State of Superbike in NZ

[Bren_chch]

Red Fenton (www.triple-r-superbike.co.nz) has suggested to MZN that they should perhaps be thinking of a privateers class which would be run with the Superbikes or 'factory riders' as some like to call them. This privateers class would have red number boards and would be scored separately to the superbikes.

Privateers would have options to change and run:
A slipon Muffler
Front and Rear Suspension
Airfilter
Tires (Not sure on tires yet as only a small amount of money saved by using supersport tires as opposed to slicks.)

Any other thoughts to add to this?

[CHOPPA]

Sweet ill make my backrounds red!

[slowpoke]

There seem to be two issues at play here:

1/ Club grids are burgeoning, with full fields at the Vic Club rounds, yet nobody turns up to the Nationals round. All National classes are pretty ordinary compared to a club turn out. The numbers may be slightly up when the Nationals come North but last year showed that most racers will prefer a root canal to racing at the country's supposedly marquee event. Contrast that with Wanganui where a lot of racer's are prepared to say goodbye to family on Christmas day and head off racing.

2/ The other problem is the low number's of Superbikes nationally. Vic Club would have a full grid in Superbike but probably 3/4's would be cross entered 600's. Same at the TRRS, to get TV coverage they had to pad the grid with 600's as only 10 (I think) turned up, despite chocka grids in other classes.

Some questions to ponder:

How can people say Superbikes are too expensive if they are prepared to race 2 classes on a 600? A 600 costs the same to prepare as a 1000 and even if you say tyres last twice as long (which they don't ) the extra maintenance/wear and tear would make it more expensive over a season.

Why don't people race Superbikes? My feeling is it's a direct result of actively discouraging people to progress to a Superbike by only getting half the racing compared to other classes.

Why are racers prepared to travel from Wellywood to Puke and Auckland to Manfeild for a club round but aren't fronting for even their local National's round?

[ArcherWC]

A 600 costs the same to prepare as a 1000

hahahahahahahahaha not even close to the same to prepare a competative F1 bike

[CHOPPA]

hahahahahahahahaha not even close to the same to prepare a competative F1 bike

My bike is competitive and except for the purchase price it cost less to set up then the 600, slicks are cheaper to buy and last longer. It hasnt even been tuned...

[steveyb]

IMHO outside of the unwillingness to spend the money, which is everyones personal choice, I feel that there is a lot of 'talking people out of it' going on on this site and elsewhere.
All of the negative talk really does discourage people, no, really it does.
It doesn't make them think harder about it, it just puts them off.

All of the front half of any class at VMCC could safely ride at NZSBK in their class and by virtue of doing so they would improve their riding, meet some new people (from the SI etc) and have a good time.

Unless they are talked out of it.

If you aren't a distributor backed rider then your chances of winning are slim, but SO WHAT??? Half of the game is the result, the other half is just giving it a go and enjoying the experience. If you improve your personal best times then has that not been a success? And also don't forget, the distributor backed riders weren't once upon a time were they? You could just be them one day if you try hard enough.

I personally favour making the NZSBK Superbike and 600 classes Superstock classes based on international Superstock 1000 and Superstock 600 rules (which however I must confess I am assuming to be minimal mods, but have not actually had a look, so apologies if they turn out to be more modded than our rules!!).

One of the many up sides to doing this is that our bikes become internationally relevant. Teams can then just crate their bikes and go to any WSBK event where Superstock run and attempt to qualify and race. The classes are relevant in Aust, UK and USA and maybe Asia also.

The comment above about SBK numbers at club events is also very relevant. At VMCC there would be only 5 or so SBK bikes, and they are by and large simply 1000cc roadbikes with minimal mods, not full on SBK bikes, so actually closer to Superstock already?

So, there is also a VERY good case to be made for instigating the Privateers Cup concept here also. It works very well in the UK, but I would fear that while in the UK the minority are Privateer Cup bikes in BSB, here it would be the other way around. But maybe that is a good thing in that eventually the market would demonstrate that that level of machine is what the market prefers to compete with.

My 2c worth.

Steve

[Matt Bleck]

Red Fenton (www.triple-r-superbike.co.nz) has suggested to MZN that they should perhaps be thinking of a privateers class which would be run with the Superbikes or 'factory riders' as some like to call them. This privateers class would have red number boards and would be scored separately to the superbikes.

Privateers would have options to change and run:
A slipon Muffler
Front and Rear Suspension
Airfilter
Tires (Not sure on tires yet as only a small amount of money saved by using supersport tires as opposed to slicks.)

Any other thoughts to add to this?

Sounds good alright!!

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, you and I agree on almost everything regarding bike racing. I think the money invested in tyres and suspension is a SMALL price to pay opposed to the dangers of not having good gear.

In regards to this particular comment about MNZ, I can not disagree more. I personaly feel that MNZ are by far the biggest reason street bike racing is on a very serious down turn. There's too much influence from the "old guard" and loyalty to the big sponsors.

Mate, I've raised issues with MNZ in the past, only to be ignored. During that period, I had a number of PMs and emails from those in support outlining some truly disgusting one sided rulings and decisions on MNZs part.

I've said it privately to a few people (most of whom aggreed) and now I'll say it very publicly.

New Zealand needs a renegade authority to provide a proper, realistic and truly unbiased alternative to MNZ sanctioned events. And this needs to happen soon.


This statement will undoubtably cost me one day, but bugger it, things need to change.

Actually no, there is an autocratic end of MNZ and a crusade by same to make a wholesale change whilst choosing to ignore the technical facts. There are in fact some VERY good people within MNZ. The problem is fixable but Im not saying how because Ive already been grizzled at for having the temerity to publicly express an opposing viewpoint, suffice to say it hasnt been lost on me ( and others ) that the time honoured Joseph Goebbels technique of mass hysteria is being employed.
As for the major sponsors ( the distributors etc ) ...well without them it would be little better than club racing. I applaud their historical contribution and we cannot afford to scare them away, they dont have to do it and in fact the money a couple of them put in ( one in particular ) is disproportionately high to the return. Someone in a high position and who should know better scathingly referred to it as peanuts.
Slowpokes and SteveYBs posts really probe into the issues and suggestions such as Reds ( Peter Fenton ) makes sense. Superstock and sub ''privateer'' classes within, as much as it doesnt present a danger ( lap time percentage disparity tolerance )

[jrandom]

Paul Pav's definitely not on my Christmas card list, but I'm hoping that someone shouts louder than him and keeps me in business.

Fingers crossed, eh!

Superstock and sub ''privateer'' classes within, as much as it doesnt present a danger...

I really do hope that something like that comes to pass.

[Robert Taylor]

Fingers crossed, eh!





I really do hope that something like that comes to pass.

I didnt mention any names! But common sense must prevail over ''a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.'' I think a number of people have come up with some very sensible suggestions that strike a balance between the neccessity for machine balance / safety and the need to trim costs. No -one argues against trimming costs.

[svr]

I didnt mention any names! But common sense must prevail ... a number of people have come up with some very sensible suggestions that strike a balance between the neccessity for machine balance / safety and the need to trim costs. No -one argues against trimming costs.

Ha! You should remind Pav himself of the monumental tankslappers he had over the hill at Puke on a proddy FZR 1000. There were no steering dampers back then in production racing `to keep costs down'. That's how the ACU regarded the safety vs costs thing back then.

[Robert Taylor]

Ha! You should remind Pav himself of the monumental tankslappers he had over the hill at Puke on a proddy FZR 1000. There were no steering dampers back then in production racing `to keep costs down'. That's how the ACU regarded the safety vs costs thing back then.

It would be great that you could articulate that directly to all and sundry of like mind, but bear in mind that the tankslappers are not fixed by the steering damper, they are masked. The cause is elsewhere.
But I fear any articulation will meet a stony silence, there are none so deaf as those who will not listen!

[Robert Taylor]

Fingers crossed, eh!





I really do hope that something like that comes to pass.

Revisiting your post ( after clearing my mind of a whole load of work ) demonstrates just how low some people will go to satisfy their perverted minds. I did not blurt out that full text and you damn well know it. An apology is in order but Im not going to hold my breath in anticipation of same. Perhaps its time again to have compulsory military training to knock the living daylights out of those too predisposed to being smart alecs....I saw that happen to a few when I was in the military, they were straightened out very quickly.
Of course the said person is accusing me ( and others ) of having vested interests, but didnt have the courtesy to either consult or actually fully understand the issues. Enough said.

[jrandom]

Perhaps its time again to have compulsory military training to knock the living daylights out of those too predisposed to being smart alecs...

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
- Isaac Asimov

Of course the said person is accusing me ( and others ) of having vested interests...

Are you saying you don't?

I bet you could quickly name, to well within an order of magnitude, an annual dollar figure that you'd lose in revenue if MNZ-sanctioned racing stopped being all about aftermarket suspension.

Your points regarding safety, etc, aren't silly at all. But the conflict of interest is still there, and bears being pointed out.

I do note, by the way, that your tune regarding the necessity of cost reduction in roadracing has changed over recent months, with your arguments now focusing on the real issues of cost and safety rather than being primarily ideological rants about the link between communism and the parlous quality of factory suspension. You deserve due credit for that.

[Robert Taylor]

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
- Isaac Asimov



Are you saying you don't?

I bet you could quickly name, to well within an order of magnitude, an annual dollar figure that you'd lose in revenue if MNZ-sanctioned racing stopped being all about aftermarket suspension.

Your points regarding safety, etc, aren't silly at all. But the conflict of interest is still there, and bears being pointed out.

I do note, by the way, that your tune regarding the necessity of cost reduction in roadracing has changed over recent months, with your arguments now focusing on the real issues of cost and safety rather than being primarily ideological rants about the link between communism and the parlous quality of factory suspension. You deserve due credit for that.

1 ) Like most good Torys Im anti pc and hanker for the sterner disciplines of the past ( Im being deadly serious )

2) We'd probably make more money out of illegal and non detectable mods. In fact we make more money when there are Labour Governments because everything is a spendathon, but know its not sustainable.

3) In fact Im still beating to the same drum re running high quality tunable suspension. And for what its worth Ohlins and WP suspension would cost less if the socialist countries that they are produced in didnt tax those industries so heavily!!