Mark Lundy - miscarriage of justice?

[Murray]

I read through that years ago. I also have intimate knowledge of the entire case that I'm not able to share publicly, nothing there makes a zot of difference to my opinion of this case.

And were others looked at as suspects. Sorry I just believe that theres 2 many grey areas!!

[Maha]

Entirely my fault interpreting your comment that "Mark Lundys lawyer must have sucked" with me thinking it meant something like if he had a reasonable lawyer he would have got off.

Really don't know how I could have come to that conclusion????

So what did you mean with the sucked comment???

Please enlighten me

I will try...
A Defence Lawyers soul objective is to defend the accused (I am sure you will agree on that)
A Defence Lawyer will have a fair idea as to how strong his case is before going into court .
In the Mark Lundy case...the Defence failed to defend his case, proof being, Lundy is in jail, no denying that.
I will however, give a wee bit credit to Lundys Lawyer....must a bastard of a job trying to defend a quilty man, but he gave it a go.

[Finn]

And was the Real estate guy who suicided a couple of weeks later (who was having a relationship with Ms Lundy) ever looked at as a suspect

Real Estate agents stab you in the back, not the front.

[Monie]

He still did it... how? only he knows I guess. Probably thought for a while that he had got away with it but, in my opinion, the Police have the right man in this case.

i agree
have read everyones post and yes he did it that is what i think...

[Mully]

I read through that years ago. I also have intimate knowledge of the entire case that I'm not able to share publicly, nothing there makes a zot of difference to my opinion of this case.

Shouldn't all the information in this case be Public Record now?? Or an I getting confused??

And didn't someone on here say that they (personally) had duplicated the drive he was supposed to have made? (may have been you, spudchucka). Seems one of their key points is that doing the drive, and the murders would be impossible.

[Monie]

but as someone said was he really in petone ...

[Murray]

was he??? A call was made from his cell phone in Petone?? doesnt mean it was him though. Just another grey area

[spudchucka]

Shouldn't all the information in this case be Public Record now?? Or an I getting confused??

Anything that was in the trial and wasn't suppressed will be in the public arena. I'm not necessarily talking about the trial though.

[Maha]

I think that the police should look closer at his alibi....it is possible that he was not at Petone at all but in Palmerston North the whole time.

was he??? A call was made from his cell phone in Petone?? doesnt mean it was him though. Just another grey area

I mentioned that earlier, that piece of evidence probably worked against him. So much for that alibi.

[HenryDorsetCase]

what a defence lawyer does is test the prosecution's case.

These are fundamental concepts to the way we structure our society and the way that the rule of law works. Its a system that works mostly, though being set up and maintained by humans. there are bound to be glitches, cockups and the occasional hilarity.

I am amazed at how often I have to explain this to people but here we go:

an accused person is innocent, until they are proven guilty.

In a criminal proceeding that proof is "beyond reasonable doubt"

"Beyond reasonable doubt" is is they absolutely did it, not "he is more likely than not" to have done it. (i.e. 99% probability, not 51%). Dont get hung up on the number or the 1% its just illustrative: your results may vary)

So in any given criminal proceeding we have the Pleece, who investigate, and then prosecute an accused person (if its serious then the Crown instructs lawyers to do its work for it: these are the Crown Prosecutors and they make out like bandits). That accused person is entitled to a fair trial and in that trial the Judge decides the law, but the jury decides the facts

What the defence lawyer does is try and see if the prosecution's case stands up: to raise that reasonable doubt if you will: lay people think of this as "getting off on a technicality" but in fact it is fundamental to the way the system works. If there is a technicality there to be gotten off on, it means someone has fucked up on the prosecution side, simple as that.

People that i know that do criminal defence work do it not because of their desire to work long hours for little pay, arguing for every bean from the Legal Aid people, but because they do have some concept of wanting the system to work as it should, plus they absolutely live for the challenge of the game. Every time they win, its like the Makos winning the Ranfurly Shield (to adopt a metaphor you all understand but I have no clue about): i.e. the underdog wins.

It really pisses me off when people equate in their minds the criminal defence lawyer with their client. Even the most loathsome client deserves the best defence, because as soon as you don't allow that defence, and as soon as you undermine that system (which has been 500 years in the making) you are undermining some very basic concepts about this society and its structure, without really thinking about it.

Of course, if it is established that some miscreant has committed some heinous act, then the question is what as a society do we do about that? But thats a different debate (and one which you will not be surprised to hear that I have very definite opinions about as well).

The key concept here is that the loss of personal liberty, and sanction by the state is such an imposition on the liberty of its citizens that it is better to have the system "weighted" (if you like) in favour of the defendant.

Now, having said all that, all this rhetoric about "hang em high" and "burn them on sight" and "crush their cars" and whatever is a very long way from the liberal democracy you thought you lived in.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Oh, and Lundy? He did it no question in my mind.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

The C*#t did it alright - my ex husband knew him well - the only reason he didn't go to the funeral was he's a workaholic and a selfish prick. Our Friend Al was the one holding Lundy up during his performance - Al is a good guy and was devastated afterwards. Lundy drank very heavily as well, the guy's a big fat loser. I don't believe he was in Petone either. That guy Lundy has always given me the creeps. That is one jury I would have hated to be on.

[skidMark]

he didnt take the car he took a motorbike. thats how.

[Winston001]

Mark Lundys Lawyer must have sucked!!!

Yeah, that's a tempting but hollow call, which HDC has answered eloquently above.

The thing is, one defence lawyer on limited legal aid is up against the whole system. Crown prosecutors, police prosecutors, senior detectives, case officers, CRI scientists, police computer experts, overseas forensic scientists, there is no end to the amount of money and manpower which can be brought against an accused person.

I'm confident Lundy was well represented. If the N&S article is accurate then the defence simply didn't have the ability to question stuff which only now looks unreliable. Hindsight is wonderful.

I should also say that convincing a jury beyond a reasonable doubt is bloody difficult. Try getting 12 people together and make them agree on something. I think Lundy was convicted on the totality of evidence and the brain cells must have been crucial. If they are suspect.......??

[Skyryder]

The real problem with high profile murder cases is that when it comes to experts and differing opinions on evidence the jury in most cases will believe the prosecutions. While there are exceptions to this there are far too many guilty verdicts that later on appear to be doubtfull.

For me the concern is that the law does not seem able or willing to correct it's mistakes. It takes private indaviduals a great deal of time and money not too mention public opinion before the justice system starts taking notes on the possibility of a miscarrage of justice.

By the time this happens those involved are either dead or in retirement and any one who bays for their blood is ridiculed.


Skyryder