DNA law change

**Ixion** · 12th February 2009, 20:00

This thread provides a perfect illustration of why police demands for increased powers must always be steadfastly resisted. If granted they will most certainly be used as a ratchet for further demands, and immediately abused.

**scumdog** · 12th February 2009, 20:04

Originally Posted by Ixion

This thread provides a perfect illustration of why police demands for increased powers must always be steadfastly resisted. If granted they will most certainly be used as a ratchet for further demands, and immediately abused.

Why not fight to wind-back the laws already there - like getting the speed-limit lowered to 80kph and the breath-alcohol limit raised and seat-belts and air-bags removed from cars, voluntary helmet wearing....why stop there, make heroin legal again and allow the carrying of pistols.....oh the world would be so good if all those silly old laws could be repealed

**Winston001** · 12th February 2009, 20:16

Originally Posted by scumdog

C'mon Winston, you're making way too much sense - this IS KB after all where paranoid

is the norm!!

Sorry mate, silly me, must try harder.....

Originally Posted by spudchucka

Put it in perspective, all they are proposing is taking a DNA sample off criminals upon arrest. If they are subsequently acquitted the sample gets deleted.......

Say whut??

What a pack of pansies. Who decided that? Here we have an excellent chance to build up a national database and some limpwristed liberals want to throw half the info away?????

**Ixion** · 12th February 2009, 20:21

Many of those provide further examples of the erosion of civil freedom (and , in some cases, of the people reclaiming back some of their lost freedom).

Breath alcohol limit? And we have all seen how, on every occasion , the wowsers use it as a stalking horse for their campaign to introduce prohibition. And previous alcohol laws are even more illustrative. Like 6 oclock closing. The wowsers lost the prohibition campaign after the War, but did manage to get 6 oclock closing. And what a nasty piece of work that was, until the people finally cried "enough" and had it repealed.

Heroin. yes indeed. And when the laws prohiting it were introduced they were brought in in exactly the same way as the current proposal. And, who could object to a law that only affected those nasty heroin addicts. Then , bit by bit , it was extended. And now we see the same laws covering marijuana, "party pills' and goodness knows what else. Yes. I would have them repealed. And there are people, some not so far from here (even a politcal party) who argue strongly for the return of the right for people to go to hell in their own handbasket. I myslef have no wish to do so, but there is no valid reason why my personal decision should be enforced on others of a differing opinion.

And many parts of the world allow the carrying of pistols, there are those on this site who will argue that the permission makes those places safer and more civilised, not the reverse.

And as for helmets and seatbelts, I ahve always said, that people should wear them , but they should not be compulsory.

**spudchucka** · 12th February 2009, 21:11

Originally Posted by Ixion

This thread provides a perfect illustration of why police demands for increased powers must always be steadfastly resisted. If granted they will most certainly be used as a ratchet for further demands, and immediately abused.

That thread proves nothing other than the fact that young cops require supervision.

**spudchucka** · 12th February 2009, 21:21

The same horror from the civil libertarians was splashed all over the papers and talk back radio in 1998 when the evil Govt of that time took away our life time paper licences and demanded that we all get a photo licence that was only good for a maximum of ten years.

Its not a licence its an ID card, we'll all be off to concentration camps next!!!!

Oh the horror of it all, we are being plunged into the depths of Nazi Germany reincarnated upon the fair shore of the utopia of New Zealand.

The paranoia that swept the land was terrible, goodness me what will these tyrannical Govt agencies do with our digital images, the possibilities were endless.

Eleven years and a couple of governments later and I still don't feel overly oppressed by having to submit my digital image to the Govt but ho hum the paranoid half wits of the world have found a new barrow to push in the same direction.

**Ixion** · 12th February 2009, 21:27

Originally Posted by spudchucka

..

Eleven years and a couple of governments later and I still don't feel overly oppressed by having to submit my digital image to the Govt but ho hum the paranoid half wits of the world have found a new barrow to push in the same direction.

Perhaps you would if you were an elderly lady who had never had either drivers licence or passport. Since one or other is now , purportedly, necessary to operate a bank account. My mother had neither, so the bank refused to allow her to access her account.I spent a frustrating several hours working my way up the imbecile chain to the regional manager before that was sorted.

The drivers licence HAS become and ID card. The fears of the civil libertarians (I am not one, I don't believe in them) were justified.

And consideration of the recently exposed activities of the SIS might highlight your complacency

**McJim** · 12th February 2009, 21:28

Let's foget all this "that's fair/that's not fair" bullshit an have a totalitarian dictatorship governed via a feudal system.

I'm King so what I say goes.....and I have the right to change my mind if I feel like it!

**Gubb** · 12th February 2009, 21:31

Originally Posted by Mully

And wasn't David Blain convicted on dodgy DNA evidence too?

That smarmy "magician" who trapped himself in ice? Guilty as sin.

**Ixion** · 12th February 2009, 21:39

You can't have a totalitarian dictatorship governed via the feudal system. The two are mutually exclusive. A feudal king could not be a dictator.

In fact most of our freedoms and liberties (such as we have left, and those we have lamentably lost) derive from the feudal system . Remember, Magna Carta and all that . Where will we now find a modern Robert FitzWalter or WIlliam marshall ?

**Winston001** · 12th February 2009, 21:45

Originally Posted by Ixion

Since one or other is now , purportedly, necessary to operate a bank account. My mother had neither, so the bank refused to allow her to access her account.I spent a frustrating several hours working my way up the imbecile chain to the regional manager before that was sorted.

The drivers licence HAS become and ID card. The fears of the civil libertarians (I am not one, I don't believe in them) were justified.

And consideration of the recently exposed activities of the SIS might highlight your complacency

Yeah I'll go along with that. The photo drivers licence has become an unofficial ID. Some older people have none and it is a pain to sort out.

But cripes Ix, didn't realise the SIS were going around opening bank accounts......!! Scary stuff indeed.....or maybe you meant that wet hen, Keith Locke. Where does it say in our law that Members of Parliament don't commit crimes? Treason? Terrorism? No automatic exemption for anyone surely. Not that I think Locke is worthy of their time.

For petes sake, the vigorous left used to consider it a badge of honour to have a police file and really knew they'd arrived if the SIS took an interest. He's made it - probably an administrative mistake in his case, but hey good luck. NZs answer to Gerry Adams.

**spudchucka** · 13th February 2009, 05:21

Originally Posted by Ixion

Perhaps you would if you were an elderly lady who had never had either drivers licence or passport. Since one or other is now , purportedly, necessary to operate a bank account. My mother had neither, so the bank refused to allow her to access her account.I spent a frustrating several hours working my way up the imbecile chain to the regional manager before that was sorted.

The drivers licence HAS become and ID card. The fears of the civil libertarians (I am not one, I don't believe in them) were justified.

And consideration of the recently exposed activities of the SIS might highlight your complacency

She could have got an 18+ card.

**davereid** · 13th February 2009, 06:52

Originally Posted by Winston001

Yeah I'll go along with that. The photo drivers licence has become an unofficial ID. Some older people have none and it is a pain to sort out.

Yes, dropped my 14 year old grandaugher off at the airport after the holidays. She has no drivers licence or passport.

"where is your photo ID miss ?"

What a fuss just to get a 14 year old on a plane.

No one is saying that having to have photo ID etc etc means you live in a police state.

What we ARE saying is that these are the tools of a police state. And history shows both the paraniod and observant, that over time governments almost always "clamp down on that" or "tighten up on this".

My grandfather would possibly be surprised at just how many powers we have given our masters err representatives.

**scumdog** · 13th February 2009, 07:25

Originally Posted by davereid

.

No one is saying that having to have photo ID etc etc means you live in a police state.

I should think not.
ll manner of non-governmental organisations seem to expect people to have 'photo-I.D. - or carry their passport/bith certificate with them.