Calling all suspension gurus

[dammad1]

what did you pay? if you dont mind me asking.

Moto SR was about $700 for both ends, Mark patterson was about the same for my old KDX including front springs but I can't quite remember what he charged me for my last KTM, Mark is a real good guy and has been doing suspension for a long time and Richie at Moto SR was also excellent and very thorough.

[pete.ktm]

No is the short answer but if you find someone let me know. I want to re-valve my KTM forks and was thinking i'd send em to Danger simply cos i've heard (read) his knowledge

looks like it's TSS then. if i was doing anything other than just an oil change and general check i would have sent them away.

still they quoted $300 so i bloody better notice some difference (although in another thread someone mentioned that ktm seals alone cost $145!)

[kezzafish]

looks like it's TSS then. if i was doing anything other than just an oil change and general check i would have sent them away.

still they quoted $300 so i bloody better notice some difference (although in another thread someone mentioned that ktm seals alone cost $145!)

I'd have a go myself if i was you (but i'm not) i've done single cartridge fork seals before but am a bit scared to pull apart my twin cartridge forks and do valves (don't know what this involves).

$300 sounds a bit steep. Call Danger, there's a link to his website (proride) if you click on his name so you'll have to find a post of his but that won't be hard. At least this'll give you a second pricing opinion to base your decision apon. I'd rather support him than TSS. He's put hours of time into this forum sharing his vast knowledge (just like many in here) and offered me a good price for re valving. You may even want to look at this if you think it could help your bikes performance as he knows EXCs very well

[pete.ktm]

I'd have a go myself if i was you

i'm sure i could do the basic oil change but i probably wouldn't be able to identify any parts thats needed replacing.

$300 sounds a bit steep. Call Danger

it does sounds like too much, i'd expect some performance modifications for that money so will check what they're going to do before i drop it off.

i'd have liked to give it to danger to do his thing but this week isn't a good one for me to be removing forks and arranging couriers etc. On Saturday i can whip them off and take them to TSS. Hopefully they'll give me a money back guarantee

[Reckless]

Just got back from Dangers house setting up the sag, bolt torques etc after a re valve and new springs both ends for my fat butt!! $300 sounds a lot for change the oil and seals. A complete re valve where he takes the time to even machine some parts was only a bit more than your 300. He also knows Ktm's especially well and he does Karl Powers Ktm race bikes so he has an automatic good fast test rider all for himself. He spent a bit of time pointing out where most tuners go a bit wrong with the Ktm in the mid valve area so this may sound like an ad for him but its worth the courier fee and wait time in my opinion! Personally I'd miss a ride or two and get him to do it especially when your nearly at his re valve price for just the oil and seals.

I'll let you know how mine goes after Sundays ride!

[Sidewinder]

i want to get my suspention setup for my weight, whos the crowd to see??

Robert taylor would be the best i know of

[flyingcr250]

Robert taylor would be the best i know of

just gotta get things sorted with redrider bout my graphics(im lazy) then i think ill be up to see danger. does he set the sag aswell?? obviously id have to take the bike up to him.

[CRF119]

Give Derek Houghton a call or email him on 07 848 2008 or derek_h@ihug.co.nz he is in hamilton its D&D Racing Ltd

[Waxxa]

if you have the bikes' manual it will tell the standard set up when it is shipped out.

with that baseline already set, you need to calculate what each 'click' on your suspension is/to weight, then set the suspension accordingly to your weight.

Its pretty easy...

[flyingcr250]

if you have the bikes' manual it will tell the standard set up when it is shipped out.

with that baseline already set, you need to calculate what each 'click' on your suspension is/to weight, then set the suspension accordingly to your weight.

Its pretty easy...

ive got no manual..... ill just wait till i see danger..

[Reckless]

just gotta get things sorted with redrider bout my graphics(im lazy) then i think ill be up to see danger. does he set the sag aswell?? obviously id have to take the bike up to him.

He'll set the sag and teach you his way and come up with some settings for you to try!

[cs363]

if you have the bikes' manual it will tell the standard set up when it is shipped out.

with that baseline already set, you need to calculate what each 'click' on your suspension is/to weight, then set the suspension accordingly to your weight.

Its pretty easy...

The clickers don't have jack shit to do with your weight - that is what the springs are for and why you need to have the correct rate springs for your weight. It's rare that the factory set up will be correct for most riders, it might be close for some, but the reality is that most people will need to change springs at one or both ends to attain the ideal setup.

Valving needs to be dialled in to your weight and riding style - for instance an MX setting isn't going to suit an enduro rider or a trail rider and vice versa. Plus everyone has personal preferences within these generalisations.

On that note, the clickers are generally pretty useless too unless your internal valving is sorted as they are (on the majority of bikes) just a fine tuning device. Think of them as being similar to the air screw on your carby - if the jetting isn't right twiddling that isn't going to change the way your bike runs!

Checking your sag measurements (for free sag and rider sag) will give you a good indication of whether your standard springs are in the ballpark or not.
To be honest most original manuals aren't much help - best to get some info from someone who specialises in suspension.

Robert Taylor on here has a very good set up brochure available that he'd probably email you if you PM him, this details how to measure your sag and goes into more detail on the issues I've touched on above.

[Robert Taylor]

Just got back from Dangers house setting up the sag, bolt torques etc after a re valve and new springs both ends for my fat butt!! $300 sounds a lot for change the oil and seals. A complete re valve where he takes the time to even machine some parts was only a bit more than your 300. He also knows Ktm's especially well and he does Karl Powers Ktm race bikes so he has an automatic good fast test rider all for himself. He spent a bit of time pointing out where most tuners go a bit wrong with the Ktm in the mid valve area so this may sound like an ad for him but its worth the courier fee and wait time in my opinion! Personally I'd miss a ride or two and get him to do it especially when your nearly at his re valve price for just the oil and seals.

I'll let you know how mine goes after Sundays ride!

$300 is cheap! Remember though the old adage ''the cheapest job is very seldom the best job'' You can buy lots of cheap things at the Warehouse and you know the rest....

And in general..........................

Simplistically: SPRINGS ARE ABOUT POSITION ( AND SAG RATIOS )

DAMPING IS ABOUT CONTROLLING RATE OF CHANGE OF POSITION

External clickers and spring preload adjusters are NOT a magic fix all to make the bike easily adaptable from the lightest to the heaviest riders.
The spring rates must be suitable for the rider weight, it matters not whether you have ''the flavour of the month valves'' or the best you can buy ( Ohlins ) If the spring rates are not correct for you the bike just wont work properly. Yes that means buying springs and that is proportional to how far you value your own safety and competitiveness.

[pete.ktm]

The spring rates must be suitable for the rider weight, it matters not whether you have ''the flavour of the month valves'' or the best you can buy ( Ohlins ) If the spring rates are not correct for you the bike just wont work properly.

was just about to order some stiffer springs after playing with my sag, but thought i'd do it after riding this weekend if i wasn't happy.

question is does a heavier rider still need stiffer springs if he's doing trail rides and maybe bottoming the shock once or twice and not really likely to be busting 60 foot jumps (i wish).

and while the experts are here... if i set my ktm to 35mm static sag my race sag is 125mm, it should be 115mm. until i decide about the spring do i ride it at the correct static sag or do i adjust the shock so i have the correct race sag? a couple of search results say the ktms have got to have 35mm static.

cheers.

[Reckless]

$300 is cheap! Remember though the old adage ''the cheapest job is very seldom the best job'' You can buy lots of .

I know you Rob and you are probably the best out of all. Danger is one of your registered Race tech guys and he's local for me and the most helpful guy around. So I went local for my dirt bike. He tends to specialise a bit in Ktm as well. His fees are more than the $300 for a revalve I think my words where "for a little more" not $300 flat as you indicate. I didn't want to start quoting prices on his behalf in public, you see! In my case you'd add front and rear springs to the front revalve, he uses race tech springs and says they are the only ones to use for dependable spring rates.
So you'd have to add together many hundreds to get to what I just spent setting my new bike up for my weight.

I'm pretty confident I have one of the best jobs, no matter what it may have cost.
You may be jumping to quickly to preconceived conclusions to soon my friend!

was just about to order some stiffer springs after playing with my sag, but thought i'd do it after riding this weekend if i wasn't happy.

question is does a heavier rider still need stiffer springs if he's doing trail rides and maybe bottoming the shock once or twice and not really likely to be busting 60 foot jumps (i wish).

and while the experts are here... if i set my ktm to 35mm static sag my race sag is 125mm, it should be 115mm. until i decide about the spring do i ride it at the correct static sag or do i adjust the shock so i have the correct race sag? a couple of search results say the ktms have got to have 35mm static.

cheers.

Look Rob's probably going to post and prove me wrong but that way I see it static sag is only and indication that your spring is right or wrong. So your doing it backwards as a huge amount of people do! First you set rider sag, than if static sag doesn't come in with what it should be your rear spring is wrong. Front springs are worked out for you by the tuner or go to the race tech site and there is a very good system there. You can't guess it by going for a ride and swapping springs! Its calculated for your bike and rider weight with gear. With the correct spring fitted you set the rider sag say 110 or 115mm and the static sag should automatically be within range. Taking into account your allowance for stiction of coarse.
So if you set rider sag to 35mm with a too soft spring it will ride low, be soft and possibly bottom out on jumps and whoops. Because you are to heavy for it. If you use the same spring and set rider sag to say 115mm by compressing the spring the ride wll be harsh as the spring will be pre-compressed and not give full travel and a plush ride. It'll still bottom out as well. Hopefully I've got it right I've only been riding enduro bikes 2 years??? Its important to do both ends, or if not, better to do nothing and have a soft bike all round? I think?? your figures are much better than mine so should be not to bad to ride till you can do the lot. I had 145mm rider sag at 35mm static. So I just set the rider sag to about 120mm (should have been about 110mm for my preference) and put up with it for 4 months till I could get front and rear all done at once.

Race tech http://www.racetech.com/evalving/menu/searchdirt.asp
Sorry mate Race tech only go up to 05 for my bike (bit slack) you may have to go to Rob, Pm Danger or your local tuner and suss out what you need??

Edit sorry meant to say click on the red "Custom Fork and Rear Shock Spring Calculation and Available Rates" thingy!