Pro-Twin discussion

[Robert Taylor]

sorry mate re shocks. Just rephrased that comment.
Shock wise My point is to limit the $$$$$ being spent.
No reason a penske,WP,ohlins ex gixxer thou etc shock cant be fitted but there has to be a means of establishing a price break. Maybee no remote resevoir. (Im not up to speed enough to be able to state the means just the intent)My point was that as an example RT when building say 20 XYZ shocks could put different damping and springs to suit different rider weights so the comment about disadvantaging heavy riders isnt true.

================================================== ====
Re Control Tyres --HECK YEA but heres the rub Running control tyres must be to ADVANTAGE the riders.
Id suggest that the next years PT contract be offered to all the tyre companys --Dunlop,metzler,pirelli,conti, etc
Whoever comes up with the best deal on tyres gets that years control tyre.
Of course the bikes have to display a sponser sticker for that brand.
Im in no way stuck on that idea but it would I feel reduce individual riders costs.
For the jokers gonna say --ohh what if chen shin etc put their hand up -clearly the riders wouldnt use rubbish tyres

Control fuel wise -um aint we already doing that? -Not trying to get a point in here just I thought we had to use commercially available pump gas.

The one thing Im keen on is reducing rhe money spent on engines.
Again the poms seem to have hit the right formula with a 75hp limit.
They arent haveing the issues the yanks are having with exploding engines. Spena a million bucks on ya engine but if it makes more than 75--yer out

Sorry Frosty you misinterpreted. Heavyweight / lightweight riders would be disadvantaged were they not allowed to run spring rates correct for them with complimentary valving changes.

[Robert Taylor]

Personally I think some of whats being said here is not true.

1/ What does a set of aftermarket rearsets cost? How many OEM replacements would this buy. Also bear in mind its easy to get these repaired by welding.

2/ The std SV650 sucked for WT because he's used to riding alot better performance bikes. If he had come off an RG150 he would think the SV was the bees knees!

3/ All the talk about high tyrewear etc on a SV with std shocks is just not true. I've done several trackdays that involves much longer sints on the track than a raceday and my second hand castoffs have come off looking great with very even wear. I'm not the fastest guy on the track but I was capable of running near the front in F3 at club level the one year I did compete.

4/ Apart from the fact the tank sticks out the sides too far SVs crash better than 600s and 1000s do. Probably because they are going slower and have much more substantual frames. Crash bungs go a long way to minimising the damage.

5/ As for accomadating the fat and skinny folk this is PC crap. Why not help out fatty in streetstock by letting him have another 50cc! Laughable. What about all the poor skinny chaps that wanna be sumo wresters. Man my heart goes out to them. Fat guys usually end up riding Harleys so lets bring back Sportster racing. Seriously allowing springs and oil to be changed is as far as this should go.


Just another point of interest how many ProTwin racers run the huge OEM battery? If you read the rules no mention is made of being able to run a different sized battery so technically anyone who did is a cheat!


Disclaimer:
The views posted above are not necessarily the opinions of the person who posted it.

Well, given your stated position in the world why didnt you front up at the Nationals with your stock shock, your ''second hand castoffs'' and no tyre warmers??
Im sure many people are itching to hear......................
If you actually knew something about suspension that would be fine. But as it stands you use so many words to say so little.

[Billy]

yea cheating is low and uncalled for. I hold my head high and proud in knowing i won on a bike that was completly legal

Yip and when the opposition pointed out things that may be illegal you went out of your way to fix them right down to the last hour before leaving for the South Island,While they carried on building bikes that would not have passed a tech inspection themselves.Futhermore comparing Karl and Sams Championships and laptimes is ridiculous too say the least,They werent even at the track in the same year let alone day and anybody who has actually raced a bike would understand atmospheric conditions and an ability to know when you have to win a race and when you dont to win the championship all contribute to how fast you need to go at a given time.To claim that suspension or tyres or whatever else part of the bike was entirely responsible is a joke to say the least.Sams 2009 season started while his ankle was healing from his 2008 mishap and gained momentum from there. He won because he was the most commited rider out there and he wanted it far more than anybody else end of story.Once again well done Sam and I hope you can secure yourself a good 600 ride for the 2010 season

[evol mas]

cheers for your support and help billy much appreciated m8!!!!!

WT haha body paint and air horns only come out on special occasions ... paeroa!!
i had fun and hopfully a few other people had a laugh aswell cos at the end of the day isnt that what racing bikes is suposd to be about..... having fun!!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Yip and when the opposition pointed out things that may be illegal you went out of your way to fix them right down to the last hour before leaving for the South Island,While they carried on building bikes that would not have passed a tech inspection themselves.Futhermore comparing Karl and Sams Championships and laptimes is ridiculous too say the least,They werent even at the track in the same year let alone day and anybody who has actually raced a bike would understand atmospheric conditions and an ability to know when you have to win a race and when you dont to win the championship all contribute to how fast you need to go at a given time.To claim that suspension or tyres or whatever else part of the bike was entirely responsible is a joke to say the least.Sams 2009 season started while his ankle was healing from his 2008 mishap and gained momentum from there. He won because he was the most commited rider out there and he wanted it far more than anybody else end of story.Once again well done Sam and I hope you can secure yourself a good 600 ride for the 2010 season

I second that

[svracer12]

you forgot to mention the motor that previous to this either shat outta this bike or his previous one. the meet before nationals begun

yes my motor did blow up but it was a factory fault with one of the conrods. it would have happined even if it was still on the road.

[GSVR]

Well, given your stated position in the world why didnt you front up at the Nationals with your stock shock, your ''second hand castoffs'' and no tyre warmers??
Im sure many people are itching to hear......................
If you actually knew something about suspension that would be fine. But as it stands you use so many words to say so little.

Thanks. Glad I don't know too much about suspension its seems like one hell of a frustrating subject.

[FROSTY:Me]

Sorry Frosty you misinterpreted. Heavyweight / lightweight riders would be disadvantaged were they not allowed to run spring rates correct for them with complimentary valving changes.

Hmm sounds like we are on the same page here Rob just sayin it different. Ill try to rephrase so Im saying it "right'.
Given Its you Im talking to as an example
You say YES I can build a rear TTX1254/735 Ohlins shock for pro twins bikes for $1300. The rider then tells you his weight and you set the spring weight and valving AT BUILD to suit his weight.
Then if a decidedly heavier/lighter rider buys the bike they contact you and send shock for respring /revalve or perhaps just exchange.
Same with the front end and use of emmulators and different weight springs.
The point isnt to dumb it down because still they will need to set the shocks up to suit style and track but it does reduce cost.
Incidently suspension is NOT the main area of concern. its the "other stuff"

[FROSTY:Me]

He won because he was the most commited rider out there and he wanted it far more than anybody else end of story.Once again well done Sam and I hope you can secure yourself a good 600 ride for the 2010 season

Hey Billly Sorry mate if it comes across Im having a go at the riders in pro twins Im DEFINITELY not.
My issue is that I see the potential for a friggin fantastic race class but its been stuffed up--MY OPINION.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks. Glad I don't know too much about suspension its seems like one hell of a frustrating subject.

More than you realise...............

[Robert Taylor]

It's a valid point. For a `control class' there is now quite a bit of additional cost and development involved in producing a competitive bike.

Not entirely true, we develop good ''baseline specs'' from development that then get passed on with future sales. If I charged the true cost it would be unaffordable. Hardly a big bad capitalist then am I?

[oyster]

Robert, I don't want to "take you on" but please realise "emulator" is a generic word in the english language. See your dictionary. MNZ rules refer to these in exactly this way. No reference to Traxxion Dynamics, Gold Valve, Suzuki, XZY Manuf co or whoever else makes emulators. I built and fitted emulators to the definition of the Oxford dictionary and MNZ rules, to which they definitely comply. To cast doubt that these are prohibited is a bit rough.
To suggest counterfeiting is a bit rough too. That business is about the wholesale mass manufacturing of items while branding with original's name.
IE fake Addidas (note mispelling) shoes. The items in Patrick's bike are proudly (GP winning ) Oyster Emulators.
I appreciate what you contribute Robert, but it's not for everybody, as Frosty also points out, to have a top spec bike as a REQUIREMENT to get on the track and have fun, develop their riding and do it safely.

[Billy]

Hey Billly Sorry mate if it comes across Im having a go at the riders in pro twins Im DEFINITELY not.
My issue is that I see the potential for a friggin fantastic race class but its been stuffed up--MY OPINION.

No offence taken mate,I fully agree with you.The class should have been a production class ie:Slip on muffler if you want,Replica of original fibreglass only and sticky tyres.Everything else is added cost for no good reason,Its pretty much how racing was back in the 80s and 90s.Remember that?53 riders in National points races 250 proddy,Good close racing right through the feild and produced some of the best racers to come out of this country.Pro Twins under its current format will NEVER duplicate that.Having said all that I doubt very much either Karl or Sam would have been threatened.Bring back a Production based class where riders can have a competitive bike for $10,000.00 or less and the results will speak for themselves.Furthermore some of the people that get on this website and try and tell us different were there during those golden years and saw it

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, I don't want to "take you on" but please realise "emulator" is a generic word in the english language. See your dictionary. MNZ rules refer to these in exactly this way. No reference to Traxxion Dynamics, Gold Valve, Suzuki, XZY Manuf co or whoever else makes emulators. I built and fitted emulators to the definition of the Oxford dictionary and MNZ rules, to which they definitely comply. To cast doubt that these are prohibited is a bit rough.
To suggest counterfeiting is a bit rough too. That business is about the wholesale mass manufacturing of items while branding with original's name.
IE fake Addidas (note mispelling) shoes. The items in Patrick's bike are proudly (GP winning ) Oyster Emulators.
I appreciate what you contribute Robert, but it's not for everybody, as Frosty also points out, to have a top spec bike as a REQUIREMENT to get on the track and have fun, develop their riding and do it safely.

No intention of casting doubt as such ( that came out a little wrong and if it sounds rough I duly apologise ) but if someone built a better emulator then go for it. Ive often thought of it but time is too prohibitive.
There are options for everybody in terms of what they wish to budget, what I object to ( in general ) is the culture of envy that still reigns in this country. As opposed to the culture of hard work ad ambition.

[Robert Taylor]

No offence taken mate,I fully agree with you.The class should have been a production class ie:Slip on muffler if you want,Replica of original fibreglass only and sticky tyres.Everything else is added cost for no good reason,Its pretty much how racing was back in the 80s and 90s.Remember that?53 riders in National points races 250 proddy,Good close racing right through the feild and produced some of the best racers to come out of this country.Pro Twins under its current format will NEVER duplicate that.Having said all that I doubt very much either Karl or Sam would have been threatened.Bring back a Production based class where riders can have a competitive bike for $10,000.00 or less and the results will speak for themselves.Furthermore some of the people that get on this website and try and tell us different were there during those golden years and saw it

Yes 250 proddy was great but we dont appear to have any low cost 250s any more that are suitable for racing. Racing with stock damper rod ''wallow sticks'' Youve got to be nuts. Times have moved on and we cannot live in the past.