Council blames speed yet again where road condition obviously at fault

**popelli** · 12th March 2009, 18:35

Originally Posted by merv

So the road just sitting there is at fault, what ever happened to driver judgement? What if this had been a gravel road which guys like me and Motu love?

Eyes and brain power come into this - drive (or ride for bikers) to what you see. if you can't see far enough ahead, slow down until you are comfortable with it.

I will rue the day all motorcycle enjoyable roads will be so straight, smooth and boring I will lose interest in the past-time. OK, OK some will bleat on at me but this is a poorly maintained road, but no road gets like that over night and locals should know the road and foreigners should drive according to what they see first time. No excuses excepted as far as I am concerned.

agree with all of the above

for every 1 person who has an accident there are 100's who don't

you can blame the road, you can blame the council, you can blame the poorly maintained vehicle you were driving but isn't it about time that people involved in accidents took repsonsibility for driving beyond their abilities

**The Pastor** · 12th March 2009, 20:00

it dosent even cost that much.

strip it back to subgrade - inspect and repair

wack 150 gap65 and then 100 ap40 then 35mm hotmix on top.

sorted. I should be a roading engineer.

**HungusMaximist** · 12th March 2009, 20:33

Originally Posted by merv

So the road just sitting there is at fault, what ever happened to driver judgement? What if this had been a gravel road which guys like me and Motu love?

Eyes and brain power come into this - drive (or ride for bikers) to what you see. if you can't see far enough ahead, slow down until you are comfortable with it.

I will rue the day all motorcycle enjoyable roads will be so straight, smooth and boring I will lose interest in the past-time. OK, OK some will bleat on at me but this is a poorly maintained road, but no road gets like that over night and locals should know the road and foreigners should drive according to what they see first time. No excuses excepted as far as I am concerned.

We're talking about car drivers mate, and no matter how many times you guys blat on KB about common sense and shit like that it ant gonna change a thing.

People are people and they're consistently gonna be stupid. If the majority of the car drivers have an ounce of what motorcyclists have a deal with, I'd be fucken grateful.

Waitak council fix the funking road mate! And Andrew, do us all a favour and send the stuff you wrote here to the council or at least the papers.

You'll be surprised at the results!

**motorbyclist** · 12th March 2009, 21:55

Originally Posted by merv

So the road just sitting there is at fault, what ever happened to driver judgement? What if this had been a gravel road which guys like me and Motu love?

Eyes and brain power come into this - drive (or ride for bikers) to what you see. if you can't see far enough ahead, slow down until you are comfortable with it.

first off, i do agree with you on principle, but this case is a bit of an exception in a few regards;
it is a BUSY road, not some track out in the wops.
we pay for roads to be up to a reasonably safe standard. this road is unacceptably sub-par.
the council had failed to recognise (or will not admit) the true cause of this death.

infact, i had always assumed the sudden increase in crashes was just to a sudden decrease in driver competence (new subdivision just went in)

but it would appear that in the wet, which is when this death occurred, you couldn't see the road leak,right at it's most dangerous.

the simple fact is that we can't possibly be expected to maintain 30kph around every corner** - which was the only safe speed to approach this corner in it's old state; a sudden drop from the 70 that drivers were used to doing in teh wet.

**which in auckland is a VERY effective way to be rear ended

i see today they put up a sign saying 45. good. it still doesn't excuse them for failing to keep busy roads up to a safe standard.

**motorbyclist** · 12th March 2009, 21:58

Originally Posted by renegade master

it dosent even cost that much.

strip it back to subgrade - inspect and repair

wack 150 gap65 and then 100 ap40 then 35mm hotmix on top.

sorted. I should be a roading engineer.

now, this really needs the rest of the photos to explain, but most of the issues are just those of poor drainage, causing the clay underneath to become waterlogged.

we get springs in the middle of our roads. half the intersection of candia and sturges slipped off the hill last year. it's yet to be fixed since they drained it and surrounded it with orange hirepool barriers... they also put in some very permanent looking "temporary" signs

**Tone165** · 12th March 2009, 23:46

Originally Posted by merv

So the road just sitting there is at fault, what ever happened to driver judgement? What if this had been a gravel road which guys like me and Motu love?

Eyes and brain power come into this - drive (or ride for bikers) to what you see. if you can't see far enough ahead, slow down until you are comfortable with it.

I will rue the day all motorcycle enjoyable roads will be so straight, smooth and boring I will lose interest in the past-time. OK, OK some will bleat on at me but this is a poorly maintained road, but no road gets like that over night and locals should know the road and foreigners should drive according to what they see first time. No excuses excepted as far as I am concerned.

Dont you think it is reasonable to expect that a road should at least be in safe condition to start with?

Ok..it rains, oil gets spilled, mud, gravel, cow shite, drunks, tyre debris...all normal hazards, and conditions that have to be allowed for.

I still say that you have a right to expect a certain standard!

**mozzee** · 13th March 2009, 02:26

I live out these ways too...the roads are getting worse week by week.

If you turn onto Simpson Road from Candia the road is even worse. Not only are there huge cracks and drops in the road (worse then the pictures shown above), but they are in a corner! This is a 70km/h area, and the corner doesn't have any speed advisory signs. There are no street lights - so almost impossible to see the condition of the road. I would hate to think that somebody on a bike would approach this corner and not be aware of what lay ahead...and that’s not even considering what would happen if the weather was wet. There is atleast a 25cm slip in the tar seal - hitting this on a bike wouldn't be pretty. These cracks cover the whole left hand side of the road, so the only way to avoid it would be to go on the wrong side of the road, which is impossible when turning into a left hand bend.

I totally agree about the pathetic road signage on Candia Road. I think the worst is when you’re heading down towards Henderson Valley. There are a couple 45km/h corners. The first you can easily do at twice that speed. So you casually cruise into the second corner - and suddenly it tightens. Shouldn't these corners be the same?

I'm not sure why we continue to pay increased rates when the work being done in the area is pathetic. I won't even begin to discuss the dramas of Forest Hill Road for the last few years...(a slip that took years to fix and then traffic lights and speed bumps for months...pffft!!!!!) - BUT they have got a beautiful new roundabout and flower beds at the bottom of the street now.

Oh oh and before I forget (while I'm venting) there is a solar speed monitor thingy down the bottom of Forest Hill Road, before Holdens Road, in the 70km/h area. This is about 50-100m before the speed sign showing 50km/h....BUT...if you are going over 50km/h it tells you to "slow down" - why? It's a 70km/h zone? And...to make matters even worse - the solar panel on top of this pole has been stolen about 5-6 times and it keeps getting replaced! What a waste of money? These can't be cheap. This solar panel speed signy thing has absolutely no purpose; it's not even in the correct speed zone?!

Oh and one more thing (still venting) - why are the lights in the stairwell always on in the Waitakere Council building? Even at 2am? 24 hours a day the lights are on. There's no staff working. Yet there are atleast 50 bulbs on in the building. Why do we spend money on this?

Oh and just one more (last thing I promise)... you know those new traffic light things they've put on all the motorway on ramps... why are they always on even when they're not being used. The sign is lit up saying "Ramp Signal Off” – well duh – don’t you think we’d figure that out when we got to the lights and they weren’t switching to red? And because there’s no queue of cars lined up trying to get on the motorway? We have this sign lit up for nearly 22 hours a day just to advise that the ramp signals aren’t being used? So much for ‘clean green’ NZ – What a joke!

It seems to be a never ending problem in this country. They never fix anything properly before they start on the next project. And by the time they finish that one the crappy job they did last time is once again due for repair!!!!

**samgab** · 13th March 2009, 12:04

Originally Posted by mozzee

...Oh oh and before I forget (while I'm venting)...
...Oh and one more thing (still venting)...
...Oh and just one more (last thing I promise)...What a joke!...

So much anger! I think you're about to pop.

**peasea** · 13th March 2009, 13:35

Originally Posted by HungusMaximist

We're talking about car drivers mate, and no matter how many times you guys blat on KB about common sense and shit like that it ant gonna change a thing.

People are people and they're consistently gonna be stupid. If the majority of the car drivers have an ounce of what motorcyclists have a deal with, I'd be fucken grateful.

Waitak council fix the funking road mate! And Andrew, do us all a favour and send the stuff you wrote here to the council or at least the papers.

You'll be surprised at the results!

You're right. Send copies to local council, regional council, local papers, The Herald, the Minister of Transport, the LTSA (or whatever they call themselves these days) TVNZ/TV3 and don't forget your MP. Squeaky wheels sometimes DO get the oil. While having a rant on kb is all fine and dandy it won't get you very far in the real world.

Get tapping, fire off the copies and keep us posted.

Good luck, and don't forget; your efforts might save a life...

**merv** · 13th March 2009, 15:26

I think you were all getting my point but I do see a lot of blame someone else here and all the comments seem to be talking about regular users of the roads and concerns about signage blah blah blah, so should such people have endorsed licences that don't allow them to use roads they do not have route knowledge on? How could they possibly cope with driving way out onto back country roads they've never seen if they can't handle their regular route?

Sure I agree that we should get good roads through paying rates etc but that surely is more about service provision, but safety has to come back to the individuals judgement or soon we'll all be like Yanks, if their aint a warning sign written in the car about it or on the road or on a bike's petrol tank we better be suing someone for the error they made us make.

How many on this forum have gone on about the nanny state under Labour? Well blaming others always leads to more rules to penalise the many for the sake of the few, so you'll get your speed limits lowered and more yellow lines painted and more passing lanes closed on you because finding more money to make all the roads "safer" won't happen over night.

**MSTRS:Me** · 13th March 2009, 15:33

Originally Posted by merv

....more rules to penalise the many for the sake of the few, so you'll get your speed limits lowered and more yellow lines painted and more passing lanes closed on you because finding more money to make all the roads "safer" won't happen over night.

Noooo. All we ask for is for UNsafe roads to be made safe(r). The road(s) this thread refers to is/are an absolute disgrace, have gone beyond dangerous, and make a mockery of all the supposed initiatives like straightening corners, yellow lines, reduced speed limits etc.

**merv** · 13th March 2009, 16:00

Well if that road is UNsafe then these must be almost unmentionable http://pro.corbis.com/images/IH17437...5531C1B8A5D%7D http://www.temple.edu/bioanthro/imag...itz/IMG004.jpg how could those people even use those roads with all those ruts?

Maybe that's another solution, the council could go rip the seal off and grade the road to make it "safer". The level of service would drop of course.

**MSTRS:Me** · 13th March 2009, 16:05

I guess one could always only use this threads road/s if one was driving a vehicle built to deal with them?
Unfortunately, the 'average' modern car or bike falls outside this category and our roads are (or should be) engineered and finished with that in mind.