Letter in Saturday's Harold - Police to target motorcyclists

[vtec]

I don't know if it's my new VFR400R or the fact that I've just moved out to dodgy Henderson. But in the last few days, I've been pulled over for no reason once, and tailed by plainclothes police cars twice on the motorway. Everytime I knew they were there and was riding accordingly, but still I'm feeling very nervous and very targeted right now.

First cop that pulled me over, seemed stern but then told me he was just checking it was me on the bike, ie. it wasn't stolen. Which actually made me feel better. But I can't help but think that was simply to make me feel better after he followed me for a few k's waiting for me to do something stupid (which I often like to do).

12 extra deaths from 16000 in one year seems acceptable to me. There's plenty of idiots who ride bikes. And you can't tell me those deaths were all the fault of the riders. It's just sad when it's noobs or born agains taken out because they were expecting cars to actually give way. If you don't expect anyone to give way, then you usually do Ok and can avoid 99% of people trying to maim you in their cars.

[cs363]

I don't know if it's my new VFR400R or the fact that I've just moved out to dodgy Henderson. But in the last few days, I've been pulled over for no reason once, and tailed by plainclothes police cars twice on the motorway. Everytime I knew they were there and was riding accordingly, but still I'm feeling very nervous and very targeted right now.

First cop that pulled me over, seemed stern but then told me he was just checking it was me on the bike, ie. it wasn't stolen. Which actually made me feel better. But I can't help but think that was simply to make me feel better after he followed me for a few k's waiting for me to do something stupid (which I often like to do).

Bit of a difficult one that - I've got a mate in Auckland that has a mint (un-boyracer'd) Mitsubishi Lancer Tommi Makinen Edition Evo 6.5, he's selling it for that exact reason - he's sick of being pulled over and checked out by the cops or shadowed etc all the time.
But like I said to him, if little knob-jockey-johnny the homie car thief had just pinched your Lancer you'd be bloody glad the cops were doing their job......
Not really the cops fault in this instance, they're doing what we pay them for - the blame lies with the low lifes that steal cars and bikes and force us to spend heaps on security and insurance.

[MotoGirl]

Whilst I agree with our right to decide and would hate to see the use of gear enforced, I do think that Traffic Police taking a proactive approach and pointing out the errors of such riders ways to them might be a good idea.

For instance, as an experienced rider if I choose knowing the risks to ride down to the dairy wearing jeans and a t-shirt then that should be up to me. I think the really worrying thing is that many of the people you see on scooters and other bikes wearing bugger all gear (and often riding in a dangerous manner) simply don't realise what a danger to themslves they are.

I completely agree with you. That's why I would like to see scooter riders encouraged to wear the gear. ATGATT is an overkill in some circumstances so I also wouldn't want to see this being compulsory.

[swbarnett]

Interesting point regarding accident rates vs actual numbers, yet another way statistics can be fudged.

More like made more accurate. What we're intereseted in is an individual motorcyclist's statistical likelihood of suffering an injury or fatality. The absolute number does not even come close to telling us this, the number per registered motorcycle does. We can see that this is actually falling. It has been trending downwards for decades. Probably at least in part due to the improvement in riding gear you quite rightly mention.

I've attached two graphs that I produced from data in http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...aland-2007.pdf. I think they clearly show the downward trend.

[cs363]

More like made more accurate. What we're intereseted in is an individual motorcyclist's statistical likelihood of suffering an injury or fatality. The absolute number does not even come close to telling us this, the number per registered motorcycle does. We can see that this is actually falling. It has been trending downwards for decades. Probably at least in part due to the improvement in riding gear you quite rightly mention.

I've attached two graphs that I produced from data in http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...aland-2007.pdf. I think they clearly show the downward trend.

Wasn't getting at you with that comment, just making passing comment about how LTSA and co twist statistics to suit their purpose - which you above post ably illustrates!

Your research shows what I would have expected given my previous comments.
So if the number of accidents in the Thames-Coromandel area is indeed bucking the trend (do we have any proof of this?) it would appear to be that the likely cause of the majority are riders exceeding their capabilities?

[Badjelly]

This whole 'the motorcyclist's road toll is increasing proportionally with the increase of bikes on the road' is bullshit.

The road toll for motorcyclists has always been disproportionately high for the percentage of road users we make up. Time everyone woke up to that fact.

I fail to see how these two statements (increase is proportional to number of bikes; always been disproportionately high relative to other vehicle types) are in any way incompatible with each other.

[swbarnett]

Wasn't getting at you with that comment,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I'd taken it personally.

So if the number of accidents in the Thames-Coromandel area is indeed bucking the trend (do we have any proof of this?) it would appear to be that the likely cause of the majority are riders exceeding their capabilities?

From what I've heard in other threads the cause may not be that riders are exceeding their capabilities any more than on any other similar road, just that the surroundings on the Coro loop are less forgiving so that when you do come off there's more to hit and the injuries are consequently higher. Maybe someone with more direct experience of the loop would care to comment?

[Ixion]

Well, of course, it is only a few years since the Kopu Rd was sealed. Before that, a Coromandel loop would have involved a lot of gravel road. So not many sprotsbikers would have done it. So we can't compare crash rates pre sealing to post sealing

[Katman]

I fail to see how these two statements (increase is proportional to number of bikes; always been disproportionately high relative to other vehicle types) are in any way incompatible with each other.

My post may have been slightly misleading.

I didn't mean that the figures indicating that the accident rate is increasing proportionately to the number of bikes, is bullshit - I meant that looking at it that way and just saying "Meh, we're crazy bikers, what can you do?" is bullshit.

As I said, we have always been disproportionately represented in accident figures and it is up to us to try to reverse that trend.

If we can't be arsed trying, you can be safely assured that someone else will try to do so on our behalf.

[oldrider]

As I said, we have always been disproportionately represented in accident figures and it is up to us to try to reverse that trend.

If we can't be arsed trying, you can be safely assured that someone else will try to do so on our behalf.

Have to agree! Quite clearly stated.

Sometimes we can be our own worst enemies.

Katman does not speak with faulse teeth in this post. John.

[MarkH]

I don't know whether scooter accidents are included in the statistics for motorcycle accidents, but I'm picking they are. So, provided my assumption is correct...

Why are the Police not targeting the riders of scooters and encouraging them to wear protective gear? Are their spills not using ACC funds too? I'm constantly seeing people riding around (like fuckwits, might I add) wearing next to nothing and you know it's going to hurt when they come off.

I do know the gear isn't going to stop people riding like dicks; however, won't it help reduce the injuries when the rider's stupidity finally catches up with him/her?

Why scooter riders? I have seen as many on motorcycles wearing t-shirt, shorts, no gloves, etc. Mainly over the last few weeks with all the hot weather we have had.

I think they should encourage every rider to wear appropriate gear. Even a 50cc scooter rider has to wear a helmet and I think they should wear gloves and a jacket as well - a spill at 50kph could do some nasty damage to bare hands!

[cs363]

Why scooter riders? I have seen as many on motorcycles wearing t-shirt, shorts, no gloves, etc. Mainly over the last few weeks with all the hot weather we have had.

I think they should encourage every rider to wear appropriate gear. Even a 50cc scooter rider has to wear a helmet and I think they should wear gloves and a jacket as well - a spill at 50kph could do some nasty damage to bare hands!

I think MotoGirl was making the comment as scooter riders do seem to be less inclined to wear protective gear most of the time compared with motorcycle riders, though as you correctly state hot weather such as we are experiencing lately brings out the worst in all riders as far as lack of gear goes.
And I agree, it would be good proactive policing if all riders were gently but firmly persuaded to ride with apprpriate gear.

Coming home from town just now I saw this idiot on a scooter wearing a (very) old open face helmet, singlet, board shorts and (the horror!) jandals and worse still he was pinned, weaving in and out of cars. Scary!

[vifferman]

Coming home from town just now I saw this idiot on a scooter wearing a (very) old open face helmet, singlet, board shorts and (the horror!) jandals

Luxury!
I saw one a while back dressed as above, but with no footwear...

Saw one last week wearing a bicycle helmet. I bet that was nice and cool.

[riffer]

My post may have been slightly misleading.

I didn't mean that the figures indicating that the accident rate is increasing proportionately to the number of bikes, is bullshit - I meant that looking at it that way and just saying "Meh, we're crazy bikers, what can you do?" is bullshit.

As I said, we have always been disproportionately represented in accident figures and it is up to us to try to reverse that trend.

If we can't be arsed trying, you can be safely assured that someone else will try to do so on our behalf.

Yeah, good post. You know though, I'm not entirely convinced that the majority harbour an apathetic or negative attitude towards road safety. Unfortunately for us, motorcycling does tend to attract the individualistic, anti-authoritarian types and we do tend to have a negative attitude towards being told what to do.

I'd say the majority of people on KB actually do share the same opinion as you mate. Trouble is, as you've pointed out ad nauseum, attention does tend to be focussed towards the negative attitudes.

So what can do about the minority giving the majority a bad name? Human society's been trying to find the answer to that for millennia, and politicians have been passing punitive laws that punish the innocent to catch the guilty for years.

I don't think we're going to change the general public's opinion of us in a hurry; I'm not sure if I'd like to either. Although I'm not (much), I kind of like being perceived as a bit of a bad boy...

Even if we reduce the accident rate to zero, I still think public perception will remain.

[Katman]

So what can do about the minority giving the majority a bad name?



Even if we reduce the accident rate to zero, I still think public perception will remain.

Peer pressure has changed the way drink driving is perceived. The same approach could be taken towards reckless riding.

And an accident rate of zero? - (even though it is inconceivable to even hope for it). I think the publics perception would be very different.