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Thread: Harley Davidson

  1. #136
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    23rd November 2003 - 21:16
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    Harley also makes mobile homes, they serve all, from the newly wed to the nearly dead. Actually I think its mobile homes (marketed under another name but having simular performance specs) division helped it keep alive during the 80's. They also do specialist farbricating for trucks.

    Harley davidson is not a good manufacturer or developer of motorcycles, as a company their core compantancy is there marketing which is largely based on there historical image association with gangs (and wannabe rebels) and being US made.

    When applying strategic theory to what the company was going to do to compete in the international market, Harley first realised that at the time they couldnt sell overseas in any sort of volume. Harley recognised they couldnt beat other manufacturers in quality, performance, handling or price (although they were at a considerable advantage tax and tarrif wise to the other makers). They had to sell using the one thing they could offer, that they were USA all the way. (yeah right). They revamped there production processes to install some build quality, (some of there machineing tools were still of the mass overhead belt driven type-running off a single generator in the factory).
    Engine tolerances were improved and to help with reliability harley engines were produced understressed. (ie their 1340cc engine put out a little over 60 hp). Japanese components had to be used as Harley was unable to produce these of such a quality to meet the new standard of its own quality control and cost effectiveness. They have also set a policy of underproducing to increase demand and thus percieved value. Sure their resale is more, its because theres a few thousand suckers waiting on the factory to spit them out and that the average harley does relatively low unstressed miles and isnt exposed to the rain much, if at all.

    Harley also found that there were alot of older white collars getting back into motorcycles after there kids had left home. These guys did to Harley what they had done to Corvette years earlier, they brought machines based on earlier admiration at a time they didnt have to option to buy one. (The Nissan 300 car failed in the US not because it wasnt as good as the corvette but because guys that brought it had always wanted to have one since they were young).
    Harley as a company have never worked hard, there r and d puts more into show than go, they are able to sit back and make backwards bikes and people pay more for them. Like truimph they didnt deserve to survive the early 80's, its only been luck, the Hells Angels and the same mindset that thinks the US should invade everyone and is right in everything that it does that has saved it.

    If I was to offer you a car that was the size of a falcon with a 6L v8 engine that produced the same power as a toyota corolla 1.6 and build quality of the same yet cost twice as much, how many harley fans out there would buy it? Or a computer that for $5000 performed like a Amiga 500?

    I have nothing against harley riders in the same way I have nothing against women that stay with men that beat them, its not that they arent great people, good riders or not smart, its just there judgement is a little off.

    PS Darrens a legend, he has balls like harley airfilter covers, big and made of steel.

  2. #137
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    4th April 2004 - 15:05
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    One point you missed was the US governments willingness to impose tarriffs on imported motorcycles while HD found it's feet and came back from the brink of bankcuptcy.

    I love how the US touts "free trade", except when their manufacturers get hammered then they're all for tarriffs (still so long as no one else does the same thing).

    [/off-topic rant]

  3. #138
    One thing has always puzzled me - the winningest bike in any series has to be the XR750,this bike has dominated dirt track racing for over 3 decades,and before that it's side valve predicesor.If you want to ride dirt track in the USA then you ride an XR750 - it's a HARLEY DAVIDSON,orange and black,it has a 45deg V twin and nothing can beat it....so how come HD has never marketed a bike that remotely looks like a flattracker? they made the cafe racer XLCR,the rest are just Harleys.Oh,they made the XR1000,and if you go back a few pages you will see a photo I took of a friend of mines XR1000,but see how it has been made to look like a cruiser,even having right side pipes.

    If they made a streettracker I would try my hardest to get one.
    In and out of jobs, running free
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  4. #139
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    29th September 2003 - 12:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu
    One thing has always puzzled me - the winningest bike in any series has to be the XR750,this bike has dominated dirt track racing for over 3 decades,and before that it's side valve predicesor.If you want to ride dirt track in the USA then you ride an XR750 - it's a HARLEY DAVIDSON,orange and black,it has a 45deg V twin and nothing can beat it....so how come HD has never marketed a bike that remotely looks like a flattracker? they made the cafe racer XLCR,the rest are just Harleys.Oh,they made the XR1000,and if you go back a few pages you will see a photo I took of a friend of mines XR1000,but see how it has been made to look like a cruiser,even having right side pipes.

    If they made a streettracker I would try my hardest to get one.
    They do it's called a sportster.
    The pipes are available over the counter,Change the rear wheel an bars and you have a tracker.All you gott'a do is spend between $15-20000 on a bike an then F with it.Hmmmm,You'd have to be keen huh!!

  5. #140
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    3rd February 2004 - 08:11
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    Have Sportsters got the two front heads and dual Mikuni's?
    Cycle mag did an in depth article on the alloy XRs when they replaced the iron motors. HD were using these for road racing as well as flat track. HD also bent the rules by a huge amount when the used a modified front head on the back cylinder so they could run dual carbs but apparently the AMA felt there was little chance of them winning so they let HD get away with it
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
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  6. #141
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    5th September 2003 - 12:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by White trash
    Hurricane! Imagine what you'd pay to get one now IF you could find someone prepared to let one go!
    At either the Sound of Thunder or the Britten meeting at Ruapuna earlier this year (went to both and can't remember which one it was) there were two (two!!) parked together in the carpark. I hadn't seen one for many years. They were both immaculate. I was very impressed.

    Being frustrated is disagreeable.

    But the real disasters in life begin when you get what you want.

  7. #142
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    5th September 2003 - 12:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrandom
    And it's 'Agusta'.
    Thanks JR - I've only just read this thread, and had been dying to correct Oscar, but didn't want to come across as a know-it-all bitch.......

    Being frustrated is disagreeable.

    But the real disasters in life begin when you get what you want.

  8. #143
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    5th January 2004 - 11:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber020
    Like the fashion industry the Harley industry bothers me. As far as a products go they are not very good but as for a brand they are incredibly successful.
    Yes well as for me I know very little at all about bikes (yet) but Harley have the merchandising corner of their market sewn up - I've mentioned this before but in Hamilton at one of the bike shops I saw Harley Davidson Ken dolls!
    My goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog already thinks I am.

  9. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackrat
    They do it's called a sportster.
    The pipes are available over the counter,Change the rear wheel an bars and you have a tracker.All you gott'a do is spend between $15-20000 on a bike an then F with it.Hmmmm,You'd have to be keen huh!!
    Sure you can make a Sporty look like a flattracker,but hardly anyone does - and most importantly HD themselves have never capitalised on the domination of the XR750,it's almost like they ignore the most sucessful bike ever produced.

    As you know the streettracker look is popular for XS650s,one day the factories will look at what customisers are doing and copy it,but it's kinda late for HD don't you think?
    In and out of jobs, running free
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  10. #145
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    26th April 2003 - 12:39
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    Yeah - just what I want too. And, as for the beer - be thankful you don't have partake in this XXXX or VB , over in Oz !! Give me a Canterbury Draught any day, ... or Speights !
    Jane

  11. #146
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    26th April 2003 - 12:39
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    Blaa blaa blaa......mmmmmm - well you've called me a sucker for buying something I still love - that's amusing!!
    This is my 10th year of riding everything from Honda's, Daytona's, and now a Harley for a past 6 years. I'll never be converted back to anything else ( sorry to disappoint you ). Over many wonderfully exhilarating journeys with hundreds of fellow bikers during the last decade, ( and at least 60% of the duration spent riding in rail, hail snow, and blasting southery winds ), I could not be happiers with my life. I speak for many of the friends ( mostly HD riders ) that once you ride HD, it's very rarely you'll find too many yearning to convert back to other brands - it's a passion for a lifetime.

    Can anyone explain why the Japs have copied the Harley Big Block style, and HD had to take out a copyright on the sound.....because they wanted to take that too !! (Since then ,the patent on the sound has been dropped, so thus the rumbling Hondas emerge.)

    Food for thought.
    Jane

  12. #147
    Let me guess......hhmmmm.....could it be something to do with money?
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  13. #148
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    4th November 2003 - 13:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu
    One thing has always puzzled me - the winningest bike in any series has to be the XR750,this bike has dominated dirt track racing for over 3 decades,and before that it's side valve predicesor.If you want to ride dirt track in the USA then you ride an XR750 - it's a HARLEY DAVIDSON,orange and black,it has a 45deg V twin and nothing can beat it....so how come HD has never marketed a bike that remotely looks like a flattracker? they made the cafe racer XLCR,the rest are just Harleys.Oh,they made the XR1000,and if you go back a few pages you will see a photo I took of a friend of mines XR1000,but see how it has been made to look like a cruiser,even having right side pipes.

    If they made a streettracker I would try my hardest to get one.
    You'd have to ask why it is they can domiante that class,if you look at the history of American flat track you would find that even from the 50's & 60's any time someone built a bike that could threaten Harley on the dirt tracks the rules got changed to either elimate it or restrict it.

    Several companies make Harley flattrack replica's some of them are very very nice indeed and it suprised me as well that it wasn't a market the parent company would exploit.

    Harley had tried to copyright or trademark the sound starting in 1994,but ended up withdrawing the application in 2000 after trying for 6 years so there wasn't ever a patent on the "Harley" sound.
    "If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."


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  14. #149
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    29th September 2003 - 12:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu
    Sure you can make a Sporty look like a flattracker,but hardly anyone does - and most importantly HD themselves have never capitalised on the domination of the XR750,it's almost like they ignore the most sucessful bike ever produced.

    As you know the streettracker look is popular for XS650s,one day the factories will look at what customisers are doing and copy it,but it's kinda late for HD don't you think?
    Yeah it is to late for HD now.Reading The HD owners web sites it becomes pretty obvious that a Lot of old school HD owners are not happy with being ignored by HD in favour of the yuppie set.HD must be walking a very fine line at the moment.They could learn from Triumph and listen to what the faithfull are saying.I think HD are so stuck in the custom cruiser mode their in for a very short future.

  15. #150
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    19th August 2003 - 15:32
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    Quote Originally Posted by geneandjane
    Blaa blaa blaa......mmmmmm - well you've called me a sucker for buying something I still love - that's amusing!!
    This is my 10th year of riding everything from Honda's, Daytona's, and now a Harley for a past 6 years. I'll never be converted back to anything else ( sorry to disappoint you ). Over many wonderfully exhilarating journeys with hundreds of fellow bikers during the last decade, ( and at least 60% of the duration spent riding in rail, hail snow, and blasting southery winds ), I could not be happiers with my life. I speak for many of the friends ( mostly HD riders ) that once you ride HD, it's very rarely you'll find too many yearning to convert back to other brands - it's a passion for a lifetime.

    Can anyone explain why the Japs have copied the Harley Big Block style, and HD had to take out a copyright on the sound.....because they wanted to take that too !! (Since then ,the patent on the sound has been dropped, so thus the rumbling Hondas emerge.)

    Food for thought.
    Jane

    Converted?
    It's a motorcycle fer god's sake...
    What is this thing with branding?

    I recently bought a new car - it just happen to be a Holden that looks a little bit sporty (note I said "looks" sporty) I bought it for various reasons, includiing size and price. Now it turns out to be a bogun magnet - it's either "..why didncha buy a Ford, Mister" or "...Holdens rule..."...it's just a bloody car, people - one that has as much in common with an Aussie V8 supercar as my TDM does to Rossi's M1...

    Over the years I've had thirty-summat motorcycles or differing brands - mostly Jappers and the odd Euro (some very odd Euros - a CZ250). I think I've had more Honda's than any other brand, but I'd never, ever say "I am a Honda man"...why limit yerself? I had an Yamaha IT one year and a Suzuki PE the next for reasons of performance, not image...

    I guess it just confirms what I had suspected over the years - there are two groups of motorcyclists - the racers, people who ride what they do mainly for reasons to do with how the motorcyle performs, and the lifestylers - those who want the whole image thing, the sound, the look and all that...

    As for why the Japanese started making cruiser, why wouldn't they? When the started, HD was a complete joke, and not expected to last. If they could build better and cheaper bikes, they'd be mad not too. Besides, it could be argued that Yamaha had a hand in kicking off the whole cruiser thing, with it's XS650 Special...

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