PT racers or thinking about racing PT

[GSVR]

How many Pheasents could a pheasent plucker pluck if a pheasent plucker could pluck pheasents?????

Try www.dictionary.com if you are having problems with english dude

Pheasants

Too many variables can't figure it out!

[Robert Taylor]

Robert heres a tricky one for you. the question has 2 parts
1) In YOUR opinion would the "commuter" Ohlins shock you refer to be good enough to improve the handling on a SV to raceable condition.
2) How much would that shock cost in TODAYS money
Ditto the front end
Or in other words in TODAYS financial world How much MINIMUM using your gear to get a SV to what you feel is a safe to race condition. -Based on it being a brand new bike with stock suspenders.

1 ) No, but then every shock we send out is individualised to the customer and application, at no extra cost

2) Thats between me and the customer, there are many parasites who frequent forums and we are into quality, not a price war. ( we dont subscribe to redshed mentality and the quality issues such mentality creates )

3) Absolutely do the forks first with suitable springs and emulators, and I mean brass emulators that dont flog out and with proper rate pop off springs and low speed bypass.
Rear shock that is longer so it changes the trail figure so the bike will steer half properly and place more weight onto the front. Properly arranged fade free damping that actually delivers dynamic ride height / squat control.

But hey this is all ground that has been covered before for Pro Twins and its a done deal. The world financial crisis should not in itself be justification to lower the ( effective ) safety standards of race classes

[Robert Taylor]

How many Pheasents could a pheasent plucker pluck if a pheasent plucker could pluck pheasents?????

I knew what you meant............eight peasant pheasant pluckers pleasantly plucking pheasants.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

.........

[FROSTY:Me]

GOSH DARN IT Robert Stop talking in riddles.
It isn't about Red shed mentality its about ok a safe suspension package could be built for X$
Realisticly from what I can tell a reasonable Penske ,WP or Ohlins should be about the same cost to a customer.

[GSVR]

GOSH DARN IT Robert Stop talking in riddles.
It isn't about Red shed mentality its about ok a safe suspension package could be built for X$
Realisticly from what I can tell a reasonable Penske ,WP or Ohlins should be about the same cost to a customer.

In all fairest to Robert Frosty I think it was you who posted on here that the Standard SV650 suspension was unsafe ! But I noted that no club has banned anyone that turns up and races a standard bike yet!

As far as the cost of getting a championship winning bike goes Sam has made no secret about what work he does and money he has spent and neither would Geoff Booth.

Next year the TTX36 will probably be dominant like it is now but I don't think the serious guys will still be using the racetech emulators as better stuff is in the pipework.

[svr]

In all fairest to Robert Frosty I think it was you who posted on here that the Standard SV650 suspension was unsafe ! But I noted that no club has banned anyone that turns up and races a standard bike yet!

Now that suspension, brakes, chassis etc are better racers crash as much as ever. Actually the crashes are worse than ever due to higher corner speeds.
600 production bikes of 20 yrs ago didn't crash as badly or as often as modern 600ss, (as far as I can remember...)
Not saying old rubbish is preferable, just trying to demonstrate a logical point that justifying expensive modifications on the grounds of `safety' is a weak position.

[codgyoleracer]

Part Quote from SVR: "Not saying old rubbish is preferable, just trying to demonstrate a logical point that justifying expensive modifications on the grounds of `safety' is a weak position"


I tend to agree

[Robert Taylor]

In all fairest to Robert Frosty I think it was you who posted on here that the Standard SV650 suspension was unsafe ! But I noted that no club has banned anyone that turns up and races a standard bike yet!

As far as the cost of getting a championship winning bike goes Sam has made no secret about what work he does and money he has spent and neither would Geoff Booth.

Next year the TTX36 will probably be dominant like it is now but I don't think the serious guys will still be using the racetech emulators as better stuff is in the pipework.

The rules are very clear that emulators are allowed and nothing such as cartridges are allowed. Unless you have an inside running with MNZ to change the rules your statement has no basis in fact. If you are referring to the cheap copies I can cite very serious shortcomings, we have analysed these with a very open mind and the action and longevity is less than impressive. We had a guy on the Race Tech course last year who having the cheek of the devil told Paul Thede directly he had bought a set and wasnt happy with how they worked, and how do I get them to work? Paul answered with the contempt it deserved. If there are other products in the pipework they will have to be okayed by MNZ first.

A word about Sam, we sold him a TTX36 we traded and re-spec'd to suit SV650, the end price was well under standard new price. Furthermore we traded his ''standard'' Ohlins shock . Thats ''rampant capitalism'' actually helping people! On that front better stuff is always in the pipeline.

[Robert Taylor]

Part Quote from SVR: "Not saying old rubbish is preferable, just trying to demonstrate a logical point that justifying expensive modifications on the grounds of `safety' is a weak position"


I tend to agree

Ok, lets say somehow the stock shock was able to be modied to work as well as your TTX in terms of laptimes. It would undoubtedly fade within a handful of laps and turn to jelly, greatly increasing the chance of crashing. Its also about stability of performance. I will answer SVRs take on this subject tonight because apples arent being always compared with apples and people have to move with the times.

[Shaun]

Ok, lets say somehow the stock shock was able to be modied to work as well as your TTX in terms of laptimes. It would undoubtedly fade within a handful of laps and turn to jelly, greatly increasing the chance of crashing. Its also about stability of performance. I will answer SVRs take on this subject tonight because apples arent being always compared with apples and people have to move with the times.

Are we all going to have to book 8 hours to read your reply Rob

[svr]

Are we all going to have to book 8 hours to read your reply Rob

Although generally over the word limit, I'm generally impressed with the sheer quality of RT's homework, particularly how he manages to elevate `mere' suspension discussions to new discursive levels, partly by bringing multidisciplinary evidence from hitherto unrelated fields including (but not limited to) Political Economy, Philosophy and Anthropology. Taken as a whole RT's Kiwi Biker `Magnum Opus' to date parrallels that of several formidable 17-19thC theologans who doggedly defended the (irrational) belief in God by producing the most beautiful and extensive tomes of Reason yet written!
Given that RT perhaps has a similar scale battle with this matter I look forward to reading another chapter of intellectual gymnastics tomorrow!

[Robert Taylor]

Are we all going to have to book 8 hours to read your reply Rob

No, slightly shorter than ''War and Peace'' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cowpoos]

No, slightly shorter than ''War and Peace'' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you listen to Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB ???

[Robert Taylor]

GOSH DARN IT Robert Stop talking in riddles.
It isn't about Red shed mentality its about ok a safe suspension package could be built for X$
Realisticly from what I can tell a reasonable Penske ,WP or Ohlins should be about the same cost to a customer.

Frosty, no intention to talk in riddles as such. We do come across ''redshed mentality'' on a frequent basis, ''The Warehouse has created many negatives and one perception is that quality and performance can be purchased at very low prices. That would be wonderful but for the most part it is simply not true.
In answer to the ( in fact ) small number of site ''bleaters'' ( sorry couldnt think of a less abrasive word ) its fair to clarify that the SV650 and ER6 etc are a whole lot less stable than they should be because they pitch forward violently in the front end under hard braking. On race tracks that is generally known to happen a few times every lap. The front end is always the first thing that should be modified on such bikes. If you do nothing else do the front end!!!
When I enquired to Ohlins sometime ago if they had a spec for the SV650 shocks for racing Anders Andersson replied to me ''they are commuter bikes'' Painfully true. As I have mentioned in other threads / posts the shock needs to be longer to afford more ground clearance, swingarm anti squat angle and to head towards a slightly better trail figure in front etc. If you want to go faster and with a lot more composure you have to fit a better shock. Irrefutable fact. To that end I must thank Glen Williams ( yes I know GSVR that he races in F3 ) for initially pushing the envelope further by requesting that we custom build a TTX36. Glen you are a dirty filthy capitalist!!!!!! But then by implication so are around another 8 or more riders that have requested ''Glen Williams'' replicas.
I imagine that Ohlins / WP / Penske are all similiar in price given comparing apples for apples specification levels. If anything though the US sourced shocks ( Penske ) have risen in price moreso as our dollar has weakened more so against $US than the European currencies. A case in point is that Race Tech are now making shocks, these are low volume production compared to the biggest player ( Ohlins ) so unit component prices and assembly costs are quite high. The shock they build for SV650 at a spec level to compete with TTX36 is around US$1699. Factor in exchange rate freight and gst and you have a shock thats around $4000 !!!!! There are similiar percentage disparities at lower spec levels.
In the end event it is as much about backup, something that seriously has to be accounted for.
I am usually quite guarded because ( for want of a better term ) there are a lot of industry parasites out there...''I can do it cheaper'' the real negative of the free market is that its just too easy for any Joe Bloggs to source product overseas and become an importer. The reality almost always is that they become a jack of all trades and master of none. Low capital base, no proper infrastructure and training, little or no product knowledge. NO BACKUP AND EXCELLENT SERVICE BORNE OF FULL PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE. I apologise to everyone that is doing it properly and those that have the proper investment and full commitment to do so and for the long haul.