DNA law change

[Patrick]

I wish the scrotes and arsewipes in NZ could have the same degree of acountability as ESR.

There ya go... fixed it for ya....

[Ixion]

It is usually put in this form...

"The DNA found at the scene is a hundred (or sixty even...) million more times likely to have come from this defendant..."

Kinda points one in the right direction - since there is only 4 mill in the country.

I haven't heard of a figure as low as 1 mill.... ever... but what do I know......

the number is usually hyperinflated to make the jury go "jeez, dat's a big number. Must be guilty"

The crooked part (or, one of the crooked parts) is, the 'big number' is 'in comparison with a random person'. That is, the defendant is x million times more likely to be the perpetrator than an Eskimo. The random person isn't even limited to the population of the world. It is just "out of all the possible DNA combinations' which is a huge number. And of course, the population of NZ is NOT random. Most NZers are related distantly to one another. It's a small country. And once you introduce any degree of relationship at all, the odds plummet.

But with the proposed database, even that will be irrelevant, because what will happen is it will become an elimination game. "We have three possible suspects. So look up the DNA database and see which is the best match . OK, C is the closest fit, must be him, the scientific DNA evidence proves it".

I wouldn't convict a dog of barking on the basis of DNA evidence .

[Patrick]

Kinda follow what you're saying, but it is usually presented as "x million more times to be the defendant than any other male in NZ" for example... dunno about the eskimo, unless he was the one kicking the polar bear in the ice hole.

But if the DNA is for a dog, then why not convict it of barking?

[98tls]

Difficult choice really,lets oppose the rule change and give the ever growing number of fuckheads in this country more opportunity to get away with there shit so as to appease a few hippies that still believe that New Zealand's "the way we were".

[spudchucka]

I wouldn't convict a dog of barking on the basis of DNA evidence .

Are you Ned Ludd reincarnated?

[Ixion]

In some circles i am known as Enoch Ludd. Neds BLOODY BIG HAMMER. Try enochludd@gmail.com

[wbks]

Most NZers are related distantly to one another. It's a small country.

Anyone for opening up the immigration laws? Unless of course you fancy pumping your distant cousin

[Ixion]

Marriage between cousins is legal and not uncommon'. Almost all maoris are related. If not by blood then by digestion. Remember that six generations thing.

[dipshit]

Almost all maoris are related.

Bingo! So long as DNA can prove that the black guy did it - it would have done its job nicely.

[Max Preload]

Bingo! So long as DNA can prove that the black guy did it - it would have done its job nicely.

And predictably...

[davereid]

The principles that allowed us to consider ourselves democratic, free and justice loving appear to be getting lost.

Police can be judge-jury and executioner on the side of the road.

The idea of innocent until proven guilty has long since gone, and we have lost the right to appeal to higher courts.

Being judged by a jury of your peers is no longer of much value as jury nullification has been made illegal. Jury nullification was of course the very reason we had juries in the first place !

Various government agencies can force their way into your home without warrant or cause.

Applying for a firearms licence gets your picture in the digital criminal database.

This is yet another example of governments lurch towards tyranny. "We'll take your DNA, because we can"

Police are implicated in this, claiming its OK because its legal. The guards of Auschwitz, made quite the same claim.

We are of course many miles from Auschwitz.. but we give our Government the power to take us there at our peril.

[MSTRS:Me]

Marriage between cousins is legal and not uncommon'. Almost all maoris are related.

Are you trying to say that incest tends to run in families?

[Max Preload]

Blah blah etc, etc.

Sounds like you don't trust the government. What do you have to hide?

[Winston001]

The principles that allowed us to consider ourselves democratic, free and justice loving appear to be getting lost.........

It's true that the price of freedom is to be ever vigilant. So if a national database of all NZers DNA was established, then there would need to be an independant controlling body.

The problem for us as a society is that our individual freedoms are always limited by the requirements of the community we live in. We may only drive on one side of the road. We must pay taxes to support each other - schools, roads etc.

People often shout long and loud about freedoms and rights without recognising there are obligations too. If we want peace and prosperity, a safe society, then we have to accept some rules. If a DNA database helps find offenders then that surely is a good thing.

So far most of this discussion has focused on paranoia about police stopping you on the side of the road and fitting you up for some burglary/rape/murder. As others have said, DNA is only one evidential element - there still needs to be other corroborating evidence. Look at the OJ Simpson case - they had Simpson's DNA - and he was acquitted!

And don't forget the victims of crime whom most of you ignore. Don't they have the right, the legitimate expectation that the offender will be identified?

[spudchucka]

The principles that allowed us to consider ourselves democratic, free and justice loving appear to be getting lost.

Police can be judge-jury and executioner on the side of the road.

The idea of innocent until proven guilty has long since gone, and we have lost the right to appeal to higher courts.

Being judged by a jury of your peers is no longer of much value as jury nullification has been made illegal. Jury nullification was of course the very reason we had juries in the first place !

Various government agencies can force their way into your home without warrant or cause.

Applying for a firearms licence gets your picture in the digital criminal database.

This is yet another example of governments lurch towards tyranny. "We'll take your DNA, because we can"

Police are implicated in this, claiming its OK because its legal. The guards of Auschwitz, made quite the same claim.

We are of course many miles from Auschwitz.. but we give our Government the power to take us there at our peril.

And in the next breath you'll probably moan that the police do nothing when your house gets burgled.

Crime control and civil liberties will always be in conflict to some degree and its up to modern civilisations to find a happy balance.

Taking a saliva swab from an arrested person is no great infringement on their rights especially when you take into consideration that in all likelihood the arrested person has been arrested because they infringed upon the rights of some other innocent party.