AMCC Presidents Report Feb 09

[Kickaha]

Thereby giving us all the opportunity to form an impression of him as a pompous, whining old twat.

Ain't it funny how those who are hung in the court of public opinion generally provide their own rope?



And yet in this case, forums such as this allowed racers who would otherwise have been voiceless to speak out publicly about grossly unfair and unprofessional treatment by race organisers.

And their voices were heard, and those organisers fucked off. Top result!

If the organisers had had any real excuse for what they did, they had just as much opportunity to defend themselves in public as anyone did to criticise them. But they didn't do that, did they?

And if it happens enough times we'll be lucky to have anyone left who'll even attempt to run these meetings, because as we all know any internet knob can do it better

It wasn't a problem with the organisers, it was a MNZ offical who said one thing and then did another

[MarkW]

Interesting.

The original post refers to one sentence - part of a five sentence paragraph and the content of Chris Costello's report that relates to Wanganui (both this and last years events) runs to two paragraphs or half of the total report.

The sentence used in the post has, in my opinion, been quoted on this forum completely out of context.

I am also a volunteer in the motorcycle world, and have been for many many years at a level far higher than most people get to.

I have looked at a number of different websites over the years and I tend to agree with Chris that on many websites the speculation, innuendo and general bashing that goes on does little to progress motorcycling in general and motorcycle sport in particular.

I supply voluntary services to some of the members who frequent this site. In less than 9 months I have received, via this website, on line criticism from members who haven't even had the courtesy or courage to talk to me directly, face to face or via any electronic means prior to their posting. Instead posters hide behind a web name and say whatever they like whenever they like.

As a volunteer I have one major advantage over all of the posters who like to give anyone/everyone a hard time without first having giving the recipient of the hard time a chance to discuss or redress the situation.

I don't have to be a volunteer at all. So if I stop volunteering will the poster step in and do a better job? Unfortunately, in the vast majority of cases. NO.

Having attended a larger number of AMCC Annual General Meetings than most people the paucity of volunteers willing to offer their services to serve on the Club Committee is standard.

So, to the poster who advises that the AMCC newsletter is out of the 70's, I look forward to you offering your services, free, to collate, print and mail 11 newsletters a year to the 350 odd recipients in a style that will bring the AMCC newsletter into the year 2009. The Club happily pays the printing and postage costs.

Criticism to be useful, needs to be CONstructive. The vast majority of criticism on websites and generally is DEstructive. It's no good telling someone that what they are doing is wrong if you haven't first come up with a better way to do it. In my opinion, it's even worse doing it anonymously.

Mark Waters
Life Member - Auckland Motorcycle Club Inc
Instructor - NASS
Retired FIM graded Steward, FIM graded Clerk of the Course and MNZ Safety Commissioner plus just about every position possible below these.

[SixPackBack]

"Its amazing that anyone is prepared to stick their hand up and organise anything given the amount of money that can be made from a properly run and promoted event."

From a casual observation point [and sarcasm duly noted] motorcycle sport in N.Z seems to be run by an organisational capability and characters last seen in the 70's. Getting rid of 'enthusiasts' and employing professional management focused on taking the sport forward is well over due. Big ups to those that do help out presently, but a change of guard is well over due.

[Squiggles]

If the organisers had had any real excuse for what they did, they had just as much opportunity to defend themselves in public as anyone did to criticise them. But they didn't do that, did they?

If by defending themselves publicly you mean posting on a forum, nobody wins from that... People can come along, bitch, whine, misquote or make purely false accusations... then fuck back off into cyberspace if it doesnt go their way.

Just as you claim street races to be profitable (ignoring the fact you said "stand to profit" as any venture is potentially profitable). This could easily blow out on the interweb with people wanting more prize money, better this and that, or claiming the event is mismanaged. All based on one mans belief, rather than fact.

[jrandom]

If by defending themselves publicly you mean posting on a forum, nobody wins from that...

I dunno. I'd say the motorbike racers won pretty good that way after Wanganui 2007.

People can come along, bitch, whine, misquote or make purely false accusations... then fuck back off into cyberspace if it doesnt go their way.

Dunno about you, but I'm not anonymous on here. Neither is White Trash, who started the original complaint thread, or MadDuck, who started this one... get the picture?

We're simply speaking in public, and anyone who doesn't stand behind what they say or can't justify it will get quickly laughed off stage.

Just as you claim street races to be profitable (ignoring the fact you said "stand to profit" as any venture is potentially profitable). This could easily blow out on the interweb with people wanting more prize money, better this and that, or claiming the event is mismanaged.

Um. I'm sorry, you're saying that publicly acknowledging the fact that race meetings attracting tens of thousands of paying spectators can be profitable might... what, make competitors want more prize money, or embolden people to complain about issues they experience at the event?

Perish the thought.

[The Stranger:Me]

I have not seen the report ( and nor am I really interested ) but Chris Costello has as much right to express his opinions as anyone else by whatever form of media. My 2 cents worth is that forums can effectively act as kangaroo courts where you are tried, found guilty and executed. Very often without the poor sod having any knowledge of the act.
...
Forums such as this very often bring out the very worst emotional nonsense in people, fact.

Ok. But like it or not they are here and here to stay (in one form or another) so the old guard needs to learn to live and work with it. Ruing or disparaging Internet forums isn't going to "fix" them.
Transparency may help.

[scracha]

So, to the poster who advises that the AMCC newsletter is out of the 70's, I look forward to you offering your services, free, to collate, print and mail 11 newsletters a year to the 350 odd recipients in a style that will bring the AMCC newsletter into the year 2009. The Club happily pays the printing and postage costs.

Public forum rants aside, here's something constructive. Have a couple of little tick boxes on the membership form to opt in to having emails and/or printed newsletters. Hell, charge an extra ten bucks membership for those that still want printed newsletters. I'm sure most would be happy to read it on a webbysite or have it emailed. I'm sure the poor sod(s) who spend a day printing off and folding newsletters would like this idea too.

[FROSTY:Me]

I don't have to be a volunteer at all. So if I stop volunteering will the poster step in and do a better job? Unfortunately, in the vast majority of cases. NO.
Criticism to be useful, needs to be CONstructive. The vast majority of criticism on websites and generally is DEstructive. It's no good telling someone that what they are doing is wrong if you haven't first come up with a better way to do it. In my opinion, it's even worse doing it anonymously..

Mark
You know me as does Chris so no hiding behind Internet nicknames here.
You make a BLOODY FANTASTIC point Ie Unless you are prepared to step up and offer your BETTER services then why have a go at the guys who do.Without the guys running the place there would be no meeting to bitch about.
However you might want to concider it could be time to so to speak put ya neck on the "chopping block"
I'm clearly several hundred events behind you guys n gals as far as numbers oif events organised but I always ask for feedback from the people who attended the ones I do organise
Yea you get some stupid comments but on the whole the result has been constant improvement. Incidently some of the constructive feedback has been from Mr Costello himself.
Also Re Newsletter-A suggestion. On this very forum theres a shit load of VERY computer literate people, I bet the AMCC webpage could be so revitalised and updated that the ol paper letter would be a thing of the past.
All Im saying is ya might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
There are people who probably would and indeed HAVE assited with events run by the various clubs as a DIRECT result of this website.

[FROSTY:Me]

Dunno about you, but I'm not anonymous on here. Neither is White Trash, who started the original complaint thread, or MadDuck, who started this one... get the picture?

He does have a valid point though dude.
Me I'm Frosty In real life as well as on forums. Not having a go at You but you could walk up to Mr Waterer and have and indepth conversation with him -he would have no clue you were J random. Er if ya get what Im sayin.No actual link to real life.
A thought might be AMCC having their own Forum -r4eal names only for feedback.

[GIXser]

The quality of their news letter speaks volumes about the level of professionalism and engagement AMCC displays. It might have been appropriate in 1979, but seriously a 16 year old could whip something up more interesting.

exactly dude....

[Robert Taylor]

Why alter what someone else is saying and imply that he said it ... that is extremely deceitful ... and also underhanded ... something which you may be good at ... but that is I think to others on the site ... dishonest ...

But then again ... it is you .. so should we expect anything different.

IT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID >>> SO WHY ALTER IT!

Thanks for the support, its a very very low thing to deliberately misquote. What else gets deliberately falsified or twisted to satisfy a perverse ego?
Thank god we largely have many good people of stable character running motorcycle events, it cant be easy and its certainly not a license to print money. I salute the efforts of the many unpaid people around the country who devote their free time to do so.

[White trash]

Interesting.

The original post refers to one sentence - part of a five sentence paragraph and the content of Chris Costello's report that relates to Wanganui (both this and last years events) runs to two paragraphs or half of the total report.

The sentence used in the post has, in my opinion, been quoted on this forum completely out of context.

I am also a volunteer in the motorcycle world, and have been for many many years at a level far higher than most people get to.

I have looked at a number of different websites over the years and I tend to agree with Chris that on many websites the speculation, innuendo and general bashing that goes on does little to progress motorcycling in general and motorcycle sport in particular.

I supply voluntary services to some of the members who frequent this site. In less than 9 months I have received, via this website, on line criticism from members who haven't even had the courtesy or courage to talk to me directly, face to face or via any electronic means prior to their posting. Instead posters hide behind a web name and say whatever they like whenever they like.

As a volunteer I have one major advantage over all of the posters who like to give anyone/everyone a hard time without first having giving the recipient of the hard time a chance to discuss or redress the situation.

I don't have to be a volunteer at all. So if I stop volunteering will the poster step in and do a better job? Unfortunately, in the vast majority of cases. NO.

Having attended a larger number of AMCC Annual General Meetings than most people the paucity of volunteers willing to offer their services to serve on the Club Committee is standard.

So, to the poster who advises that the AMCC newsletter is out of the 70's, I look forward to you offering your services, free, to collate, print and mail 11 newsletters a year to the 350 odd recipients in a style that will bring the AMCC newsletter into the year 2009. The Club happily pays the printing and postage costs.

Criticism to be useful, needs to be CONstructive. The vast majority of criticism on websites and generally is DEstructive. It's no good telling someone that what they are doing is wrong if you haven't first come up with a better way to do it. In my opinion, it's even worse doing it anonymously.

Mark Waters
Life Member - Auckland Motorcycle Club Inc
Instructor - NASS
Retired FIM graded Steward, FIM graded Clerk of the Course and MNZ Safety Commissioner plus just about every position possible below these.

Ahaa, exactly who's input I'd like to hear. Someone involved in both sides of the spectrum. Thank you Mark.

Chris knows me, and my partner Sue. He turned up here on a scooter to offer his congratulations when our son was born. He's made no bones as to his dislike of forums, especialy this one. I on the other hend venemously defend them. Let's have some facts, shall we?

Firstly. Nothing is "printed" on KB. To sugest so implies this is a publication with (of some description) an editor being ultimately responsible for what's "printed". KB is a forum. A forum is a medium through which each and every participant can voice their opinion. And herein lies the difference.

Kiwibiker represents the LARGEST cross section of different motorcyclists opinions in New Zealand. It is one of the largest online motorcycle forums in the world, the majority of its contributors being kiwi. Surely it makes very simple sense, as a commitee member of a motorcycle club, to see what public opinion is, rather than rubish an entire website and claim its contributors are all "riders with no talent who are experts after the fact and contribute nothing back to the sport other than bitch online on how they could do better"?

In relation to the shit stirred up over Cemetary '07, I stand by my opinion and still feel hard done by. Am I happy the organiser bowed out and feels shit? Hell no. The man obviously put his heart into the event and did more than I could hope to accomplish. However, someone needs to be accountable for a SERIOUS balls up in organization on that day and as the main man, if he couldn't even be bothered to respond to concerns, who is? Stepping down is one thing, to blame stepping down on "crap printed on various websites" which you had as much oportunity to respond to as twelve thousand other contributors, is a cop out. Sorry.

They all have my name, email address, phone number and home address. As do MNZ. I'm STILL (13 months later) awaiting a response from my formal enquiries sent to Wnaganui Cemetary Circuit 2007 and Motorcycling New Zealand.

(Sorry Paul P. "Got your email. Don't call us, well call you" is NOT a response)

Jimmy Mair.
(Ex) Superbike No.20

ps. Mark. You could possibly point out that a good number of volunteers at AMCC events are directly recruited from this very website. I'll name names with peoples permission if proof is required

[White trash]

Thanks for the support, its a very very low thing to deliberately misquote. What else gets deliberately falsified or twisted to satisfy a perverse ego?
Thank god we largely have many good people of stable character running motorcycle events, it cant be easy and its certainly not a license to print money. I salute the efforts of the many unpaid people around the country who devote their free time to do so.

So do I Robert. Especially the folk that run the huge events that are street events.

However, you know what happened that very day. Let's hold no one accountable, let's name no names.

Was it right?

Was it wrong?

[White trash]

Sorry. Just one more very major point.

I support AMCC and VMCC one hundred fucken percent. There is, without a doubt in my mind, no way the issues (and they aren't even the issue any more) encountered on that day would have occured had either of those comittees been in the drivers seat. They are both stand up clubs who are amongst the most active in New Zealand and offer the best returns for their members each and every year. My hats off to them.

[SixPackBack]

So, to the poster who advises that the AMCC newsletter is out of the 70's, I look forward to you offering your services, free, to collate, print and mail 11 newsletters a year to the 350 odd recipients in a style that will bring the AMCC newsletter into the year 2009. The Club happily pays the printing and postage costs.

Drop the amateur mind set. Gather what money you have to hire a kick arse promotional manager.

Motorcycle racing organisation needs to move away from 'bring a plate'

Andrew.