Thoughts on ABS?

[pritch]

When ABS first came out the local Police were quite agitated. Their concern was that there would be no skidmarks to measure following an accident??? That an accident may not have actually eventuated due to the ABS was a possibility that hadn't occurred to them at that point.

A demonstration was organised by the local BMW dealer. The rider, then of Callender Motorcycles - now of Experience BMW, told me that he had to brake very, very hard to get the ABS to function from speed. Far harder than most riders would ever brake. Hard enough in fact to receive favourable comments from very impressed members of the Police.

In an emergency situation most riders don't brake anywhere near as hard as is actually possible. ABS let's anyone brake as hard as they can pull the lever.

ABS saves lives.

I have experienced ABS operation in a heavy vehicle but not on a bike. Unfortunately the ABS equipped VFR is one of the many models in the Honda range that Bluewing don't import into this country.

[FROSTY:Me]

For me the jurys out. Ive owned bikes with abs and with linked brakes.
On the bike with linked brakes I liked just using the back brake to slow down. It really suited the style of bike.
On the bikes with ABS I don't recall ever actually ever experiencing the ABS doing its thing.
In theory ABS is a fantastic concept for road use where surfaces are less than predictable.
MY negative on it is that Ive dealt with enough ABS issues in cages to know it aint a cheap fix.

[Ixion]

ABS

..



BMW is a disaster. There have been reports of a number of crashes as a result of the ABS on the BMW F800. When braking for a stop and not even braking hard, on a dry road, in a straightline.... so no chance of having an issue. If you hit a bump or dip the size of a catseye once in a while you lose ALL brakes, both front and rear, and this stays gone for up to two car lengths.

Guys have ditched there bikes, found ways to disable the ABS and still today BMW has a policy of deny, deny, deny on a bike that can kill a rider.

I consider it will only be a matter of time before this BMW ABS on the F800 kills a rider. The fact that there are already reported crashes and numerous near misses is of serious concern.

All reports I've heard on the Honda have been good. I don't know which system the Triumph use but BMW uses a Bosch system and I can't recall the model but can find it if you want to know.




ABS kicks in when you jam on the anchors hard and you get the pulsed feel as the brakes are applied and released. In the 2 1/4 years I've had ABS it has never activated except in two circumstances;

1/ when I want to demonstrate how it works.

2/ To fail. I've had 8 failures. Of these one was a near miss where I shot into a round-a-bout because all the brakes had been released and shot behind a Jeep Cherokee. Seconds earlier I'd have been talking to it's grill.

BMW have designed a new system for the F800R with an adjustment for dealing with bumps but have chosen to make no fix available to the F800 S and ST.

Personally now with my experience I'd be very wary of ABS and either wait till it gets better, or do a thorough search for a particular model or look for a bike where it can be switched. I would never ever, ever, ever buy a BMW with ABS.


Hope this helps.

Absolutely no issues at all on a BMW K series. Very seldom had it activate but when it did it was good. No failures at all . If you let the battery go flat the ABS will disable itself , brakes work completely normally, just no ABS. You just have to reset it with a paperclip. I can turn it off in gravel.

I'd trust it completely.

[Renegade]

ABS

On Gravel

The reason ABS is an issue on gravel is that the system is checking the rotation speed of the front and rear wheels. On gravel the wheels can stop rotating faster and this wrecks havoc with the ABS algorithms and folks report having no brakes for long periods going down hill or when trying to stop. The ABS thinks the bike is sliding or has lost traction and releases brakes to regain traction. Dual purpose bikes with ABS sometimes have an ABS on/off switch to deal to this problem. That is ABS will never work so switch it off when off road or on gravel.

ABS on a surface that does not have a consistent co-efficient of friction is always going to be a problem. So that means sand would still be a problem.

ABS In General

ABS on bikes has generally been getting better with systems up till recently reporting some serious faults. Google is your friend for specific bike makes but Honda sounds pretty good.

BMW is a disaster. There have been reports of a number of crashes as a result of the ABS on the BMW F800. When braking for a stop and not even braking hard, on a dry road, in a straightline.... so no chance of having an issue. If you hit a bump or dip the size of a catseye once in a while you lose ALL brakes, both front and rear, and this stays gone for up to two car lengths.

Guys have ditched there bikes, found ways to disable the ABS and still today BMW has a policy of deny, deny, deny on a bike that can kill a rider.

I consider it will only be a matter of time before this BMW ABS on the F800 kills a rider. The fact that there are already reported crashes and numerous near misses is of serious concern.

All reports I've heard on the Honda have been good. I don't know which system the Triumph use but BMW uses a Bosch system and I can't recall the model but can find it if you want to know.




ABS kicks in when you jam on the anchors hard and you get the pulsed feel as the brakes are applied and released. In the 2 1/4 years I've had ABS it has never activated except in two circumstances;

1/ when I want to demonstrate how it works.

2/ To fail. I've had 8 failures. Of these one was a near miss where I shot into a round-a-bout because all the brakes had been released and shot behind a Jeep Cherokee. Seconds earlier I'd have been talking to it's grill.

BMW have designed a new system for the F800R with an adjustment for dealing with bumps but have chosen to make no fix available to the F800 S and ST.

Personally now with my experience I'd be very wary of ABS and either wait till it gets better, or do a thorough search for a particular model or look for a bike where it can be switched. I would never ever, ever, ever buy a BMW with ABS.


Hope this helps.

good post, clearly BMW have had a few issues but would it be a fair call to say they would be one of the first to fit bikes with ABS?? if so teething probs should be accepted but id expect it to be sorted by now,

any suzuki bandit owners out there with ABS stories?

[Weta]

There's an interesting article in the March Rapid where Andrew Pitt tests 09 CBR1000rr with ABS, as a racer he was very sceptical but by test end thought they were fantastic. Initial test was from tarmac into a gravel area at 100ks, grab the brake hard and see what happens. He couldn't lock it up, said there was a faint 'pulse' or on off feel but negligible. Sounds like theyre improving all the time.

[yachtie10]

Ive got the 1250 ABS bandit
Only done 2300 k so far but all good no issues
Have panic braked and hauled up fast no issues, to be honest havnt noticed any difference from my old bandit
I have done lots of checking on Bandit forums and havnt seen any issues with ABS

Cheap upgrade worth having IMHO

[munterk6]

ABS?? I would love abs...but unfortunately the passage of time and an unhealthy diet with no exercise at all ever, has made certain I have a keg.

seriously tho, isn't ABS brakes for people that have no idea how to use brakes effectively with feel and skill?

[BMWST?]

ABS?? I would love abs...but unfortunately the passage of time and an unhealthy diet with no exercise at all ever, has made certain I have a keg.

seriously tho, isn't ABS brakes for people that have no idea how to use brakes effectively with feel and skill?

you could argue that but in a real panic situation in unfavourable conditions it could be the difference between an accident or not.In a real panic situation you will lock up the rear,maybe even the front if the surface is slippery.

[Ixion]

seriously tho, isn't ABS brakes for people that have no idea how to use brakes effectively with feel and skill?

Yes. I've only been riding for half a century. I don't know how to use brakes effectively with skill and feel to do a 10 10ths emergency stop , unexpectedly, on a oily wet road, in the pouring rain, at night, well adorned with white paint, and a metal man hole cover, when boi-racer has raced up in the lane beside me, lost it on the curve and now is spinning round in front of me, having already clipped two cars who are also losing it . Oh, and the only escape route, IF I can identify it quickly enough will take me across the gravel verge.

But I'm sure you would be able to pull a full force emergency stop, without risking locking the wheel, and still have headspace to identify that little corridor round the wrecked cars onto the gravel. And ease off at exactly the right moment when you hit the gravel. Us lesser mortals need all the help we can get.

OH, and BTW, that's the real world.

[Slyer]

I've always wanted abs but could never get rid of the spare tire....as for abs braking, could come in handy in the wet, I wouldnt rely on it though in case it failed. Still gotta know how to brake properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_acronym_syndrome

[Renegade]

seriously tho, isn't ABS brakes for people that have no idea how to use brakes effectively with feel and skill?

nope, it was designed to enable you to brake and steer a car at the same time without lockup, cos if it locks you cant steer, try it in ya car

[Sully60]

nope, it was designed to enable you to brake and steer a car at the same time without lockup, cos if it locks you cant steer, try it in ya car

It was actually designed to stop heavy supersonic bombers on landing. Everything good comes from warplanes!

[Renegade]

It was actually designed to stop heavy supersonic bombers on landing. Everything good comes from warplanes!

thats cool

[dipshit]

Yes. I've only been riding for half a century. I don't know how to use brakes effectively with skill and feel to do a 10 10ths emergency stop...

But you haven't got a photo of yourself doing a track day! How could you possibly be as skilled and as amazingly talented..???

[dipshit]

seriously tho, isn't ABS brakes for people that have no idea how to use brakes effectively with feel and skill?

You mean like all the 'legions in their own lunchtimes' types around here that have a photo of themselves doing a track day and say things like... "all the braking is done with the front, i never touch the back brake"

The reality is they aren't as shit hot as they think they are.

A good linked ABS like Honda's new system will significantly improve their braking abilitys.