TV1 - Close Up @ 7.00pm - Returning riders causing accidents (20 March)

**zzzbang** · 21st March 2009, 12:55

Originally Posted by Mom

The Ministry of Transport representative on the clip last night clearly stated that 50% of motorcycle accidents are attributed to rider error and 50% to other road users fault.

These statistics again leave out the terrible road conditions and other factors. Statistics are useless unless you take everything into account.. they keep telling us about these stats but its never the complete picture.. we keep getting this worthless blabber. Getting totally fed up with these incompetent fools running the show.

**brightspark** · 21st March 2009, 13:27

As far as the generalisation that this section of the population are notoriously hard to educate, The TV1 researchers only had to spend an hour or so scanning the pages of this very forum to get a flavour of the attitude/mindset of the average kiwi biker.

Whilst there are many useful and thought-provoking threads, there are equally as many which are dismissive of authority, or the valid opinions of others, and many which display exactly what they think other readers want to hear - i.e. a devil - may - care, two fingers up, she'll be right mate attitude which they think will endear them to like minded people (not neccessarily bikers).

In short, its about the 'pack' mentality. People who post here often want to align themselves with the majority. Hence the guy on Close Up who spoke on behalf of bikers in (in my opinion) a thoughtful and intelligent way, has seen a few posts here criticising his comments , and rather than defend himself, has apparently decided to instead, align himself with the 'pack' and distance himself from his own words!

Without any evidence to back my claim whatsoever, I would suggest that the 'one of the gang' mentality which pervades these pages, transfers itself to the open road every weekend. A group of riders tends to get led by the Alpha male who, to maintain the position at the front, has to be the fastest rider, most willing to take risks. The rest either try to keep up, or are out of the 'gang'.

If you ride alone, you are subconsciously practicing for the day when you challenge the Alpha male, (think wildlife docos - lion cubs etc..)so you are still likely to take needless risks, but in the safe situation of a solo ride, where no actual confrontation will take place. - there, I think I phsyco - babbled better than the woman last night. Finally, again, spend an hour browsing through this site and let us know what opinion it gives YOU of the average Kiwi rider? cheers.

**Naki Rat** · 21st March 2009, 13:37

Originally Posted by _Shrek_

this must be a standard print in papers, coz I crashed the week before this guy died on a diesel spill & the paper said they thought it was diesel spilled yet in another part of same paper, sand had to be put on diesel that had been spilled in patchers over a 27km strech of road the same strech I was on "Doh" yet nothing is being done to stop this, just blame the biker he's having a mid life thingie

In addition the morning of Craig Blinkhorne's crash (Paeroa race day) it was showery if not fully wet, possibly after a dry spell. Lack of caution on his part or lack of action on road maintenance's part - you decide.

**Genestho** · 21st March 2009, 13:53

The highlighting of a the B.A.B issue was great, however, how come they attached the story of the death of a rider who was reported as NOT a B.A.B???
It would be sad if there was media manipulation involved ....I mean absolutely no disrespect to Craigs family, May he Rest In Peace, and may peace come to the family..but..

Seemed a mismatch of info there...
That aside, the advocation of taking refresher courses after a gap in riding time seems fairly simple as well as promoting awareness...and self responsibility, it is very hard to imagine little Goff Kaining (sp?) a Commando.

There was a message there, whether or not it's taken on board is up to "us"..at the moment..

Perhaps if the bike stats were broken down and dissected "losing control" what exactly does that cover...etc etc?
Co-alation of data and how it's used, would be interesting to find out...

Nice to put a face to the name Crasher

..

**skidMark** · 21st March 2009, 14:32

Originally Posted by brightspark

**too long to quote whole post**

That was by far the most accurate and well written post to ever grace this site.

**Ocean1** · 21st March 2009, 14:57

Originally Posted by The Guzzi Widow

Perhaps if the bike stats were broken down and dissected "losing control" what exactly does that cover...etc etc?
Co-alation of data and how it's used, would be interesting to find out...

Waste of time, the data is corrupt. You'd have to design your own somewhat less biased system, examine a shitload of accident reports and catagorise each accordingly.

**Katman** · 21st March 2009, 15:14

Originally Posted by brightspark

As far as the generalisation that this section of the population are notoriously hard to educate, The TV1 researchers only had to spend an hour or so scanning the pages of this very forum to get a flavour of the attitude/mindset of the average kiwi biker.

Whilst there are many useful and thought-provoking threads, there are equally as many which are dismissive of authority, or the valid opinions of others, and many which display exactly what they think other readers want to hear - i.e. a devil - may - care, two fingers up, she'll be right mate attitude which they think will endear them to like minded people (not neccessarily bikers).

In short, its about the 'pack' mentality. People who post here often want to align themselves with the majority. Hence the guy on Close Up who spoke on behalf of bikers in (in my opinion) a thoughtful and intelligent way, has seen a few posts here criticising his comments , and rather than defend himself, has apparently decided to instead, align himself with the 'pack' and distance himself from his own words!

Without any evidence to back my claim whatsoever, I would suggest that the 'one of the gang' mentality which pervades these pages, transfers itself to the open road every weekend. A group of riders tends to get led by the Alpha male who, to maintain the position at the front, has to be the fastest rider, most willing to take risks. The rest either try to keep up, or are out of the 'gang'.

If you ride alone, you are subconsciously practicing for the day when you challenge the Alpha male, (think wildlife docos - lion cubs etc..)so you are still likely to take needless risks, but in the safe situation of a solo ride, where no actual confrontation will take place. - there, I think I phsyco - babbled better than the woman last night. Finally, again, spend an hour browsing through this site and let us know what opinion it gives YOU of the average Kiwi rider? cheers.

Great post.

Unfortunately, there are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

(And I'm not talking about car drivers).

**MarkH** · 21st March 2009, 15:15

Originally Posted by cs363

That aside, it doesn't lessen the message to be careful out there, and as Pete said on TV, if you've been off the bike for a long time and are just getting back into it, do a refresher course. Better to feel a bit of a dick going back to school than to end up in hospital or worse.

I did an RRRS course last year (after returning to biking following a 20 year absence) and it was good. Got me thinking more about what I was doing and practising stuff with experienced riders watching how I did it. Better to have a guy tell you that you need to look further through the corner than to find out that you don't look far enough ahead when you have an accident. Now after 7 months of riding I have clocked up more than 16,000 kms of riding and feel more confident, but I still look out for any bad habits I may have and seek to find ways that I can improve.

From the TV program I can agree with the part about the refresher course being a good idea.

But
I disagree about labelling it 'a midlife crisis' - how is that helpful? The fact is that many older guys are getting back into biking, the reason behind it is not really that important.
Riding cruisers too fast - based on what evidence? I still don't know that there are many deaths attributed to pushing a cruiser past its limit.
I wonder about the inclusion of Craig's accident in a piece about B.A.B.s - how exactly is that accident relevant? If it isn't relevant to the news piece that thay are airing then why put it in?

**Katman** · 21st March 2009, 15:25

Originally Posted by MarkH

Riding cruisers too fast - based on what evidence? I still don't know that there are many deaths attributed to pushing a cruiser past its limit.

I have seen a number of Harleys through my shop with the primary chain case ground down from over exuberant cornering. You can only do for so long before the case decides to dump it's oil all over your rear tyre.

**Reckless** · 21st March 2009, 15:56

Did any of you notice that the yellow marks on the road in the article where smack on one of those strips where the chip is punched through and the glossy black icy tarstuff is showing. Reasonable chip either side as well! Remember it was wet!

That was exactly this scenario that put a mate of mine off his bike and skating down the road. Broken collar bone, bike a write off! It was wet and we where cruising along and the bike just went out from under him. He swears he never braked or did anything to upset the bike. It was wet, and we went back to inspect the road, no oil nothing except that patch of black glossy shit! He was on a Ducati, good tyres, brakes etc??

This poor bugger died from what looked like the same scenario? But does anyone blame the bloody shocking state of our roads, no. Its always "ride to the the conditions" that's the out clause they all use. The way I see it at some point the unpredictability of the road condition, because of poor maintenance, construction etc must play a role. Imagine if there had been a fucking cheese cutter there as well!!! Does Transit need to be sued for murder??? No they'll just say he was speeding or Not "riding to the conditions"

Sounds like this guy was a good and experienced rider. Maybe his line drifted a bit from the chip area onto the wet exposed tar?
Did that super slick patch catch him out?
Should it not have been there at all!
Should we all be so good we can detect constantly changing road condition by the meter.
Or should we expect consistent road condition.
This might also be a scenario where Mrs Smith and her family in their SUV says "it just skidded officer"as he calls the Ambo for her kids?

Was the road condition the deciding factor that killed this guy? I'll leave it to you to decide?

Rant over! That's my 2c, agree or disagree I don't give a shit! But our roads are bloody shocking!!!!

**Katman** · 21st March 2009, 15:59

Originally Posted by Reckless

Its always "ride to the the conditions" that's the out clause they all use.

Makes sense, dunnit?

**Reckless** · 21st March 2009, 16:02

Oh shit not you!!

Miss the point, aim at the poster again! Typical!

Can't be bothered with your shit today! CYA

**dipshit** · 21st March 2009, 16:05

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

You know that for a fact?

It's all in here...
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

ALL of the nasty ones I've had have been some blind cunt pulling out in front of me or doing a 'u' turn without looking.

So you base what is going on in this country on your own personal experiences..?? In other words you haven't got a f#ing clue and are just talking shit.

And I'd be surprised if anyone here hasn't had car drivers do stupid shit that's caused them to either bin it..or come fucking close to binning it. So you don't think car drivers should be better educated towards motorcyclists?

It isn't the biggest problem and why so many motorcyclists are killing themselves every weekend.

**Genestho** · 21st March 2009, 16:08

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Waste of time, the data is corrupt. You'd have to design your own somewhat less biased system, examine a shitload of accident reports and catagorise each accordingly.

I wonder if there is any non-govt organisation that collects the same incoming data...?

And just out of interest...could someone please let me know if Bronz has independant data analysts? And if not why not? Or is that off topic?