To hang your ass off your seat or not?

[mynameis]

Is the question. I got told once; I was too stiff and lacked proper movement/ right motion when cornering which apparently wouldn’t allow you to take corners faster or lean into it more to take it faster.

So I took that on board and started practising moving my ass, sticking my knee out and head and elbow movement proportionally.

Got into me so much that I’ve now started doing this a lot even on 50 k build up areas and I feel much more comfortable doing it as opposed to sitting rigid on the seat.

Again I recently got told not to bother doing that especially in 50 k area and that it makes a slight difference in 70 80 100 k zone obviously bearing in mind the speed at which you’re riding.

Now I do understand and realise there are few factors which affect the above like road condition, how acute the bend is, your speed, your skill, track or out commuting and so on which will determine if it’s beneficial or not.

My main concern is though how would I clearly distinguish if hanging off the seat does indeed significantly help me take the corners faster? Without just a blatant answer like “don’t you see them do it in MotoGP”. I have gone out and tried doing both on the same roads and to be perfectly honest I can’t really tell if I am going any faster or leaning more while taking the corners or not but hanging off does feel more comfortable now.

[Big Dave]

Alvin - I strongly urge you to get you questioning arse into one of these courses
www.rrrs.org.nz
and they will guide you through countersteering, leaning and where to get your weight.
Then they will let you go hard at it on a disused part of Whenuapi Air Field.

The short answer is 'It depends on how fast you are going.'

The faster you are travelling the closer to the apex of the corner you can get your mass the better - but there is a point of decreasing return with less velocity and countersteering becomes better.

google countersteering - there are heaps of references.

[Pwalo]

I can't really see how hanging off the bike is going to help you on the street, especially at quasi-legal speeds. Smooth is the key to road riding.

You can shift your weight without sliding your backside off the bike, just by lowering your shoulder into a turn. Probably the most important skill you can learn is to counter steer, but even this you should only have to do gently on the road.

I'd suggest that what you are trying is more appropriate to the track. Perhaps you should give Dig Dave's idea a go.

[Lou Girardin]

You may think hanging off in suburban streets looks cool, it doesn't. It's the bike equivalent of wearing a cap backwards and sitting on the floor of your rice racer. What it does do, is place you in the wrong position should you need to take evasive action mid-corner. Racers do it because they know every corner that's coming up and position themselves accordingly. If little Sebastian runs out in front of you when you're hanging off the left of the bike and you need to veer right, you and he are in deep shit.

[Quasievil]

You may think hanging off in suburban streets looks cool, it doesn't. It's the bike equivalent of wearing a cap backwards and sitting on the floor of your rice racer. What it does do, is place you in the wrong position should you need to take evasive action mid-corner. Racers do it because they know every corner that's coming up and position themselves accordingly. If little Sebastian runs out in front of you when you're hanging off the left of the bike and you need to veer right, you and he are in deep shit.

Exactly what he said, no need for it on the road, moving around on your bike in the twisties is all good, I ride better this way, but (not that you say this) knee down style on the road will get ya in a crash farily quickly.
On the road I have never had my knee down, its just not needed, on the track I get my knee down all the time, not from trying to either just the lean angles are so much greater.

[FROSTY:Me]

dude I can show you pictures of guys at insane lean angles who are sitting bum firmly planted on seat. I cant remember my last ONROAD knee down experience
At your level of experience dude FORGET about your mates advice.
Relax-- forget about body position.
Theres heaps of other things to think about before worrying about that detail

[Bend-it]

Good point Lou... I had read some of the cornering tips in Bike and was trying it out at a hammerhead on the way home... Found that I took it at the same speed but used less of the road, so theoretically could have gone faster and used the whole road...

HOWEVER, once I'd shifted my weight off my bum, I was committed to the line, and would have been tricky changing my line mid-corner (maybe it was just noobiness ).

Just like driving, I guess there's a different skillset required between road and track biking...

[beyond]

Some real good comments, especially from Lou and Quasi.

You aren't on a bike that suffers from ground clearance issues unless your suspension is so soft it's compressing right down under load when cornering.

Knee down riding is ok for the track but risky on the road. You need to know every corner as Lou pointed out. But, some people try to get their knee down on every corner and end up getting in your way, when you are still in your seat. It becomes more show than technique as they are too busy trying to get their knee down, they end up slowing things up.

Getting the arse of the seat without the knee down, is a different story.
On my bike (1400) in high speed sweepers and real tight bends, my pegs touch down, then the side stand and then the main stand, which kinda upsets your grip somewhat So, I need to hang off the bike, without my knee down, in order to stay with the guys on sports bikes, when moving fast.

This serves several things. You can take a corner faster as your lean angle is less for a given speed over staying in your seat. This means you touch down later, can corner faster and keep things more stable. i.e. I know a nice sweeper that I can take at 120kmh sitting on my seat and the pegs are just touching the tarmac. Hanging off the bike, I can take the same corner at 135kmh before the pegs touch down.

It is also beneficial to get your arse off the seat in the wet. This means the bike stays more upright for the same cornering speed and means less chance of a sideways slideout.

Forget it around town.

[Quasievil]

I remember well my first knee down experience, it was at a manfeild on my 636, I was intent on getting my knee down and through Higgins I tried and tried, but just couldnt, I just forgot about it after two track sessions, the third session I just concentrated on lines and power and braking. and guess what....................through Higgins I had my knee down !!!!!!!!! it was a awesome moment, for me anyway, I was so happy about that I knew I could do it lap after lap, you know what? next lap I couldnt do it.
Point is relax focus on power, brakes and lines and smoothness, then it will come to you, If you try It probably wont happen, or you will look like a Knee poser (you will look dum).

Thing I am working on with my riding at the moment (on the track) is my head position, I find if I lead more with my head ie hanging my head out watching where Im going (not where Ive been) I find I am alot smoother in the corners. After watching GP last week I see alot of the riders doing the same thing, just a small thing but actually makes me better in the corners

[roogazza]

I often wonder what guys think while they are trying to hang off and an old fart on a Bandit slips by and disappears !!!! ????
Why even bother trying to smash your knee into the road, I should imagine it would hurt ? G.

[mynameis]

Alvin - I strongly urge you to get you questioning arse into one of these courses
www.rrrs.org.nz
and they will guide you through countersteering, leaning and where to get your weight.
Then they will let you go hard at it on a disused part of Whenuapi Air Field.

The short answer is 'It depends on how fast you are going.'

Hey Bid Dave - Cheers for that, read through it sounds like a reasonable course especially if they are focusing on counter steering and cornering plus it's close to home

You can shift your weight without sliding your backside off the bike, just by lowering your shoulder into a turn. Probably the most important skill you can learn is to counter steer, but even this you should only have to do gently on the road.

Pwalo - I agree with you there but perhaps I wasn't clear in my initial post, I don't really stick my ass out completely all the time but I tend to do it often now. With the subject of counter steering which I know has been raised on KB a million times but doesn't that happen naturally and sub consciously without you realising it most of the times?

[craigs288]

Im only 75kg and my bike is 220-ish and I find it makes a big difference even to move off to the side just a little. But only going at open road speeds. Under about 70kmh I find it is pointless.
If you find some quiet stretch of road with some nice corners you can play around with varying amounts of hanging off the bike.
I found I can get around some corners with the bike just about upright but with me as far off the side as possible.

[Beemer]

I am very disappointed that Hitcher hasn't responded and said that hanging any kind of large animal like an ass off your seat would be not only potentially dangerous (can you imagine the weight?), but more than likely would earn you a severe reprimand from the SPCA. My advice is, don't do it.

[R6_kid:Me]

Watch me when you come out for a ride next week dude. The physics of it mean that having your weight inboard does make the bike slightly more stable, and in some cases it makes it turn the same radius corner with less lean (talking like 2-3deg).

The most beneficial things i've found for high speed riding are weight over the forks as much as possible (get it forward and low), and leaning into the corner, looking for the exit, but not with my knee out.

Its a choice of style, but going for knee down on the road is asking for more trouble than its worth.

Compare the attached pic of 'The Doctor' with me in my profile pic, we're leaning off the same amount, he's just going a fuck load faster and leaning it over more.

[skelstar]

I tried moving off my seat through some twisties a while back and immediately wondered why I hadnt done it more. I felt I had much more confidence through the corner and have tried to amke it a habit since. Im arguably not going any faster, but Im sure Im smoother and, again, more confident.

Doing this in suburbia is a bit silly though. Cant change your line as easy, and I like using my back brake.