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Thread: Got breath tested last night

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by discotex View Post
    How does that work?
    Well, one example might be a rear seat passenger opening a door while the vehicle was moving (perhaps to vex a lanesplitting motorcyclist). Passengers in cars have duties and responsibilities as well, both under the various Transport Acts and under common law.

    Here is an interesting thought however. Suppose a vehicle is stopped. The driver has a L licence. In the passenger seat is a fully licensed person. He, however, disclaims any responsibility and says "No, I am not a supervisor, I am just along for the ride. What the driver does is nothing to do with me". Where does that leave either the driver or the supervisor (The Driver Licensing Rule 1999 says " The holder must not drive the vehicle (unless driving a motorcycle, moped, or an all-terrain vehicle) unless the holder is accompanied in the vehicle by a person who—

    (i) Holds, and has held for at least 2 years, a full licence of a class that authorises that person to drive that vehicle; and
    (ii) Is in charge of the vehicle; and"

    ). If the supervisor may disclaim his charge, then that gets him off the hook of a DIC charge. At the expense of the L driver. Who could howver, say "News to me. I checked he had a full, told him I was an L. He never said he wasn't in charge until the cop asked hikm. How am I supposed to know?"

    But the "in charge" bit is problematic. If taken logically this would mean that, for instance, the supervisor would be responsible for any speeding ticket incurred by the driver. Note also, the Rule says "is in charge", not "accepts charge of ". On such minutiae lawyers grow fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    No frikkin need for C.L.O.

    There's been a case already where 'supervisor' of driver was done for over the eba limit 'cos they were 'in charge'.

    Sorry, can't remember when/who etc.


    Can't say I am surprised. Common sense dictates that you can not have a 'suprvisor' in charge of a vehicle any more than you can have the driver over the limit.

    But Ixion raises an interesting point in that the 'passanger' refuses to accept responsibility. Or more to the the point 'all' passagers that have a full licence refuse to accept responsibility.

    It's threads such as these that make KB so interesting


    Skyryder
    Free Scott Watson.

  3. #33
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    But how am I in charge of what the driver does? I can't stop him from driving the way he wants to.

  4. #34
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    I was breathtested a month ago an hour after a beer. The device showed no alcohol. So I thought: "huh? then what the hell was I drinking???"
    "People are stupid ... almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true ... they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so all are easier to fool." -- Wizard's First Rule

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMOKEU View Post
    But how am I in charge of what the driver does? I can't stop him from driving the way he wants to.
    The point of being a supervisor is to be responsible for the learner license driver.

    If you don't like their driving get out and let them get fined for breaches etc.

    If their driving is that bad, do you really need the answer,
    GET THEM OFF THE FREAKING ROAD,
    there are enough idiots out there now and if you think you cannot influence your peers from doin stupid stuff then maybe you need to re-evaluate your friendships or even let the heaven forbid authorities know,
    you may save somebodies life in the future....it could be yours

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indoo View Post
    I'd be interested in that case, part of the ingredients of the offence are drove or attempted to drive a vehicle on a road etc, there is no way a supervisor could be charged it would be so utterly ridiculous and against the principle of our incredibly lax drink driving law's.
    Check out a prec code book... plenty of "aiding" and "abetting" the driver to do plenty of shit...

    Aiding/abetting...
    - a learner/unlicenced driver to drive
    - dangerous/careless driving
    - incapable driver etc

    just to name a few....

    Doesn't surprise at all that there will be something for the overseer, but it is rarely used......

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyryder View Post
    But Ixion raises an interesting point in that the 'passanger' refuses to accept responsibility. Or more to the the point 'all' passagers that have a full licence refuse to accept responsibility.


    Skyryder
    It is this situation where the officer can enforce a driving ban on all occupants of the car, and of course fine the driver for any breaches etc.

    But I guess you will always get some who will never step up to the plate and be responsible.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdnzz View Post
    But I guess you will always get some who will never step up to the plate and be responsible.
    True. It's always someone elses fault.....

  9. #39
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    Here's an even more interesting conundrum.

    If it be accepted that a drunken supervisor is liable to be done for DIC , even though he's not actually behind the wheel (on the basis of being "in charge"), what then if the DRIVER is sober but the SUPERVISOR is pissed?

    Obviously , only one person can be "in charge". If that's the guy behind the wheel, then it's hard to see how the supervisor can be pinged. If the supervisor is the one "in charge" then in logic it shouldn't matter how drunk the guy behind the wheel is.

    And what is the supervisor were sober, but asleep ? Or has a valid licence but is incapacitated - not by drink but by being injured or some such . Can the supervisor be in a wheel chair?

    They never thought of these things. Our laws are so ineptly drafted.

    The law is also vague about what happens if the supervisor has an overseas licence. You are allowed to DRIVE for a year on an overseas licence. Are you allowed also to supervise a learner?

    What if the supervisors licence is supended (on the 28 day thing). Not disqualified. A disqualified driver does not "hold .. a full licence..". But a suspended driver still 'holds' his licence. He's not allowed to drive , but is he allowed to supervise? The law would appear to allow it.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Here's an even more interesting conundrum.

    ....

    What if the supervisors licence is supended (on the 28 day thing). Not disqualified. A disqualified driver does not "hold .. a full licence..". But a suspended driver still 'holds' his licence. He's not allowed to drive , but is he allowed to supervise? The law would appear to allow it.
    I think you will find that there is no difference in the two. 'You' must produce your licence when requested. Even if you still have the bit of plastic, it will be flagged in the system and therefore surely is invalid for the purposes of use in a vehicle matter.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  11. #41
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    Not entirely. Suspension is different to disqualification (or not having a licence).

    A disqualified driver is "disqualified from holding or obtaining" a licence. He doesn't have a licence any more. But a suspended licence is just vthat - merely suspended. The driver still has his licence. He can't use it 9without getting into trouble) because the Land Transport Act 1998 says

    A person commits an offence if the person drives a motor vehicle on a road—
    • (a) While disqualified from holding or obtaining a driver licence; or


    • (b) Contrary to a limited licence; or


    • (c) While his or her driver licence is suspended or revoked.

    Note it say "drive" . The supervisor isn't driving. H emay be "in charge" But the Act doesn't mention being in charge . Just driving.

    And the Driver Licencing Rule only says that the supervisor must hold a licence.

    Note that the DLR *does* say "a full licence of a class that authorises that person to drive that vehicle; and"

    So the question is , if a person holds a suspended Class 1 F licence (has done for two years blah blah), is that suspended licence of a class which authorises the person blah blah . "Of a class" is the critical bit. A good argument could be made that the phrase is intended to ensure that a class1 learner is supervised by someone holding a class 1 licence (not just a class 6 f'instance). Or that a class 5 learner is likewise supervised by a class 5 holder. In which case the suspended licence would still be applicable .

    On such minutiae lawyers grow fat. But it's an interesting point. The law drafters should make these things more clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    ......The law is also vague about what happens if the supervisor has an overseas licence. You are allowed to DRIVE for a year on an overseas licence. Are you allowed also to supervise a learner?

    Yes

    What if the supervisors licence is supended (on the 28 day thing). Not disqualified. A disqualified driver does not "hold .. a full licence..". But a suspended driver still 'holds' his licence. He's not allowed to drive , but is he allowed to supervise? The law would appear to allow it.
    A suspended driver does not hold a current licence, coz its suspended. He is not a supervisor for a learner/restricted.

  13. #43
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    About a million years ago when my wife was my girlfriend and had a learners she drove me home from the pub. I was so pissed I was snoring in the passenger seat and she got pulled up. GF shows license to cop, cop says does he have a full pointing at the alcohol fueled mess propped up next to her. She nodded, cop said OK have a nice night and let her go.

    Good cop eh?
    Exert your talents, and distinguish yourself, and don't think of retiring from the world, until the world will be sorry that you retire. -Samuel Johnson


  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post

    Note that the DLR *does* say "[SIZE=2][I]a full licence of a class that authorises that person to drive that vehicle; and"
    There's the clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    A suspended driver does not hold a current licence, coz its suspended. He is not a supervisor for a learner/restricted.
    Thanks
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insanity_rules View Post
    About a million years ago when my wife was my girlfriend and had a learners she drove me home from the pub. I was so pissed I was snoring in the passenger seat and she got pulled up. GF shows license to cop, cop says does he have a full pointing at the alcohol fueled mess propped up next to her. She nodded, cop said OK have a nice night and let her go.

    Good cop eh?
    Lazy, more like it... You both got lucky.

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