the progressive workers' strike

[SwanTiger]

I don't like to see people get done over, but if you don't want minimum wage, don't get a minimum wage job?.

It'd hardly be fair if the guy who sweeps the streets gets the same as a doctor

-Indy

We Human beings are gifted with the unique ability to decide our path in life and there are ample opportunities to exercise that gift every day.

As for your 'fairness' comparison between a Doctor and someone in street maintenance; This is a poor argument as you are trying to contrast the difference of social responsibility based on generalisations.

In my opinion they are equal as one seeks to cure ill health whilst the other prevents ill health through maintaining the sanitry standards we enjoy today.

Visit such a place as Thailand for perspective in terms of public sanitry standards.

Anyway, back to your first comment regarding 'people getting done over'.

I agree with you and hate to see it happen but it does happen and if people are aware of it and choose to accept it then they deserve what they get as they've exercised the little 'Gift' I mentioned above.

It's nice to see people on strike and trying to get what they believe they're rightfully deserved - Still believe they should try moving on to new opportunities though as it is now evident that they're unlikely to acheive anything worth while with this strike.

[LilSel]

Still believe they should try moving on to new opportunities though as it is now evident that they're unlikely to acheive anything worth while with this strike.

I Agree...

I worked for Progressive (was woolies till the takeover) for 5 years, I started there when I was 15yrs old & still at school (after school and weekends etc). When I finished school I worked there full time up to the age of 20.
I didnt have any probs with the amount that I got paid, as it was better than nothing!
Without the experience and work history I gained there, I would not be where I am now in a well paid job (a little over 2yrs) in an industry that I love.

There will always be a need for someone to stock the shelves, scan groceries and man the drive thru window... thats just life.

Start at the bottom, have ambition, work hard and you'll be rewarded.
(well...thats what I think anyway lol)

one more thing... if the workers got a 30% increase... grocery prices would go up... and even more parents wouldnt be able to put food on the table for their kids...??? right?? or wrong?
there are lots of places that pay worse than progressive does... and those pple have mouths to feed too...

[Paul in NZ]

I don't really know enough about the detail to have a strong opinion on this.

I do know that there are people in low paid work that are really struggling to get by BUT on the other hand, there is a real shortage of labour at the moment and a good attitude and some ambition can really get you going.

BUT - How the heck can this happen under a Labour government...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3787359a10,00.html

As an ex Union Branch Committee member, I'm simply amazed.... The company obviously does not care what this stuff does to their image - never would have happened a few decades ago.

It just goes to show that these people are really powerless to negotiate a 'union' agreement. It's so medievil...

Paul N

[Ixion]

Security guards and police armed with batons continued to face off with the protesters at press time.

And d'y' still wonder why I oppose arming the police with Tasers ? Any cops want to still maintain the fiction that Tasers will only be to protect them from "vicious criminals" ?

But the policehave always been the willing tools of the capitalists, nothing has changed since Massey's Cossacks.

[Hitcher]

But the policehave always been the willing tools of the capitalists, nothing has changed since Massey's Cossacks.

For heaven's sake. Stalin put police to pretty useful effect as well.

[Indiana_Jones]

As Viper says:

"Now, we don't make policy here, gentlemen. Elected officials, civilians, do that. We are the instruments of that policy."

-Indy

[Lou Girardin]

But the policehave always been the willing tools of the capitalists, nothing has changed since Massey's Cossacks.

None more willing than the current crop. Howard is shaping up just like Robbie.

[kevie]

BUT - How the heck can this happen under a Labour government...

As an ex Union Branch Committee member, I'm simply amazed.... The company obviously does not care what this stuff does to their image - never would have happened a few decades ago.

It just goes to show that these people are really powerless to negotiate a 'union' agreement. It's so medievil...

Paul N

YEP thats one of my concerns ..... our generations have worked hard to enable an environment where workers have the ability to negotiate with the employer.

I see a danger in what is happening here that will cancel out all that was achieved over the years, Heres a group of workers that is making what the company claims is an unrealistic demand, and a company that is challenging the unions and workers power to sway the situation.... they have taken on SLAG labour and are seemingly not being that inconvenienced. AND teres still customers in their shops, and Progressive is big enough to absorb the lost sales longer than the strikers can handle the no pay.
Progressive, should they win the battle will set the platform for all other employers to run roughshod over the workers and drive down wages and conditions
This should be a concern to all of us..... Im not saying they should give in to the demands, BUT I always feel if theres job satisfaction and fair treatment theres less chance in a workplace of problems and unrest...... sure in our society the bug that has bitten businesses of GET GET GET more $$$$s and higher profits is starting to bite the workers too where they are demanding "the right to a share of these profits".... years ago it used to be "Im happy with my job and the boss treats me good and I have enough to meet my needs".

I was thinking the other day..... what would happen if the public of NZ got united (good Tui Adv I think) and all stopped going to progressive stores....and rang their local store to tell them they werent going there because of the strike and non settlement.... I bet there would be a quick settlement then.
I have never needed the union, never been on strike .... Ive only had a couple employers (in 37 years) that were pricks and I simply voted with my feet and moved on.

[Lias]

As an ex Union Branch Committee member, I'm simply amazed.... The company obviously does not care what this stuff does to their image - never would have happened a few decades ago.

Well personally I'm making sure I only buy from progressive supermarkets atm, to support them.

Its just a pity we cant get a government that will truly break the power of the unions.

[TLDV8]

Does anyone know what the pay rate is and what they are asking for ?

[Lou Girardin]

Well personally I'm making sure I only buy from progressive supermarkets atm, to support them.

Its just a pity we cant get a government that will truly break the power of the unions.

National tried it with the ECA, funny how you can never totally crush peoples rights. Even guns have failed.

[McJim]

Does anyone know what the pay rate is and what they are asking for ?

There will be various pay rates I would imagine but it won't be far off mimimum. Reason is the general public refuse to pay a fair price for their groceries so the supermarkets cannot afford to pay a fair price for staff.

I buy my stuff from New World coz they treat their staff better but it costs me quite a bit more - that's the pay off I'm afraid.

Alledgedly it's somewhere between 4 and 8 percent. But the media have got it so far wrong so far ....I'm just not sure.

Not like we'll find anyone in the know on the kiwibiker website - progressive don't pay their employees anough to buy motorbikes!

[Hitcher]

Let's not have a discussion about what being "fair" involves, other than a lot of bullshit nonsense.

Unions have their place. But just as there are exploitive employers there are also bullying unions. Fortunately our world is not dominated by either group.

I think that history will prove that Laila Harre went too far with her union's action against Progressive, in all likelihood and sadly to the detriment of its members.

[Paul in NZ]

The problem is not unions - it's the imbalance of power. Too much on either side and you have a problem.

Believe it or not, not every employer are nice, decent people like Finn. There are some utter bastards out there and unfortunately, some people do need protection of unions. The bigger the company the worse they are in some cases.

At the moment, there are job options aplenty so moving to another job is possible BUT in other times that is not a realistic option and history tells us, the ordinary man can get well screwed. It happens, I've seen it happen and I've seen the other side of unions as well...

Still, ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chances....

[Ixion]

..
I think that history will prove that Laila Harre went too far with her union's action against Progressive, in all likelihood and sadly to the detriment of its members.

Yes, I don't think she picked her battle carefully enough. There's no real meat in it. Unions need to pick their causes carefully, pick something that is easily understood and generates public sympathy. A strike over having one national contract instead of three regional ones (that's not really what it's about, but that's what tyhe public see) doesn't grip the heartstrings.

I wouldn't say she went too far, because with Progressive there's no middle ground, you either roll over and accept the shafting, or fight. But she needed to manufacture a more spinnable casus belli.