original but subtle point was 10's of thousands of people die per annum from smoking and/or pollution related illness.

How many people die on the road each year?

Is the huge focus on road deaths proportionate with initiatives being undertaken for other forms of death in this country?

Right, now definitely enough serious shirley.

True...I mean if it is all about needless deaths then why don't the Govt ban smoking.....or drinking.....

[Katman]

My original but subtle point was 10's of thousands of people die per annum from smoking and/or pollution related illness.

You are aware of the anti-smoking laws, aren't you?

There's no reason to believe that the government won't take even further steps in the future.

[Hitcher]

There is a saying,if ifs and buts were candy we would all have a merry Christmas.
I never dwell on what never happened.

I thought the saying was that if we all pulled together we could have a white christmas.

Best we not dwell too much on that one either...

[riffer]

It isn't just bike vs bike. How about all the accidents of bikes all on their very own.

75% of motorcycle deaths in NZ for the last few years were the fault of the rider.

That means we can all improve our odds if we think about how we can ride more safely rather than blaming car drivers for our problems.

Sure we can. I doubt it'll make a blind bit of difference to the average motorist. Then we'll be talking about how they want to ban bikes because they aren't safe because idiot cagers keep running into them.

I'm not just talking about motorcyclists killing other motorcyclists (or pillions).

Motorcyclists killing themselves due to a disregard for their onroad behaviour is going to see the death of Motorcycling as we currently know it.

Maybe. But car drivers seem to be just as stupid and no-one's talking about getting rid of them in a hurry are they (well except for the Greens, whom no-one listens to).

Face it guys. The road toll is down. The powers that be are cracking down massively on speed (it's the Police's main focus for the new year, just for a change. We can't keep riding like idiots forever. We'll end up fined off the road or dead (and yes some innocents will suffer if that happens).

But I think crude oil will run out before they ban bikes because a minority ride like muppets.