Gunshop employee charged

[jrandom]

Err, does that mean that I have convinced you and your now on my side ?

Dunno, what's your side?

I'm just sayin'. I've already proposed an idea in this thread relating to what I think would be a common-sense approach to legally arming deserving citizens.

The idea of throwing the gates wide open on the basis of some sort of supposed universal right to bear arms, however, stinks to high heaven.

Edit: To reinforce my point, what was the violent crime rate in NYC before the handgun ban, eh?

I dunno what it is with gun nuts and their apparent love affair with fallacious arguments.

[mstriumph]

dunno about davereid, but MY side is .............. well - the right of the weaker members of society to survive, i guess

i'm female, good with a cutting word but not good with my fists
i rode an unreliable bike in south africa - i carried an automatic
in two afterdark bike breakdown situations it turned me from 'prey' to 'person' in the eyes of potential attackers

that's sufficient for me - in that situation i wouldn't have hesitated one second to shoot - that must have been obvious - they went away

the automatic was given to me by my garage-owning boss at a time when necessity forced me to keep reletively large sums of company money at my home - i did tell him that, given half a chance, i would hand his money over to an attacker rather than shooting him/her

i am defensive - not aggressive

i am a miltant pacifist [with occassional homicidal tendancies when pushed but no malice]

......... unless aggression is my only means of defense

[mstriumph]

............................
I'm just sayin'. I've already proposed an idea in this thread relating to what I think would be a common-sense approach to legally arming deserving citizens.

The idea of throwing the gates wide open on the basis of some sort of supposed universal right to bear arms, however, stinks to high heaven.

.............................
I dunno what it is with gun nuts and their apparent love affair with fallacious arguments.

i think you'd need to define 'deserving' and specify who would decide who met that criterion [and how those judges would be qualified ............... and by what standard --------- and by whom ..... and so on - ad infinitum - ad nauseum ]

attractive as it may be to place trust in our politicians and lawmakers, it is probably naive to believe these authorities are sufficiently moral or upright to recognise those qualities in others.

[mstriumph]

Well done. I get annoyed when people use completely unrelated comparisons to demonstrate relative actuarial risk. If one fears cars, one can choose other forms of transport. If a bullet is heading one's way, one has comparatively few options...

I get annoyed when people attack the wording of a post to denigrate a perfectly simple, understandable comparison that
gives weight to an argument and moves the debate forward

IMHO if a CAR is headed one's way, one has comparatively few options .......

... by manipulation of language a horse chestnut CAN be made to seem to become a chestnut horse ..............it may be clever, but it detracts from the thread mr hitcher ........

[Finn]

New Zealand is second with 105.881 per 1,000 people

Fuck, I'm getting a gun.

[Lou Girardin]

Both are mere mechanical devices, yet the one NOT designed to kill does just that better than the one that IS designed to kill.
Go figure.

Unless, there were two guns in every home and they were used mindlessly several times a day by ill-trained people.
I think that you might find the figures reversed.

[Hitcher]

IMHO if a CAR is headed one's way, one has comparatively few options

Especially if the car is travelling at, say, 600 metres a second and was less than 500m away the last time you saw it...

[Big Dog]

The partisan nature of this thread is clear and present evidence of why gun control is important.
If like minded individuals who were surfing the same site (a special interest one at that and limited to those who already had a profile) and were attracted to the same thread by a three word heading can spark 22 pages of debate (that often loses it's point by becoming personal as opposed to logical) where would the intelligence be in having us all now congregate in the same room while each armed with a 9?

How many of us would still be standing at the end of a evening of conversation?

Add a little booze, how many now that our inhibitions and social concience are gone?

Now have someone cheat on their mrs by F?>king someones sister and spread the word, is there any one not at least wounded?

Now have start an argument about gun control? The only people left are those that are willing to kill anyone who disgrees with their idea of human rights....

Sadly, these are all things that people have been killed for.
Unfortunatly Darwin is incorrect in this case it will not be the best specimens or the fittest that survive. It will be with those with the lowest sense of social decency and least sense that they will have to live with the result.

Laws exist because by and large as individuals we lack the ability to make it through our lives (and in some notable cases our days) without offending someones sense of decency.

Sadly we will always need someone to weild a big stick and say I don't give a shit what you think, I don't care what I think because when I pull on by Uniform I carry a my (insert weapon relative to armed force or police) at the behest of the people for the people.

Equally sadly the people who set the rules these bastions of democracy enforce are chosen by people (too stupid to not get caught selling forged paintings or cheating on their wives) who were elected by people who are too stupid to live without rules or wars.

In conclusion to my little rant:
Thems the rules, don't like it and want to carry a concealed weapon at work?
go work a 7/11 in the us.
Want to live where you can have a reasonable expectation that no one is carrying a concealed weapon (excepting armed offenders) stay here.

[Big Dog]

As an aside rather than a statement because I no longer have the statistics, according to one of the three armed robery courses I did, you are seven times likey to be harmed in a armed robbery in the U.S.A.

The Armed Robbery Tutor believes that the reason is that in an armed robbery the offender is concious that the attendant will be armed 50% of the time. This paranoia is then fuelled further because they got pretty desperate by the time they got here , and usually "medicate" their nerves before they start.

[Pixie]

" Seven years ago Badger Outdoors,a gun shop in West Milwaukee,stopped selling $70 handguns,after a govt. study showed that it was the nations leading supplier of guns that were later recovered from criminals.Now,follow-up research shows that the move singlehandedly reduced the supply of new guns to criminals in the city by 44%.
While the shop was selling the handguns,it took 90 days on average before police confiscated them from criminals.Now that the cheapest gun costs $350,the average period has gone up to five and a half years.
- New Scientist 7/9/2006

[Pixie]

Thanks Geoff, I dont have all the links to hand, but there is a wealth of evidence linking crime to criminals, and rejecting links between access to firearms and crime.

Just for your interest..

Dominica leads the world in total crime per capita, with 113.822 per 1,000 people. New Zealand is second with 105.881 per 1,000 people, and Finland is third, with 101.526 per 1,000 people. Yemen has the lowest, with 1.16109 per 1,000 people. The data comes from the Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

Just looking at homocide..

NZ rate 2000 = 3.0 per 100,000 people - Source NZ Police

US rate : lower than ours in 16 states, with Maine, New Hampshire and Nth Dakota at half our rate or better and iowa at 1.6.
Source wikipedia

This is interesting.Yemen wouldn't by any chance have sharia law,would it?

[Patrick]

[I can think of no more hideous society where people arm themselves with weapons they don't understand, or appreciate, or most of all respect.
[/LEFT]

I can... the USA...Hideous...

[Patrick]

On "sunday" last night:It seems the weapon was "in a semi loaded state,for protection in the shop"
The cop interviewed was a nob-"you can defend yourself but can't provide yourself with a weapon to do so"
Said no comment a lot

Can't say much at all... even though you would want to... it is before the courts...

[Patrick]

That's because the matter is before the Court. Inappropriate public discussion may prejudice the likelihood of a fair trial.

Doh... like "E" sed....

[Patrick]

Guns are weapons. Cars are transport appliances.

Not forgetting cars CAN be weapons too... just like that guy who deliberately ran over that chick who was helping a guy he had run over just moments before...