Nurse offering a prayer = suspension

[Badjelly]

Ah, but you say, offering sexual services and offering to perform a religious ritual are two different things.

But are they?

Er, yes.

A better analogy would be asking someone if they minded you fantasising about them while masturbating.

[jrandom]

A better analogy would be asking someone if they minded you fantasising about them while masturbating.

Not quite. If I understand correctly, the nurse was offering to pray with the patient, not just offering to pray 'for' her at a later stage in private.

Although, of course, asking someone if they minded you fantasising about them while masturbating would be fairly offensive, too!

[zadok]

If I, in that nurses position, offered to perform oral sex on the old chook and it was 'politely declined', do you think this would have been a 'huge overreaction'?

Absolutely not. You would be horrified.

Ah, but you say, offering sexual services and offering to perform a religious ritual are two different things.

But are they?

It's not about whether it was 'pushed' on someone or not; it's about the potential offensiveness of the offer itself.

Religion has done great harm throughout history, and the arrogant assumption of many 'believers' that their fantasies are automatically relevant to others is the usual underlying reason for the harm.

Any healthcare professional displaying that particular arrogant assumption toward patients in their care deserves strong censure, as does any healthcare professional who arrogantly assumes that their patients want sexual services from them. Both attitudes are highly unprofessional and highly offensive to many people.

I repeat; 'huge overreaction'...... and not only on the part of the bureaucrats!
I agree with your comment about the 'harm' of Religion. It has given Christianity a bad name.

[Disco Dan]

That sounds just.

I am pleased that she has been suspended.

No nurse has "offer prayers" or anything religious in nature in their job description.

It is unprofessional to impose your own beliefs onto a client/patient in your care. Especially when they may not be in a fit state of judgement.

[jrandom]

It is unprofessional to impose your own beliefs onto a client/patient in your care. Especially when they may not be in a fit state of judgement.

The man speaks sense. This is what it all boils down to.

[jrandom]

I repeat; 'huge overreaction'...

You try to brush aside the fact that many people consider the nurse's actions unprofessional and offensive by saying 'overreaction'?

Sorry, that doesn't wash. Either an action is unprofessional and potentially offensive, or it is not.

In this case, it was (as is evidenced by the number of people who would be offended, and do consider that unprofessional conduct), and the nurse's censure was justified.

[MSTRS:Me]

And I thought that PC was all about tolerance. You lot are all just as bad as the INtolerant camp.

[zadok]

You try to brush aside the fact that many people consider the nurse's actions unprofessional and offensive by saying 'overreaction'?

Sorry, that doesn't wash. Either an action is unprofessional and potentially offensive, or it is not.

In this case, it was (as is evidenced by the number of people who would be offended, and do consider that unprofessional conduct), and the nurse's censure was justified.

No wonder this is in the "Pointless Drivel" section!

[Disco Dan]

You try to brush aside the fact that many people consider the nurse's actions unprofessional and offensive by saying 'overreaction'?

Sorry, that doesn't wash. Either an action is unprofessional and potentially offensive, or it is not.

In this case, it was (as is evidenced by the number of people who would be offended, and do consider that unprofessional conduct), and the nurse's censure was justified.

A discussion on ethics is not normally very clear cut... especially when there is very distinct liberal and conservative differences of views.

May I add it is also considered unprofessional to encourage a client in your care to stop smoking only if you yourself used to smoke.

...and on another tack, discrimination towards people who smoked was always out of bounds for employers until very recently. Employers in the US can now DENY you a job just because you smoke. All because of money rather than ethics, you simply cost more in health insurance. but an interesting point on how ethical lines can be moved when money is involved.

[jrandom]

No wonder this is in the "Pointless Drivel" section!

It's not. It's in the Rant or Rave section.

And I take it that that comment means you have no comeback beyond 'it was an overreaction!' to my argument that the nurse's censure was justified?

I'm stating that it's not an overreaction, because of the significant potential for offense. Do you have anything to offer against that statement beyond a repeat of your contradictory assertion, or do you not?

And I thought that PC was all about tolerance. You lot are all just as bad as the INtolerant camp.

If a nurse held white supremacist views and insisted on farewelling all her patients with a 'Sieg Heil!', would complaining about that constitute 'intolerance'?

Religion has killed more people than National Socialism, but social conditioning from childhood has normalised it in your mind to the extent that you fail to see it from that perspective.

Western monotheism is offensive to many because of the harm it has done and still does, in exactly the same way that Nazism is offensive.

It's inappropriate for any healthcare professional to express support for either philosophy to her patients.

[Indiana_Jones]

So if I was a mechanic and offered you a fag to smoke while bob was fixing your engine, and you said no, should I be scaked because I might of offended you?

-Indy

[jrandom]

So if I was a mechanic and offered you a fag to smoke while bob was fixing your engine, and you said no, should I be scaked because I might of offended you?

If you were a mechanic, no. If you were a doctor, yes, of course.

Different levels of responsibility. Doctors and nurses have a particular responsibility toward their patients behave considerately.

And bear in mind that nobody's talking criminal charges here. The nurse was simply censured for unprofessional conduct by her supervising organisation.

And, to be honest, if you, as a mechanic, offered a cigarette to someone who had lost a loved one due to lung cancer, and they complained to your boss, it wouldn't be entirely out of the question for him to give you a warning and/or remove you from customer-facing duties.

[Indiana_Jones]

But how would one know if they had lost a loved one to cancer.

So the point you're saying is that people must be censored and not allowed to say anything, just incase some cunt in the next room might have their feelings hurts.

-Indy

[jrandom]

But how would one know if they had lost a loved one to cancer.

These days, everyone knows that durries kill you. In fact, it's probably less socially acceptable in many circles to offer someone a cigarette than it is to offer them a joint.

In that social climate, frankly, any professional who offered a client they didn't know personally a smoke would just be being idiotic.

Fifty years ago, would've been fine. Now, situation's different.

... people must be censored and not allowed to say anything, just incase...

Don't try to strawman me. I'm simply saying that professionals, particularly healthcare professionals, should be aware of the social context they're working in, and not make offensive offers to their patients.

[Ixion]

You'd think though that the nurse would learn that prayer doesn't work after seeing so many people die in her care. (assumption)

Perhaps that is evidence that it DOES work. No Christian with an understanding of the nature of prayer would pray 'Please don't let anyone die'. That's not how it works.

That sounds just.

I am pleased that she has been suspended.

No nurse has "offer prayers" or anything religious in nature in their job description.

It is unprofessional to impose your own beliefs onto a client/patient in your care. Especially when they may not be in a fit state of judgement.

However, every Christian is commanded to do so. " Therefore, confess your sins one to another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much" James 5:16

So, if she had not asked, just done it, would that also have been unprofessional (not a rhetorical question) . If Big Bubba decides to grant the prayer, is that imposing her beliefs?

Likewise, if I , for example, were to pray for Mr Random, who knows not whereof ?