Cornering - To brake or not to brake

[Katman]

Well I can take the corner at 120k, and he's taking it at 85k. I guess I could ask him to slow down, but he already knows how to nana a corner - why not teach him the correct procedure, rather than just prevent him from learning? He is well in control of his emotional state, and well inside his ability. So thats why.


Steve

Correct procedure?

My idea of correct procedure is learning gradually as you gain experience.

Trying to become Rossi overnight just aint gonna work.

[blue eyed savage]

i kiss the mirrors, look where i want to go get in there nice and deep like i mean Brake deep into the corner ass 1/2 of the seat and wait up the outside peg then give it shit.
and yes i am the man.

[blue eyed savage]

just kidding. take it ez. brake in a strate line works well and slow speed into the corner and u cant go wrong. well to badly wrong. ride heeps and ride with mates brings ur skill level up faster to.

[scumdog]

Meh, I just go around the corners.

To do otherwise is asking for trouble.

[idb]

Meh, I just go around the corners.

To do otherwise is asking for trouble.

...otherwise they might as well not be there...

[scumdog]

...otherwise they might as well not be there...

Corners or troubles???

[idb]

Corners or troubles???

Crikey...8,000 posts SD!!!!

[scumdog]

Crikey...8,000 posts SD!!!!

Jumping Jehosephats Batman, that's more posts than the national grid!!!!!!

[KiwiKat]

Don't break the corners, they are hard to fix.

Graham Allardices (recommended AAA+) book is fantastic for understanding riding basics in NZ. Personally I find that every other more experienced rider goes too fast through corners for me. They will brake after I do or use engine braking. I have to brake earlier or carefully ride the brake particularly down hill.

I hate the broken up surfaces on sharp corners and the bike skating.

[jrandom]

Personally I find that every other more experienced rider goes to fast through corners.

Yeah, those more experienced riders are cunts, what with going 'too fast' through corners and all that.

[pritch]

If my face is near a mirror I am too far forward on my bike.

The "kiss the mirror" quote refers to getting your head (and body) right over to the inside of the corner. My current avatar sort of illustrates the correct position, even though he hasn't got a mirror. He is supposed to be quite good at what he does though...

If you look at most of the action shots of KBers their head is over the wrong side of the bike. This probably results from them trying to get a knee down. They sort of swivel their arse and push the bike down.

But hey I'm old, I don't even know why I'm interested in any of this stuff

[stormerUK]

Cornering is what biking is all about – It’s the activity we enjoy a lot and is probably the most rewarding experience when we get it right. Many riders however, seem to come to grief by getting it wrong; as accident statistics seem to indicate.
Let us look at cornering and apply the system of motorcycle control as described in Roadcraft.
The System – Information – Position – Speed – Gear – Acceleration
What do we need to know:
Where does the road go next?
How sharp is the bend?
How far can I see ahead clearly?
What is the road surface like?
What dangers could there be?
Can I stop safely if necessary?
Getting the approach to a bend right is vital and makes cornering safer.
Approaching a bend – Information – look for all the clues – use extended forward observations – can you see where the road goes next? What’s behind as we prepare – know your Highway Code to understand signs; road markings and chevrons etc. Take into account the road surface and camber. Consider the actions of the traffic ahead – are they braking? How fast are oncoming vehicles travelling when exiting the bend? Consider what hidden dangers may lurk ahead just out of view – junctions, slower vehicles, pedestrians, cyclists, horses etc.
Limit point – the furthest point we can see the road surface ahead where the verges appear to converge. As we approach does that point remain static or is it moving away already?
Guide – while the limit point remains static we should be slowing down. If its moving away we can go through the bend at that same speed.
By using the limit point we can assess the tightness of the bend and have a guide to the safe speed to be at when we reach the entry point to the bend. Therefore, on a tighter bend the limit point will remain static longer – we will be reducing speed for longer and should have slowed down more before the entry point, while bearing in mind the golden rule – always be able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear (on your own side of the road).
Entry point – where you start to turn the bike into the bend.
Guide – this will be the slowest point of the bend with maximum safe forward view
So using the system, we need to be in the correct position for maximum forward view while considering stability and grip and using safety as the overriding rule. The optimum line must be conceded if that could bring us into conflict with oncoming vehicles or mean riding over gravel or potholes for instance.
We need to be at the correct speed by using all the information, good forward observations and limit point analysis. We need to be in the correct gear for best engine response to allow some speed adjustment with sensitive throttle control in the bend and the bike should be well settled before we reach the entry point, and we should be relaxed.
Guide – most bikes will give good response at about ½ way up the rev range
This response will help the bike to turn and allow better control – holding a wide smooth line through the bend. Do not apex the bend unless you have a clear view well ahead, and there is an advantage to be gained.
Counter steering – positive steering input by applying pressure to the bars is required to get the bike from upright to the correct lean angle for the corner. The tighter the bend or the higher the approach speed will determine the amount of force required to get the bike to turn at the entry point with the objective of getting the bike into the desired attitude in one movement and then controlling the bike on the throttle through the rest of the bend. You already do this or the bike wouldn’t turn, but a conscious effort at the correct moment is very effective, and necessary when dealing with a series of bends or an island where we require the bike to go from one side to the other and back again in a smooth controlled manner.
Exit point – look for the end of the bend where the road straightens out. The end of a solid white line gives us a clue, and as the forward view opens up chase the limit point (acceleration) as it moves away bringing the bike to the desired road position again.
The way we deal with each bend should not be taken in isolation but as part of the overall riding plan. Good forward planning will help us link hazards and give a smoother flowing line.
Control the fear – use your head! Cornering on a bike is not a natural activity – just the opposite in fact! If we think we’re going too quickly for a particular bend our natural reaction will be to tense up, grab for the brake and target fixate on the perceived danger. The bike will want to stand up and go where we are looking, this is our survival instinct taking over. To corner safely and effectively we must do just the opposite of what our instinct tells us to do. We must relax and look away from the danger to where we actually want the bike to go. A positive push on the bars is required while applying some power. This technique requires correct understanding and enough practice to make it second nature, so that when a ‘moment’ occurs we will have the presence of mind to use the technique confidently. If we allow the fear factor to take over things will probably go wrong, but by applying the correct technique we should get round the bend successfully. We tend to be the limiting factor as the modern bike is a very capable machine.
Guide – so in essence we turn the bike positively, look where we want to go, and apply some power to offset the reduction in speed caused by turning the bike, and drive through the bend smoothly on an opening throttle
Getting a series of bends right is a great feeling and is reason enough to make every effort to improve our cornering skills.

[WierNixie]

I have read all of this with interest, as cornering is not something that I do confidently (yet). I have a question for the bikers in the know.

Cornering downhill, with sharp corner. For some reason, my instinctive action is to brake, change down and corner more slowly. (And I mean S L O W L Y). I do go out to practice, however I am convinced that my technique is incorrect in this situation, and secondly that a driver is going to hit me up the 'botty' because I have slowed down too much. Even scooters have a better technique than I do going downhill!

Advice anyone?

[vifferman]

Downhill corners are the nemesis of a lot of riders. (I myself prefer uphill corners). The thing is that there's a lot more weight on the front end, which changes the steering geometry (sharpens it up) and the handling characteristics (the centre of mass is further forward), and loads up the front tyre. In theory, this should make tight, downhill corners better than uphill corners (as long as you're not leaning hard on the bars).
I suspect it's one of those "it's all in the head" things. Apart from psyching yourself into it, and maybe making sure your weight is on the inside of the bike, and possibly leaning back a bit to even out the weight distribution, there should be no real difference in how you tackle these corners. By slowing, braking, etc., you're quite possibly making things worse. I guess you just need to practice, practice, practice, and get your confidence up.

[The Stranger:Me]

I have read all of this with interest, as cornering is not something that I do confidently (yet). I have a question for the bikers in the know.

Cornering downhill, with sharp corner. For some reason, my instinctive action is to brake, change down and corner more slowly. (And I mean S L O W L Y). I do go out to practice, however I am convinced that my technique is incorrect in this situation, and secondly that a driver is going to hit me up the 'botty' because I have slowed down too much. Even scooters have a better technique than I do going downhill!

Advice anyone?

Ok, I know, broken record, but I would suggest the RRRS course on the 18th of Jan as a good place to start.