New Buell, or what?

[Big Dave]

'Sistas are doin it for themselves.' - Franklin

'I like to watch' - Gardener.

[Ocean1]

No, it's not CVT - it uses hydraulic clutches, so it's actually an electro-hydraulic automatic transmission, and MORE complicated than a typical m/cycle gearbox.
As for "how hard is it to change gears"? You have to realise a lot of Mrkns (and perhaps Yrpeens) have never driven a vehicle with manual transmission, so riding a motorcycle is a daunting prospect. Thus the market for a cruiser-styled bike with auto trans, combined braking system with ABS (like a car) is potentially huge. Lots of people who fancy a bike but can't deal with having to concentrate on changing gears for the first time will find this quite attractive (even if it is rather hideous).

All true of the Spyder auto also. If anything it's even dauntlesser, it's legally a car pretty much everywhere except Aus.

[Ocean1]

Isn't that what the firing order (etc) of the new R1 is trying to do?

Yes. Sort of. They've identified one variable in innertial momentum, different profiles in twins and IL4s. Honda had a go at the same variable years ago with what became known as the "drone".

Honda were then, and Yamaha are now probably the leading design authorities on high velocity harmonics in engines. Maybe they're onto it, but I'll believe it when I ride an R1 with a significantly V twin power characteristic.

if you are considering bmw800,v stroms,varedeo(sp) there is one bike that many people rate as better than all those......Yamah TDM 900...$15000 last time i looked,lacking in some character compared to Buells,Ducatis etc...Bloody good allrounder from my own research

I'm not, really. I'm interested in anything that does what the Buell does, but that's a bit more comfortable at commuting-type speeds.

[Ocean1]

Ducati Multistrada S.

A shortish ride it was, mostly suburban at that, still, a valid taste of what the bike might offer.

A wee look over the machine revealed no obvious quality deficits or questionable design elements. Although in passing I can’t understand why the trellis frame welds on any such iconic motorcycle can’t be as beautifully TIG crafted as the frame on any modern tredly. It sure ain’t no looker from the front quarter, but the key articulated screen feature dictates some of the fairing shape. No excuse for the lower panels though, can’t imagine how that got through any rational pre-market design review. The instrumentation is on the small side but the important bits are all there, and in keeping with the overall ergonomically “correct” theme it’s well arranged and well placed.

Gets on and has a feel. It feels remarkably similar to the Shiver, the bar/seat/peg relationship is very close, the whole lot raised an inch or two. These bars also could be a bit straighter to suit me, and here too someone’s rotated the levers up and the mirrors are looking at my knees . Also similar is the feeling of lightness, the mass can’t be unusually low but somehow it seems easy to move around. The seat feels very… supportive. That’d usually be code for “hard as a fookin’ plank” but in this case it turned out to be comfy for the 20min ride and gave the impression it’d be OK for touring.

Away we go. These Ohlin forks feel very supple, wonder if the front will dive… *bends down to look in mirrors*… BRAKES. Nope, feels fine, dips quickly but progressively stabilises nowhere near bottoming out. Second gear, and a fistful of throttle has the opposite effect, the front lifts sedately but beyond a certain point it feels like the front tyre is sucking onto the road. Try again… still 2nd, 4000rpm, full throttle, and sure enough the front lofts a foot. Too early into 4th gear, the screen shudders and the bars shake at 3000rpm, but there’s no question it’s trying, and at 3700ish it smooths out and starts to pull. Hard.

I eventually found a place to rattle through the gears, or the first 5 anyway. The claimed 97odd HP seems understated if anything, and it pulls bloody well from 4k all the way to the red with no lumps or hollows. It feels like a close match for the Buell and while probably not as quick as the Superduke it’s far more flexible, much easier to pootle around town with. On the second try around the bays I found enough space to get some idea about cornering. Almost. The fact is the bike’s capable enough, the suspension so subtle and the overall feel so planted as to give very little feedback as to where it’s rational limits might be. The riding position is familiar, but it’s quite a different sort of handling for me, velvety smooth, and there’s an impression that there’s a lot of room for me to learn on this bike.

Interesting. Very. All this, by the way, was two weekends ago, and I’m still considering whether the positives weigh heavily enough to entertain the possibility of having one of these in my gargre. I don’t really understand mate Jim’s allusion to orange afros and it’s likely that quite a few foibles and possibly some character flaws escaped me. I’d certainly want a good hour or two of close consultation with an appropriate bit of terrain before committing myself.

Oh, the joint between the tank and the lower panels is exactly where the bony lump inside my knee is. And it’s fookin’ ugly. Did someone mention the availability of alternative bodywork for these things?

[Buellluva]

Hey Ocean, just my two cents worth. Had a xb12r now for a grand total of 3 days, so I'm not overly qualified to talk yet, still in the honeymoon period. I've never had a bike that I have jumped on and felt so at home in the corners, went through the Kaipara coast highway, Coastesville-Riverhead, and Peak roads today ( all primo twistie territory), and I'm damn sure I never ridden them so fast. The weird thing is I wasn't really even pushing that hard, it seemed effortless. Up in Akl at KTM in Western Springs they have a XB12r set up with high rise bars, I never got to ride it, but sat on it and the bars moved cleanly from side to side with no hitting of the fairing. Stick with the Buells mate, I'm sure there's a solution (bar the pootling, they suck at that).

[Ocean1]

I've never had a bike that I have jumped on and felt so at home in the corners, went through the Kaipara coast highway, Coastesville-Riverhead, and Peak roads today ( all primo twistie territory), and I'm damn sure I never ridden them so fast. The weird thing is I wasn't really even pushing that hard, it seemed effortless.

Sounds like good times. I rode Katikati to Gisbourne Via Ruatoria a few days ago, Opotiki to Te Araoa was stunning, bay to headland to bay...

Up in Akl at KTM in Western Springs they have a XB12r set up with high rise bars, I never got to ride it, but sat on it and the bars moved cleanly from side to side with no hitting of the fairing. Stick with the Buells mate, I'm sure there's a solution (bar the pootling, they suck at that).

Haven't given up on that option, and even if there's a minor clash with the fairing I've worked out a fix that orta see it work fine. But like I said, when it comes to alternatives I don't know what I don't know, y'know? So I is educating m'self.

You enjoy that XB mate.

[Big Dave]

If I walk into the shed and see a black ZX14 (eg) there are physiological effects triggered by the sight. Pleasure centers release their enzymes, purely on the visual of the machine.

The multistrada is a very capable, balanced motorcycle. I walk into the shed and see external plumbing and a Darlek.

[Krayy]

By the by...Gunnyrob and I rode to Wairoa via the Waikaremoana road a couple of weekends back, and I every time I nicked past him on the dirt, the STT and me backslid into the distance while Herr Rob unt ze grosse Beemer became a speck in the mirrors.

Uly be damned, the STT is very capable on the C roads.

P.S. Note to self...never give it the wellie in 1st on the dirt...even saved highsides on gravel are not fun

[Ocean1]

If I walk into the shed and see a black ZX14 (eg) there are physiological effects triggered by the sight. Pleasure centers release their enzymes, purely on the visual of the machine.

The multistrada is a very capable, balanced motorcycle. I walk into the shed and see external plumbing and a Darlek.

If you walk into my shed you'll probably see all sorts of shit you don't like. A comfortable majority of consumer preference is either sculpted by clever-dickie marketing or herded by that almost osmotic tribal conformist psychology which we believe prevents our peers laughing at us. I’m less susceptible than some, first, I care not a jot if they laugh, and second, I are a enjeneer, I see beauty in functional perfection. A cunningly crafted bracket which does six different structural jobs and three functional ones makes me smile.

Having said that it’s true that a machine is more than it’s collected parts, no matter how cleverly designed they are. The Dalek, (the red one, the real ones were pieces of shit) is the result of a bottom-up design process, well thought out minor elements joined together in a way that works well. The Buell is the opposite, a top-down design process. That usually tends to produce more holistic, aesthetically pleasing results, sometimes at the expense of clumsy or overly complex detail work. Buell avoided that by the simple expediency of omitting most of the detail.

So, while I can cringe at the looks of the Dalek bodywork I'm aware that few "semi-naked" bikes succeed in the beauty stakes, (I won't upset anyone by naming names), and that wouldn't stop me buying what otherwise seems a functionally excellent bike. It would encourage me to explore options for corrective surgery, though.

Besides, it amuses me to think of the hoards of dedicated followers of fashion having to back up any crap talk with a wee walk with that Dalek.

[Ocean1]

Note to self...never give it the wellie in 1st on the dirt...even saved highsides on gravel are not fun

Meh. Find some decent knobblies.

[Crisis management]

Glad you tried the Multistrudel, I thought you may find it interesting, if it had a 21" front rim I'd be riding one now. However I'm now saving my Ducati adventure bike experience for a modified monster when I can find one cheap enough, long may the recession continue....

What about the RC8, have you tried that yet?

[Ocean1]

Glad you tried the Multistrudel, I thought you may find it interesting, if it had a 21" front rim I'd be riding one now.

Is the conversion hideously complicated?

However I'm now saving my Ducati adventure bike experience for a modified monster when I can find one cheap enough, long may the recession continue....

Which one? And modified how?

What about the RC8, have you tried that yet?

I've resisted the temptation. Had a wee feel, nice machine, but it doesn't go anywhere near the minimum touring aspect...

Does it?

[Crisis management]

Is the conversion hideously complicated?



Which one? And modified how?



I've resisted the temptation. Had a wee feel, nice machine, but it doesn't go anywhere near the minimum touring aspect...

Does it?

Short answers:
Yes.
Suspension.......and lots of other stuff!
Define touring.

Longer answers:
I lust after Ducatis' and really enjoy the engine and ride quality however, the Multi really wasn't going to hack it as an adventure bike with the little front wheel and I wasn't going to fork out 14k for one and then start buggering around with the suspension and wheels. The 990 was a better fit as an immediate purchase ( I still reckon you should try an Adventure they really are awesome once you get used to standing and punting them along!).

The monster as an adventure bike....if I can pick up one cheaply enough and resuspend it with something of say, a 450exc, I can enjoy the drivetrain/noise/ducatisti stuff I like with the ability to travel the roads and terrain I like. Actually, I just like the idea of building a special and the combination of a snarling Vee twin and knobblie tyres really gets me going! I know there are the likes of the 990 SE available but a one off has it's attractions.

The RC8? It just seems like a neat idea to try one out, I doubt it's anywhere near a touring bike but KTM make good tools and this one I feel is very underated at present.




Ok, so maybe not the RC8 but its the interweeb so I'm allowed the odd outrageous suggestion.

[Ocean1]

The worlds fattest chook chaser, and the Bro's new toy.

And we ALWAYS share toys.

Besides, I'm still bigger.

This is a serious piece of kit, which you'd sort of expect, given that it's a) Churman, and b) BMW's top shelf / flagship adv machine. It's festooned with gadgets, some of which make sense, (but you'd personally probably not bother) and some which can be explained only by a massive overkill in the R&D budget. Like the super lightweight unobtanium front brake reservoir guard, located immediately behind the... other, (ubercomposite) front brake reservoir guard.

Interesting ride, it's very tall, obviously, but it seems to fit me OK. Apart from, (like almost everything else) too much pull-back in the bars. Lots of knobs and buttons on hand but most of them make sense, although I did have to be pointed at the starter. Starting it's interesting, thumbing the button and twitching the throttle produces a very healthy lurch to the right, you'd want to be carefull doing it on the side of a decent hill. Away we go.

Given it's capacity there's not a lot of stonk below 3500, over that, well, it's enough. Seems little point pushing it past about 6000, it makes more noise but no more power. Six gears to select from, but they're very very close together, most of the time you can chose from 4 to keep it in it's 3500 to 6000 sweet spot. It falls into corners at the merest hint, and the 2" cube knobs rumble as it leans. Conversely, it takes an act of concious input to pull it up again.

It's deceptively quick, when you get to that comfort-zone when you automatically check the clock I was mildly surprised to see I was well beyond legal. The huge KNOBS behaved quite differently to the more common dirt version, no discernible knob-walk, in fact they felt very much like "standard" touring rubber. On the gravel you bacame aware that the bike was more stable though. Weirdly, given the upright position, I noticed there was a bit more weight on my arms than I'd expect. May have just been the fact that my right wrist is playing up again.

All in all it couldn't be more different to the Buell, it really does feel like a big trailie. It's very comfortable and the bigish upright screen does a good job, the only wind at my shoulders. Given the time of year the screen rapidly got liberally plastered with livestock out around the lake, but it did tend to give the larger beasties just enough lift to guide dozens of them smack into my face.

It's quite buzzy, although it's not clear how much of that is the rubber. There's plans to change them for something a bit less agressive, given that it's not likely to get fully dirty, so it'll be interesting to try again then. Huge tankage, like "that'll be $56.00 please sir", although you'd expect to hear that only every 760k, apparently.

Interesting. A most excellent machine for prolonged touring and the odd off-piste shortcut.

Cool bike.

But not for me, thanks.