Bike vs bike crashes - why so many?

[Squiggles]

Too many riding beyond their capabilities. There is never a need to cross the centreline.

[jrandom]

Surely the go right rule is simply expressing "look at the gap"

No, it's not.

I'm moving past that, and assuming that the people reading this thread know how to ride their motorcycles, and don't need to be taught to suck eggs with "look where you want to go" admonitions.

Thing is, in these situations, there's a gap on both sides.

So, in my visualisation now, if there's no oncoming car in the mix, I go inside, to the right.

If there's an oncoming car that's being overtaken by the bike in my way, I go outside, to the left.

The act of visualisation is the important part, I think.

And I know that sometimes, one can be in a situation where the only choice is to bend over, put one's head between one's legs, and kiss one's arse goodbye.

But I suspect that that will only be true for a minority of oncoming-bike cases.

[Ixion]

Mmyes.

That situation's a bit different, too, because the oncoming bike hasn't forced itself right - it's been intentionally steered onto the other side of the road to go around the car.

So you can probably assume that the rider retains more control of their line.

I agree that if it's an oncoming bike-overtaking-a-car situation, going left is a better option. Going right is more appropriate for the overcooked-squid scenario.

Agreed, with the squidly thing. One can postulate that if he knew HOW to get back to his left (ie your right), he wouldn't be on the wrong side of the road in the first place. So he's not going there, which means you may as well. But be sure there isn't another bike close behind him! Such squids often hunt in packs. or be prepared to swing hard left as soon as you are round him.

One needs to consider the degree of things too. On a few occasions I have found myself just to the left of the centre line, setting up for a left hander. And found another bike coming round the corner, also hard on the centre line , as he apexes his right hander. In each case, I jinked left he loosened his line (given that his course was taking him back to his side anyway) and all was well.

It really does depend on the circumstances. But it is amazing how fast ones mind can work in such circumstances. It all comes down to the old rules, expect the unexpected, and go where the danger isn't. Actually I'm even wondering if this could be one of the very very rare situations where the old canard about "laying it down" might be valid. If there is nowhere else to go, do you have a better chance sliding than head on ?

[peasea]

Hope like hell it works for you. A mate lost his leg in a bike accident many years ago - an oncoming car overtook another car and he couldn't move to the right as the car that was being overtaken was there. I can't remember the full details but think there were parked cars on his left so he couldn't move there either. The overtaking car then pulled back into his own lane, clipping my mate as he did so, and tearing his leg off at the hip.

If it hadn't been for the fact he came off near an off-duty doctor's place, he would have bled to death before the ambulance arrived.

Whoever said motorcyclists are dicks was right - a large number of them do fall into that category. I am often called a wuss because I don't ride much on the road any more but it's because I get sick of the behaviour of some riders and motorists.

Gotta say, I am in partial agreement. There are more than just a few riders out there who desperately need a bash on occasion. Poker runs that take in five pubs don't help.

[R6_kid:Me]

While I can understand your sentiment jrandom, i dont think this would work so well in the real world. In that particular video the rider who fucked up had enough time to save the day, but looks to have target fixated on the R1.

With maritime and aviation the rule is as you've stated, if in doubt turn right (starboard), that is what every pilot/skipper/captain needs to know in order to operate their vessel.

On the road it's different, you'll be playing with statistics when you make your decision. x times out y riders go right, z times out of y they do nothing etc etc.

Truth is, the reason we don't have these rules in place is because the rules that are in place, if abided by, are meant to stop these situations from coming up in the first place.

I think the only thing that you can apply in this situation is to make a decision early and stick to it. If you've screwed up, take the hit and run yourself off the road, dont' try to correct your mistake and put yourself in the other riders path - they dont deserve to die because of your cock up.

[rastuscat]

I was riding through Lewis Pass at the weekend, waiting to overtake a slow moving cage in the twisties.

A line of bikes came the other way, waved to them all and they waved back. All had headlights on.

The cage moved left, and as I was about to pull out to pass a twat on a bike came the other way with no headlight, black helmet, black jacket etc. Bloody hard to see in a tree covered, shaded highway.

It would have been my fault if we had head onned, but is makes me wonder why people ride bikes while making every effort not to be seen.

[peasea]

But it is amazing how fast ones mind can work in such circumstances.

And your sphincter............

[pritch]

They're not squids though. They're invariably Cruisers with pillions.

Actually that isn't so wide of the mark. On my last solo trip along SH43 I had several times to move out of the way of bikes on my side of the road. Most were cruisers. They were in groups, they had seen me, so I guess they were operating under the well known road rule, "God favours the big battalions".

I have to temper my condemnation of their behaviour to some extent though as sometimes having arrived at a corner too hot I may be rather wider than would be prudent... I'm working on this

[Maha]

I have seen some god awful decisions made at times Dan, ones that make me back off and sit up and even raise both my hands. Its horrifying to think that 3-4-5 seconds can command whereupon you live or die.

[jrandom]

... it is amazing how fast ones mind can work in such circumstances.

Ain't that the truth.

Case in point. PMCC round 1. Clubmans and the motards were started together, with a 15-second gap (motards went off first).

In Race 2, one of the motards stalled on the start line, right in front of the Clubmans field. He attempted to kick-start his bike a few times, and then hopped off and pushed it off the track, allowing the Clubmans flag to drop.

Sitting on the second row of the Clubmans grid, I was huffing and getting annoyed, and would have sworn after the race that he spent a full 45 seconds or so faffing about on the track there.

But when I saw BIGBOSSMAN's footage of that race start later on, that motard was on the track in front of the Clubmans grid for less than ten seconds.

Serious time dilation. It was spooky. And Biggles08, sitting right in front of me on that grid, reported exactly the same amazement when he saw the video.

[scracha]

There has not been a lot of coverage of this crash - does anyone know who the riders are and are they okay?

Yes..... No

[jrandom]

While I can understand your sentiment jrandom, i dont think this would work so well in the real world.

*shrug*

Do whatever you think works, hey.

What I would like people to take away from this thread, I think, is the idea that, regardless of the actual approach they take to the situation, visualisation before the fact is a tool that might save their arses.

[Nasty]

You know I have read the thread and its interesting .. cos believe it or not all this theory and crap goes right out the window when it happens - in that .002 seconds you have to react.

How do I know .. my sister and her partner (dec) were hit head on by another bike 18 years ago this year.

It really doesn't matter how you work it out, if you can't do it in the flash of a moment you risk ending up like her partner, even given that he had literally nowhere to go ... no room on the left and the bike was on his right ... he whiteknuckled and lost a leg (and his life) and her leg got ripped at the knee .. they managed to save it ... but the cost to her cannot ever be accounted for.

[GOPSTER]

I agree with J having these ideas in the head will help speed up reaction times. But i would just be getting out of the way any which way i could. If its right to get round them or if thats not possible left off the road. The way is see it is that a 100km/h crash is better than a 200km/h crash.

Obviously no crashing would be best.

[ManDownUnder]

Thing is, in these situations, there's a gap on both sides.

Gotcha... that's where I either misunderstood or perhaps read more into it.

I had an image in mind of mee (personally) being reasonably on the edge too (let's say leaning left) in which case going further left isn't an option, maintaining my line isn't either for head on crash reasons... in which case go right would be a reasonably sound decision... all other things being reasonable.

If go left is an option too then hell... weigh up the options and take the best one. I still don't see the value in advise that says go right by default. I still say fixate on the gap and go there.