New 600 rules...

[Robert Taylor]

I was quite surprised when I saw that allowing standard suspension was being considered in the Supersport class. Apart from getting the predictable responses from some partys I think there will be alot of support for this from riders.

There are a few questions like how can we be sure people aren't modifying shocks. And the revalving issue put forward. One idea thatI think would work would be to let guys get their standard shocks set up (springs and valving) before the first round and at the first round have the shocks or mounting bolt marked/sealed with (for example) a microdot identification expoxy.
This way guys could have their bike set up pretty well by an expert but would then not be able to make any major changes apart from clicker and preload adjustments.

The other issue you have mentioned is tyres. An ideal would be for a manufacturer to get behind this or MNZ to negotiate a deal to supply all the racers with the same control tyres. The supplier would know pretty well how many tyres they need to stock and all the riders should be able to get a good price this way. People with backing might not like this.

One more issue is how many people will still be running for the premier 600 title? If it reduces the contenters to a few factory riders things would not be good.

Lastly is the issue of the speed differential between the top guys and the slower privateers class riders. This is an issue already but would become more of an issue if fields increased. The blue flag is good but sometimes the timing can just be unfortunate for a lapped rider. eg the Smith Sheriffs backmarker incident an couple of seasons ago.
Not sure what the answer is here but it can ruin a top guys chances at the championship. One DNF with so few races can be a killer.

I'm well aware that there people that hate the idea of "dumbing down" the class. I see it more as taking some of the technical and financial aspects out (which many very good riders get handicapped by) and putting more focus on the riders riding ability rather than how many people around him setting up the bike and then taking some credit for how well the bike and rider performed.

Great to have you on here Mr Fenton. Knowing your opinions and vision for the sport is a great benefit to everyone involved.




Hey Sloan are you running a 600 as well? I know where your at as far as the Superbikes go but thought you would be going for the overall honors anyway.

So how well is a shock that is valved to ride the bumps at Pukekohe going to perform at tire shredding Teretonga? Dont say you can just adjust to compensate with the clickers because the response range is not the magic cure all that many mistakenly think it is. This ruling proposal confirms beyond all doubt how little those that draft ( or rather request ) such proposals actually know and will only draw support from the least experienced or those that havent had the benefit of same. This has the CEOs smell all over it.
Your continuing tone of condescension does you no credit, little wonder you have been taken to task by several.

[Maido]

Most motorcycle governing bodies around the world have come to realise that "stock" suspenders are not up to the specification required to compete, sure they are superior to "old" suspension systems but they aren't up to it. Perhaps for the average joe they are functional but if you are in the top 15% of riders then stock doesn't cut it and can be down right dangerous.
Our major road racing cousins (who we should align with, might I add) Australia, Japan and America (couldn't find BSB), have realised this and all allow (at the very least) valving and springs to be open (providing externaly they look the same). Also, policing who is running stock shim stacks would be the worst job in the world!
Sure us Kiwi's are renouned for taking a different approach, but in this case I believe alignment is the sensible approach as we know their series are consistant and well attended.

This reminds me, Red, what are your thoughts on aligning rule books with Aus, and trying to get Australasian regs in place. This would make trying to race over the ditch for both parties much easier. Especially for someone like yourself with Robbie?

[Maido]

Well looking at the CEO's credentials and the years of sucessful roadracing he has done I would think he has alot more experience than most including yourself about the riders perspective on this.

So how well is a shock that is valved to ride the bumps at Pukekohe going to perform at tire shredding Teretonga? I will have to ask one of the riders who didn't get their shock revalved between these two tracks. Do you know anyone who didn't?

This is an arguement I want no part it, but I have raced on a stock shock at Teretonga (my home circuit), to put it simply my tire was shagged within about 10 laps.
I think we are also getting off topic again, this is just a continuation from another thread. Maybe someone could add something new?

[Robert Taylor]

Well looking at the CEO's credentials and the years of sucessful roadracing he has done I would think he has alot more experience than most including yourself about the riders perspective on this.

So how well is a shock that is valved to ride the bumps at Pukekohe going to perform at tire shredding Teretonga? I will have to ask one of the riders who didn't get their shock revalved between these two tracks. Do you know anyone who didn't?

I seriously beg to differ, over many many years I have worked with many riders at the top level and have also worked with the said CEO in a simpler time when less was understood about suspension. With all respect to the said person he clearly understands a lot less about suspension and tyre interaction than the top riders I have been working with. The sad thing is I think there is almost a refusal to understand.

[Triple R]

Hi GSVR,

Seriously, the 2 tracks are so different, that yes, you do need to have different settings if you want your tyres to last.

The only way to not shred the tyre at Teretonga, with a Pukekohe setting, is to ride slower. The G forces created on the suspension (and tyres) at Turn 1 Teretonga are well different than any turn at Pukie.

There is no way Robbie could run the times we did with the exact same setting at all the tracks. It would become dangerous if he tried, especially with blistering tyres etc.

Hope this helps answer your question.
Cheers mate.
Red.

[Triple R]

Hi Maido,

To be honest, I would love us to have a closer tie in with Aussie and their rules.
I kknow for a fact that I could get quite a few Aussie riders over to race here, if they were able to bring there bikes, minus the data logging possibly.
And, I know I could get something set up to take bikes etc over there too.

Cheers,
Red.

[CHOPPA]

bye bye then

Nice way to get rid of 50% of the privateers, maybe you should be our promoter...?

Why would you do that mate?

What Shaun P says...

Cause it wouldnt run without them

[Shaun P]

Most motorcycle governing bodies around the world have come to realise that "stock" suspenders are not up to the specification required to compete, sure they are superior to "old" suspension systems but they aren't up to it. Perhaps for the average joe they are functional but if you are in the top 15% of riders then stock doesn't cut it and can be down right dangerous.
Our major road racing cousins (who we should align with, might I add) Australia, Japan and America (couldn't find BSB), have realised this and all allow (at the very least) valving and springs to be open (providing externaly they look the same). Also, policing who is running stock shim stacks would be the worst job in the world!
Sure us Kiwi's are renouned for taking a different approach, but in this case I believe alignment is the sensible approach as we know their series are consistant and well attended.

This reminds me, Red, what are your thoughts on aligning rule books with Aus, and trying to get Australasian regs in place. This would make trying to race over the ditch for both parties much easier. Especially for someone like yourself with Robbie?

You really think thats an option with aus superbike having full data logging and free ecu's with traction control now??

[Robert Taylor]

Once again like you so often do you ignore a question and only answer what suits you.



Did everyone racing this year have to revalve their shocks between teretonga and puke?

Thanks for you input Maido but did you do any tests or try other compounds, pressures, springing etc to try and get the standard shock to work?

More to the point, how many times have you attended and raced at Teretonga????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????

Also take it from me, Maido knows his stuff re set up and is a highly skilled qualified motorcycle engineer. You may not know him given the relative anonymity of forums but its effectively ludicrous you asking him such questions.

[Robert Taylor]

Nice way to get rid of 50% of the privateers, maybe you should be our promoter...?



What Shaun P says...

Sloan, I really think Shaun said that in jest, nothing more.

[Robert Taylor]

More to the point, how many times have you attended and raced at Teretonga????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????

Also take it from me, Maido knows his stuff re set up and is a highly skilled qualified motorcycle engineer. You may not know him given the relative anonymity of forums but its effectively ludicrous you asking him such questions.

And oh, he also had the motivation to attend a recent suspension set up school with one of the worlds top suspension engineers.
When you talk, its best to use the correct orifice to do so.

[CHOPPA]

Factory riders - Standard bikes....

Privateers - No restrictions....

[Shaun P]

Once again like you so often do you ignore a question and only answer what suits you.



Did everyone racing this year have to revalve their shocks between teretonga and puke?

Thanks for you input Maido but did you do any tests or try other compounds, pressures, springing etc to try and get the standard shock to work?

Try going back to school you might learn something there haha

[Maarty]

You really think thats an option with aus superbike having full data logging and free ecu's with traction control now??

It seems that there is huge misconception about data logging and the cost of it. There are some really effective systems on the market for a few haundred dollars right up to the 2D and Motec systems, even on supersport machines, whats the problem? it the big scheme of thing they are only a useful tool as against a "rich boys toy", I am sure that if Robert was allowed to use data logging on Sams or Jays or Nicks bikes then the information would flow on and eventually benefit everyone with better tyre wear and longevity. Surely this would also help the cost format and just as crucially, the safety aspect!
On our 125 we run full data logging, GPS, RPM, Detination, Wheel cadence, TPS, G-Force( acceleration and braking) lean angle and even lap timing.
As far as traction control goes, turn it off!
No one is forced to use data logging if it were available but why punish those who want to! it is really just a case of green-eyed-monstor syndrome? Maybe!

Red, all your ideas have merit and I applaude you for presenting them, the aussie full idea is a very sound one and has beendebated for many years, perhaps it is time to take another look at it. I magine how good the spectical would be if we had another 4 Robbies or Garaths here! Have a few in the 600's as well, wonderful. Now that would get the punters watching the TV wouldn't it! while we are at it, get a few of the 125 boys again!

[Shaun P]

It seems that there is huge misconception about data logging and the cost of it. There are some really effective systems on the market for a few haundred dollars right up to the 2D and Motec systems, even on supersport machines, whats the problem? it the big scheme of thing they are only a useful tool as against a "rich boys toy", I am sure that if Robert was allowed to use data logging on Sams or Jays or Nicks bikes then the information would flow on and eventually benefit everyone with better tyre wear and longevity. Surely this would also help the cost format and just as crucially, the safety aspect!
On our 125 we run full data logging, GPS, RPM, Detination, Wheel cadence, TPS, G-Force( acceleration and braking) lean angle and even lap timing.
As far as traction control goes, turn it off!
No one is forced to use data logging if it were available but why punish those who want to! it is really just a case of green-eyed-monstor syndrome? Maybe!

Red, all your ideas have merit and I applaude you for presenting them, the aussie full idea is a very sound one and has beendebated for many years, perhaps it is time to take another look at it. I magine how good the spectical would be if we had another 4 Robbies or Garaths here! Have a few in the 600's as well, wonderful. Now that would get the punters watching the TV wouldn't it! while we are at it, get a few of the 125 boys again!

Even so whats the season cost difference/advantage in a large amount of testing with traction control on motec type ecus on different tracks vs non traction control/ limited testing etc
I would personally like to see lots of technology but it comes down to cost which most seem to be stuggling with at the moment especially with the pacific peso.

Yep more promotion and trans-tasman riders(both ways) is the way to go