Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

[Sketchy_Racer]

Please engage brain prior to posting nonsense.
I NEVER raced a motard, I always raced road bikes.
HOWEVER, I NEVER had a problem with chook chasers racing in any of the classes I was in. If that's the only bike someone owns, let em race it in ANY class it is eligible for. If a motard wins any race, it has justified its entry into that race and tough luck to the whiners who chose the wrong option.
As for motards being slow in corners: bullshit! If the motard you see is slow in a corner it's the rider who's slow not the bike. A 100kg motard is as fast as anything ridden well around corners.
If the line they take pisses you off, tough luck, that's racing and the same line could be taken by any road bike too (I tried to always take a different line; it's the best way to pass).
As for sliding into corners; at Wanganui only 1 rider did that and he was the Aussie import on the Aprilia. Racing is racing and all lines are eligible as well as all styles. Hell, I used to slide my CBR around corners too albeit under power out rather than in. People whined about my scarey lines and sliding back then too but screw them: I won races and rarely fell off.

So when you were racing back in 1882....

When was the last time you raced?

Of course you didnt care about the motards racing with you. you were on a fucken CBR600. You have more straight line speed and more cornering ability.

And, not its not just racing. I pay my money to race 125s, not to get irritated with motards (and any other bike for that matter) , At the moment there is not enough 125s to get their own class. So i just have to put up with F3. BUT because motards have thier own class, is it not to hard for them just to stay in the class that they have been given?

Also, they get to ride thier bikes off road as well, they are getting a shitload more ride time than race bikes, which struggle to get ridden once a month

I have no beef with the Motards. they just need to keep it in thier class. I Cant enter my 125gp bike in the motard class, so why should they be allowed to enter into F3??

[Joni]

Guys... please dont feed the troll!

[Sketchy_Racer]

nah, that's a boring idea. It would lead to small fields and boring racing.
NZ is just too small for restricted fields.
Petition MC NZ for a 125 only class and if you get one, I'd guess it'd last about 2 seasons before it was canned out of sheer boredom.

I dont believe it would lead to boring racing.

It would make choosing what class to join easier. Instead of deciding on which class you are going to get the least amount of intereferance from bikes in the wrong class

And why would i waste mine, and everyone else time and effort to get a 125 class at the moment?

The clearly just aint enough of them (in the NI anyway)

But i hope that more of the younger guys like myself coming from street stock see that to become a great racer, you have to do it in steps. I believe a 125 is the most important step to do so, due the fact that you DONT have huge HP to make up for your stuff ups, so you HAVE to learn to ride around a corner, Fast

Would i like a 125 class to its self?? Of course!! i would love it!!

Is a feasible at the moment?? No, and its not fair on other racers having to wait for 5 guys to finshing going around the track/

[dangerous]

I enjoyed racing with the Motards at my second race meeting. The way I see it, is the racing line is the racing line no matter what you're riding and the only variation is when you're passing someone or trying not to be passed. I think alot of people get pissed off at being beaten by a chook chaser. Simple as that!

You are very green girl.

Retards take a VERY different line, open your eyes and you will see.
NO... I dont give a rats arse if I get beaten by a retard, well no more than any other style of bike, thats just a dumb remark.

Leave them in. Much more interesting to watch than those plastic covered things.

If they comply with the entry critaria what is the problem?

Problem... pleanty actually:
They take different lines causing havoc
brake and acelarate different causing havoc
take up a shit load of room when cranked over
over fill the F3 classes to excess
dangerous foot work (not all)

Now I say this being a racer and being involved with theses bikes, thers enough of them to have their own feild, they fuck corners up big time for road bikes, they stop very fast and ulter direction very quickly.

I have had several very close calls with these guys, and seen much more... I now drop back when a retard gets in front of me as they are so unpredictable.

Read the other day that a retard guy had his fot run over cos he hanged it out and put it through a bike wheel... those X moto cross guys are awesome... but you CANT ride like that with road bikes.

And I would like to add nowere else in the world do they race with road bikes.. why you ask... simple... a true Motard race is done on the seal, and dirt, you wont se a road bike doing that.

[idleidolidyll]

So when you were racing back in 1882....

When was the last time you raced?

Of course you didnt care about the motards racing with you. you were on a fucken CBR600. You have more straight line speed and more cornering ability.

And, not its not just racing. I pay my money to race 125s, not to get irritated with motards (and any other bike for that matter) , At the moment there is not enough 125s to get their own class. So i just have to put up with F3. BUT because motards have thier own class, is it not to hard for them just to stay in the class that they have been given?

Also, they get to ride thier bikes off road as well, they are getting a shitload more ride time than race bikes, which struggle to get ridden once a month

I have no beef with the Motards. they just need to keep it in thier class. I Cant enter my 125gp bike in the motard class, so why should they be allowed to enter into F3??

Yawn.

If a motard has to stick to their class, why the fuck are you racing a 125 in the F3 class? Isn't that for 400's?

As for my old CBR having better cornering ability than a motard: rubbish! I reckon a good CR500 at just over 110kg was a waaayyy better bike in corners than my old pig of a CBR.

Get the point son, if the bike is eligible it should be allowed to race and fuck the whiners.

BTW: No son, I retired in the 90's and no son, I didn't ONLY race CBR600's, I raced more bikes than I can even remember. That's the problem when you pluck nonsense from the dark hole: it often comes up smelling like shit. Don't try to guess what I've done or put words in my mouth: you'll only make a fool of yourself. If you are really interested just ask instead.

FYI I've road raced everything from buckets to F1 and BEARS. If my bike was eligible for a class at a meeting I damn well entered it. The more track time the better. If you've chosen to ride a bike that's only eligible for 1 class or is non competitive in other classes, that's your problem not mine so please don't whine to me about it.

[idleidolidyll]

I dont believe it would lead to boring racing.

It would make choosing what class to join easier. Instead of deciding on which class you are going to get the least amount of intereferance from bikes in the wrong class

And why would i waste mine, and everyone else time and effort to get a 125 class at the moment?

The clearly just aint enough of them (in the NI anyway)

But i hope that more of the younger guys like myself coming from street stock see that to become a great racer, you have to do it in steps. I believe a 125 is the most important step to do so, due the fact that you DONT have huge HP to make up for your stuff ups, so you HAVE to learn to ride around a corner, Fast

Would i like a 125 class to its self?? Of course!! i would love it!!

Is a feasible at the moment?? No, and its not fair on other racers having to wait for 5 guys to finshing going around the track/

That's always been the case. NZ racing has never really had a 125 class because it just isn't popular and probably never will be.
They ALLOW YOU to ride in the F3 class and 125's generallytake different lines to a 400 so you shouldn't really complain about other bikes just because can be ridden differently.

The short answer is buy a different bike, choose more wisely about what will be competitive and just get on with racing instead of complaining.

[dangerous]

Harden the fuck up.
When I was racing.

What has hardening up have to do with jack shit?
I get the feeling that you last raced 50 years ago, you are some what on your own here cobber.

if the bike is eligible it should be allowed to race and fuck the whiners.

Or fuck someone else... motards are not eligble in F3 any more so smoke that.
Fella, you are loosing this big time.

[idleidolidyll]

It all depends if you race one or not doesn't it. I don't care anymore. I hope no one complains if I turn up to race F3 on a 250 Grand Prix bike.

a 250cc 2 stroke isn't eligible for F3 is it? Not unless the rules have changed in the last few years anyway.
250cc 2 strokes are eligible for the F2 class at a minimum. If it's a rotax or something I'd suggest you race BEARs as well and get more track time in.

[vtec]

I'm another racer who thinks they are quite dangerous. I've only been beaten by a couple (in the dry, in the wet I got owned cause I only had dry tyres), but at the last PMCC race meeting, I ended up tussling with one guy for ages, cause I would wait for ages to set up for an overtake, get the overtake done maybe on a corner exit, and then I would be setting up wide for the next corner, and he'd carve me up on the inside backing it in, go really slow mid corner, point it out of the corner and shoot. They don't take conventional racing lines at all, but their speed into the corners and out of makes them pretty hard to over take. And they fully mess with road bikes flow. Yes I do need to get faster, but the problem is that you can get stuck trying to clear a motard, and it will mean that the other road bikes in front can get away while some dude is blocking you into every corner entry, and yes you do need to be very careful around them, cause they are often past the limit of their traction and you can't tell where they are going to go next, hence the fact that it was hard for me to make passes on him, but easy for him to pass me, despite the fact that I was quicker around the circuit.

Also at that meeting in the first lap of one of the races one of them slid the back out so far that he lowsided right infront of me, and this was when everyone was still piled together, caused chaos everyone trying to avoid him. It was easy enough for me to avoid him cause I could see him, but the people behind me wouldn't have had the same chance and also could have caused them to plow into me when I broke unexpectedly. I think someone told me that he did get run over.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yawn.

If a motard has to stick to their class, why the fuck are you racing a 125 in the F3 class? Isn't that for 400's?

As for my old CBR having better cornering ability than a motard: rubbish! I reckon a good CR500 at just over 110kg was a waaayyy better bike in corners than my old pig of a CBR.

Get the point son, if the bike is eligible it should be allowed to race and fuck the whiners.

BTW: No son, I retired in the 90's and no son, I didn't ONLY race CBR600's, I raced more bikes than I can even remember. That's the problem when you pluck nonsense from the dark hole: it often comes up smelling like shit. Don't try to guess what I've done or put words in my mouth: you'll only make a fool of yourself. If you are really interested just ask instead.

Why am I in F3??
Cause i am made to

Why are Motards in F3??
Cause they want to.

There is a difference.

If i had a class to my own, i would fuck off from F3 and leave them to it. Im not a F3 bike am I? no. Neithers a Motard.

My point is, Why are motards allowed into the streetbike classes just because thier engines let them??

My engine is small enough to enter the motard class, Sweet im going in there

Yeah, right.

If you cant get in and out of a corner faster than a motard, maybe you need to harden up? (as previously i was told to)

Maybe you should return to racing in F3. then you can see first hand how much 'fun' it is now with motards hop-scopping around.

BTW, this aint no dig at you man. You raced bikes and did well on them, that i am yet to even think about going fast on

[Joni]

OK I have asked nicely already...
Keep this thread free of personal attacks please, its good subject, the attacks are not needed, just state your opinion.

Keep it clean.

[idleidolidyll]

What has hardening up have to do with jack shit?
I get the feeling that you last raced 50 years ago, you are some what on your own here cobber.

well obviously you're feeling the wrong piece of anatomy.
My last race win was in the 1990's as was my favourite: World Superbike support race at Manfield

and what has 'that' got to do with it?

well the fact that I have raced amongst chookies in road races suggests I am able to speak from experience.

The fact that I raced with them and never complained whether they beat me or not suggests I have an opinion worthy of the first post. If ya don't like it tuff luck.

As for hardening up, that's remains my suggestion. If it's eligible it should be allowed to enter just as 125's enter the F3 class and hold up some 400's with different lines and lack of grunt on the straights.

once more, harden up, learn to race more than 1 line and stop whining when other bikes beat ya.

[Ixion]

I know very little about racing nowdays, and speak entriely as a spectator (or, rather, non spectator).

Firstly, the motards are interesting from the spectators point of view

Secondly, if it be proposed to exclude them, may this not prove difficult to define. What, after all is a "motard" . We all know one when we see one, but how would you write the rule, strictly enough to avoid someone getting round it. their engines are permitted, so you would have to say that some aspect of the bodywork or suspension was forbidden . About the only thing I can see that is noticeably different is that they do not have fairings.

Thirdly, it seems to me (and bear in mind that I speak entirely as an outsider) that it is a bit illogical to say that certain machines (which, on the basis of engine size, power, etc are permissable) should be excluded simply because they encourage a different riding style. Especially as it appears that sometimes that different style is faster. Is that not part of what racing is about ? Improving the breed? If the motards corner differently , yet still win races, maybe that indicates that they are the way of the future?

I wish though that we had motard races with the "off road" bit as they do overseas. That would be worth going to see, the combination of rough going and fast track. Especially if the off road bit was more than a token few yards of cnders. Interesting challengte that would be when it came to tyre selection!

[dangerous]

A) My last race win was in the 1990's

B) The fact that I raced with them and never complained whether they beat me or not suggests I have an opinion worthy of the first post.

C) If it's eligible it should be allowed to enter and stop whining when other bikes beat ya.

a) my last race win was only months ago so I think I am more so up to date than you.
b) yeah... in the 90's things have changed big time and verty recently.
c) well Retards aint eligible any more... so YOU stop ya bloody winging

OK I have asked nicely already...
Keep this thread free of personal attacks please, its good subject, the attacks are not needed, just state your opinion.

Keep it clean.

What are you on about???

[idleidolidyll]

What has hardening up have to do with jack shit?
I get the feeling that you last raced 50 years ago, you are some what on your own here cobber.



Or fuck someone else... motards are not eligble in F3 any more so smoke that.
Fella, you are loosing this big time.

losing what? a 'race' of opinions?
there aint no losers in this thread mate, only opinions.
yours is as 'valid' as mine.

Under the old rules a single cylinder 4 stroke of any capacity was eligible for F3 and it made for interesting racing. Dave Moore on hios Morbidelli versus Bill Birch on his KTM engined Ginger Molloy special was a sight to see.
If they've changed the rules to outlaw big singles in F3 then they are barking mad. If they've done it by specifying supermotards, then there are many ways around the issue (ie., a MX bike is not a supermotard unless it was sold as one so just fitting 17" wheels to a chooky should do).

The last thing I want to see is the tiny fields because of restrictions like the suggested motard ban. This happened in the mid eighties and because of it BEARs took over as the best racing format with huge fields and lots of prize money. By about 1988 BEARs was bigger than traditional racing with the Sth Island Sound od Thunder meeting making a $30,000 profit and offering by far the best prize money. BEARs became that popular because the other classes were restricted and only the latest greatest had a chance to win. The suggestion to ban motards is much the same merry go round.