Harley Davidson

[Oscar]

Thanks JR - I've only just read this thread, and had been dying to correct Oscar, but didn't want to come across as a know-it-all bitch.......

It's probably a good thing you didn't.
Perhaps JR could explain this:

MV Augusta Website

The rebirth of the MV Agusta brand, the repositioning of Cagiva amongst high-powered motorbikes, and the constant evolution of Husqvarna products, have been the main stages in the development of the MV Agusta Motorcycles S.p.A company.

[scumdog]

Harley also makes mobile homes, they serve all, from the newly wed to the nearly dead. Actually I think its mobile homes (marketed under another name but having simular performance specs) division helped it keep alive during the 80's. They also do specialist farbricating for trucks.

Harley davidson is not a good manufacturer or developer of motorcycles, as a company their core compantancy is there marketing which is largely based on there historical image association with gangs (and wannabe rebels) and being US made.

When applying strategic theory to what the company was going to do to compete in the international market, Harley first realised that at the time they couldnt sell overseas in any sort of volume. Harley recognised they couldnt beat other manufacturers in quality, performance, handling or price (although they were at a considerable advantage tax and tarrif wise to the other makers). They had to sell using the one thing they could offer, that they were USA all the way. (yeah right). They revamped there production processes to install some build quality, (some of there machineing tools were still of the mass overhead belt driven type-running off a single generator in the factory).
Engine tolerances were improved and to help with reliability harley engines were produced understressed. (ie their 1340cc engine put out a little over 60 hp). Japanese components had to be used as Harley was unable to produce these of such a quality to meet the new standard of its own quality control and cost effectiveness. They have also set a policy of underproducing to increase demand and thus percieved value. Sure their resale is more, its because theres a few thousand suckers waiting on the factory to spit them out and that the average harley does relatively low unstressed miles and isnt exposed to the rain much, if at all.

Harley also found that there were alot of older white collars getting back into motorcycles after there kids had left home. These guys did to Harley what they had done to Corvette years earlier, they brought machines based on earlier admiration at a time they didnt have to option to buy one. (The Nissan 300 car failed in the US not because it wasnt as good as the corvette but because guys that brought it had always wanted to have one since they were young).
Harley as a company have never worked hard, there r and d puts more into show than go, they are able to sit back and make backwards bikes and people pay more for them. Like truimph they didnt deserve to survive the early 80's, its only been luck, the Hells Angels and the same mindset that thinks the US should invade everyone and is right in everything that it does that has saved it.

If I was to offer you a car that was the size of a falcon with a 6L v8 engine that produced the same power as a toyota corolla 1.6 and build quality of the same yet cost twice as much, how many harley fans out there would buy it? Or a computer that for $5000 performed like a Amiga 500?

I have nothing against harley riders in the same way I have nothing against women that stay with men that beat them, its not that they arent great people, good riders or not smart, its just there judgement is a little off.

PS Darrens a legend, he has balls like harley airfilter covers, big and made of steel.

Yep, I'd buy that car - if you could make it look like a '67 fastback Mustang or a '63 Galaxie convertible.
I bought a Sporty because thats what I WANTED! if I wanted to go real fast etc I would have bought a Hyabusa in the first place!
By the same token I have a Sako rifle, an old 303 would do the same job most of the time too but I WANTED a Sako

[Jackrat]

It was Kawasaki that made the first cruiser styled bike then Yam and then HD
then Susuki.Anybody that thinks the japs are copying HD with the cruiser style have it wrong.HD didn't come out with a factory custom until the superglide based Night train.The style may be American but HD had FA to do with it.They just followed a trend that was set by chopper riders But the japs beat them to it by two years,,so who's really copying who??
Bloody HD huh,, just a Kawasaki clone!!

[jrandom]

It's probably a good thing you didn't.
Perhaps JR could explain this:

MV Augusta Website

Um. Sorry, Oscar, what am I supposed to be explaining? Your 'MV Augusta' link that points to mvagusta.it?

[Oscar]

Um. Sorry, Oscar, what am I supposed to be explaining? Your 'MV Augusta' link that points to mvagusta.it?

My mistake - I thought you were trying to say they had dropped the "MV", as opposed to correcting me spelling...(which is bad form, IMHO)...6

[jrandom]

bad form, IMHO

I know, I know... the hair is well and truly split. I wouldn't, normally. I just know *so* many people that get 'MV Agusta' wrong in precisely that manner that it leaped out as an opportunity to make the point.

[Oscar]

I know, I know... the hair is well and truly split. I wouldn't, normally. I just know *so* many people that get 'MV Agusta' wrong in precisely that manner that it leaped out as an opportunity to make the point.

It was pretty dumb - the poster is on the wall beside my desk....

[Motu]

You'd have to ask why it is they can domiante that class,if you look at the history of American flat track you would find that even from the 50's & 60's any time someone built a bike that could threaten Harley on the dirt tracks the rules got changed to either elimate it or restrict it

Too right - the AMA made the rules to suit HD,too sad to even laugh at.

The history of both forms of speedway are interesting to look at - the English left it open and allowd specialised bikes to develope,with the likes of Wal Phillips working with JAP on motors and developing special frames.Speedway bikes have been locked in a formula for years,but the design came about through lack of rules.

The Yanks on the other hand stepped in early to stop factory teams dominating,making factory specials illeagal and allowing riders to buy bikes on the showroom floor.Of course it didn't stop the manufactorers,but it set the style of bike as street machine.When the English OHC racers like Velo and Nortons showed their form of course they were promptly banned,then the pushrod bikes were limited to 500cc to keep the side valve Yank bikes competitive - actualy not a bad rule as they were evenly matched.In 1971 capacity was lifted to 750 regardless of engine and Harley were hit hard,but then as suitable bikes to base a flattracker on became limited the XR750 became the only bike to win.Except of course the fabulous RS750 from Honda.

They had a Sportster class a few years back and now Streettrackers are an up and coming class - check these two out.Rich King had a lot of success on the RS750 Honda,looks like he's still a Honda man.

[scumdog]

You are just not paying attention and you still haven't read all of the thread yet have you?

Why the hell am I wasting my breath?

Whoa JIm2, your pushing it there, My 1200s Sporty is the "GT" of the H-D line!!! If you know of a better handling H-D let me know

[scumdog]

Too right - the AMA made the rules to suit HD,too sad to even laugh at.

The history of both forms of speedway are interesting to look at - the English left it open and allowd specialised bikes to develope,with the likes of Wal Phillips working with JAP on motors and developing special frames.Speedway bikes have been locked in a formula for years,but the design came about through lack of rules.

The Yanks on the other hand stepped in early to stop factory teams dominating,making factory specials illeagal and allowing riders to buy bikes on the showroom floor.Of course it didn't stop the manufactorers,but it set the style of bike as street machine.When the English OHC racers like Velo and Nortons showed their form of course they were promptly banned,then the pushrod bikes were limited to 500cc to keep the side valve Yank bikes competitive - actualy not a bad rule as they were evenly matched.In 1971 capacity was lifted to 750 regardless of engine and Harley were hit hard,but then as suitable bikes to base a flattracker on became limited the XR750 became the only bike to win.Except of course the fabulous RS750 from Honda.

They had a Sportster class a few years back and now Streettrackers are an up and coming class - check these two out.Rich King had a lot of success on the RS750 Honda,looks like he's still a Honda man.

Motu my man, don't be too hard on the H-Ds, they are a bit like the Formula Ford racing, the idea is to make the racing linked to the drivers ability rather then th HP of the bike/vehicle

[Motu]

This thread is getting too long and we are forgeting who we are - earlier on I mentioned an XR750 is the only Harley I want...sits on one of my highest pedestals.It was made to a formula as you say,but any bike can be used.With the bikes all the same the racing is very close and all about the riders abilities not the bike.Flattrack is one of the most exciting forms of bike racing - seeing the lead change four time in a corner is good stuff.(I got some videos in the early 90s when Sky were showing it)

[nallac]

heres an old thread for you harley bashers..................................

[James Deuce]

Lol. Don't feed the troll.

There was a historical (hysterical) framework that will be lost on people now too.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Sure you can make a Sporty look like a flattracker,but hardly anyone does - and most importantly HD themselves have never capitalised on the domination of the XR750,it's almost like they ignore the most sucessful bike ever produced.

As you know the streettracker look is popular for XS650s,one day the factories will look at what customisers are doing and copy it,but it's kinda late for HD don't you think?

Ta Daaaaahhhhh!!!


ask and you shall receive. Oh, wait, in an inspired bit of genius, Europe only.

and if HD are so good at marketing, why would they stop importing something that looks and performs like a real motorbike, not some stupid luxo-barge? I refer to the XL1200R.

[Bonez]

Where are the moderators when you need them most?

Mind you prices have dropped quite sharply since Jim2s OP in '04. My how time flys..........