Police admit shooting innocent 17-year-old

[FJRider]

The police had no choice except to respond with the A.O.S.

But shooting an innocent bystander is at best a tragic accident, and at worst a result of careless shooting, that should never have happened.

Its not a case of choice except in as much as "don't choose to pull the trigger unless you know you won't hurt the innocent"

There are no good outcomes to come from this. A young father is dead, a policeman will either be charged with manslaughter, or a police "whitewash" will be claimed.

Welcome to the real world... the GUILTY do not die young, nor the innocent , live forever...

[oldguy]

If the elements that randomly fire weapons at Police, aren't obeying the "rules"... why should police in their attempts to stop them. RULES apply to BOTH

The only problem with that is, one is suppose to protect the innocent not kill them.

I guess its the same thing with War, innocent will die, just to get what ever people are fighting over.

[birdhandler]

"Eye witnesses also spoke of crossfire and it's possible that a ricochet bullet could have also been the cause of the tragic death of the young dad. We may never know the exact cause."
Highly likely with all the concrete and steel around
The .223 is also more likely to riccochet that thwe 0.22 the offender was using
BTW I have own and fire these so have some idea what I am talking about

Its a tradgedy for all the families involved

[Swoop]

Lets start with all the facts... anyone that has them all can go first...

Quite true mate. That is what I'm waiting for.

Known good fact:
The truck driver was able to go home to his family that night, because of the interventions of the police.

Known bad fact:
A courier driver with a young family and an imminent wedding, will be grieved for some considerable time.

A sad day for all involved.


(Odd when someone takes a sawn-off rifle to do a bag snatch though...)
P ??

[davereid]

officers have so much authority and power and when theres certain coppas that have certain lifestlye,attitude problems they may take it out on the criminals or in this case a teenager.they break down emotionaly,mentaly because expereinces in the force

Police don't actually have a lot of special powers. They have special authority to be armed. They also have the special liability of public expectation that they will deal with armed offenders.

There is no way this cop was "taking it out on a criminal". Its far more likely he was doing his job, to the best of his ability while being shot at by a madman.

Cops gain the authority to shoot under the same laws as a private citizen. That is to say they can only use reasonable force in the defence of themselves or others.

That means they have a special liablity as we expect them to shoot to protect us... but we will not offer them any special protection from mistakes.

I am glad I am not a policeman, expected to carry, and use a firearm in full knowledge that a mistake in a high pressure situation with someone shooting at me, would be treated by the law exactly the same as shooting a hunting buddy, or any other accidental shooting.

[FJRider]

The only problem with that is, one is suppose to protect the innocent not kill them.

I guess its the same thing with War, innocent will die, just to get what ever people are fighting over.

When BOTH sides believe they have / had a "right" to shoot... hindsight is a wonderful thing... you see so much.

[Katman]

If the elements that randomly fire weapons at Police, aren't obeying the "rules"... why should police in their attempts to stop them?

Ah, just a wild guess here but.........

.........maybe to avoid innocent lives being lost?

[MIXONE]

Nope I would'nt ever consider myself to be an expert in this field, just describing my RELATIVE experience, (experience in the debated subject is unsually useful - rather than just making rules and regs without any "hands-on" so to speak- I consider those without experience making up training/rules/regs etc to be cock pulling more than anything)
And yes I would'nt expect any kind of respect from a kiwi in regards to serving overseas, as kiwis could'nt give a shit about anything other than themselves and their own opinions.....

and BTW cock pulling is'nt anywhere involved in it (well there was a bit but I was stuck in the middle of no-where for considerable time)

Don't generalise.I'm a kiwi and am proud of the fact that many kiwis have and are serving overseas!My Dad and most of his generation being amongst them.That's my opinion.

[FJRider]

My point is that unless they are AOS memebers they shouldn't have firearms, or be allowed to use them.

So when firearms "incidents" occur, response times will be slow, (more)innocents will die, and Police will be accused of taking too long to do anything.
I have lived in countries where public opinion is ignored by "authorities"... innocent people die there to. Sadly... its not a perfect world.

[FJRider]

ah, just a wild guess here but.........

.........maybe to avoid innocent lives being lost?

or to try and stop more lives being lost...

[Winston001]

Ok - IMHO its a good thing that we debate any police shooting rather than shrug and accept it. We do not want an armed society so examining any police shooting and learning from it is important. Mistakes, errors, tragedies happen but might be avoided next time.

We don't know the facts here. The police fired 5 shots. The fatal shot could have been a through-and-through wound, passing through the body or sleeve of the offender. The shot may have been fired because the offender appeared to be about to shoot the young man. Or it could have been a ricochet.

At this stage I regard the officer as much a victim as the dead teenager. He'll have to live with this for the rest of his life and may leave the police. Can you imagine anything worse than firing a shot and killing an innocent person? I remember hearing the voices of American pilots in Iraq after a blue-on-blue when a Kiwi/Aussie was killed. They were terribly distraught - and their training for such tragedies is far greater than the police. Blue-on-blue is understood in the military even though it is feared.

I do think our police officers don't have enough experience with arms - but thats thankfully because we have a peaceful country where weapons are unusual. I'm not sure what the answer is - maybe 2 months military training with 5 annual refreshers, and regular shooting range practise.

[Skyryder]

This is an absolute tragedy in every respect, had the Police shot the offender earlier the innocent teenage father would still be alive.

PC critics have a lot to be ashamed of and in my opinion are the ones who should be on trial.

There is no excuse for this. You could see it coming after that futile attempt to shoot the bloody dog! Pathetic. John.

Yes I agree. Is that a first or a second no I think it's a third. I was pleased to see Collins offering her sympathies in person.

I will be watching her comments on this with some interest to see who she supports:the Police or the safety of the public.


Skyryder

[Winston001]

Yes I agree. Is that a first or a second no I think it's a third. I was pleased to see Collins offering her sympathies in person.

I will be watching her comments on this with some interest to see who she supports: the Police or the safety of the public.

Why not both? After all they have exactly the same primary intention.

[FJRider]

I do think our police officers don't have enough experience with arms - but thats thankfully because we have a peaceful country where weapons are unusual. I'm not sure what the answer is - maybe 2 months military training with 5 annual refreshers, and regular shooting range practise.

Police policy dictates training amounts, time spent on the ranges, is time not catching crims, and speeding motorists. So slow down, dont break the law, and Police will have more time for range practice... but then they wont need more ...EH !!!

[Robbo]

Nope I would'nt ever consider myself to be an expert in this field, just describing my RELATIVE experience, (experience in the debated subject is unsually useful - rather than just making rules and regs without any "hands-on" so to speak- I consider those without experience making up training/rules/regs etc to be cock pulling more than anything)
And yes I would'nt expect any kind of respect from a kiwi in regards to serving overseas, as kiwis could'nt give a shit about anything other than themselves and their own opinions.....

and BTW cock pulling is'nt anywhere involved in it (well there was a bit but I was stuck in the middle of no-where for considerable time)

Actually Firefighter, i take offence at this post of yours. I usually enjoy your posts and comments you have to offer but this one is obviously aimed at all Kiwis.
I take it that you are obviously an "Import" so therefore if you feel this way about us i would suggest that you pack up and fuck off back to where you came from.