Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

[Rashika]

Dopey hick country? In his backyard? Against the might of a factory race bike? No you are right, no one could do that.....

nope no-one at all
especially not a kiwi from chch with a blue and pink bike

[Brian d marge]

The factories just have more resourses to screw things up... they have a guess , test it then if its profit conducive ..they do it

doesnt make em the bees Knees , I know better engineers doing their first year at Uni in chch , than work in the factory

And a piece of crap loving thrown together by its owner will ALWAYS　have a slower corner speed than a bike that some thought has been given to ( rs125 or otherwise )

ie I could build a bucket that would put me mid field in the moto gp field .. ( i would team up with a good machinist, copy what has been done , throw a truck load of money at it ,and go racing ... ( exactly what the BSL did if I remember, then they found out it WAS REALLY EXPENSIVE ....)

trouble is the factories have a few more truck loads of money than I do ..

A well put together bucket should be only slightly slower , due to the parts it has to use , ie production based ( heavier , greater tolerances used on in the parts making )

Oh and the rider ,,,, gut bucket gertie is definately a few hp/kg down !!!

Stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you want to chase chooks get a dirt bike

If you want to race on sealed roads get a road bike

This form of racing is brilliant to watch, but they should be made to stick to there own class

Motards should have there own class! and should probally have there own meetings

I can agree that now they're so popular as far as competitor numbers go they should have and stick to their own class (and I race one!), but not with the rest of your comments.

Years ago I used to race KX500's in F2 before motard was even born, and won a shitload of races against some pretty good riders. But as the 600 proddie based bikes got so much better, it made a 500 two stroke moto-x bike nowhere near competitive enough.

But when I race moto-x, if you wanna come and take me on- on your GSXR1000, I say bring it on mofo! Just because my RMZ450's origins were the dirt, doesn't mean that if there was a particular street race track where they'd be competitive now I shouldn't be able to take on anyone with ANY bike!

I do agree that there are too many guys (and Gals maybe) taking fucked up racing lines on their motards, that can and do cause problems for the road race bikes....but they simply need some 'education'. Fuck, my accident at Wanganui '05' was caused by some 'Peanut' doing just that.

Years ago now I raced at the one and only (I think?) Auckland street race round the warves area (so long ago now I can't even remember exactly where it was, but I've still got pictures!), and I faced so much fucking PETTY SHIT from the ROADRACE franternity doing everything they could to stop me riding, it was a fucking JOKE. There was around 80 bikes entered in F2, and they split it into two groups (A....fast) (B....not so fast). Well after trying to fail my near new KX500 for every GAY FUCKING EXCUSE I've ever heard in scruitineering (none of them valid), they were finally GOOD ENOUGH (despite the fact that like everyone else there I'd paid my very expensive entry fees well in advance and driven all the way from Wellington OVERNIGHT TO GET THERE) to let me 'RACE' in the 'B' group. This DESPITE THE FACT THAT I WAS 8TH QUICKEST OUT OF THE 80 BIKES IN PRACTICE. Only after me getting someone within the then ACU with half a brain to intervein, did I convince them of the error of their ways and let me race with the 'A's! So they started me off grid spot 39. How fucking safe was that?? Because what? I DARED show up to this huge street meet where they were holding the AUSTRALIA VS NZ F2 CHALLANGE?? Where the two teams had their best SIX RIDERS on late model TZ YAMAHAS doing battle...and the late ROBERT HOLDEN on his well potent oversized Ducati? So from 39th on the grid I managed after having to barge my way (wouldn't have had to have been so agressive if they were sensible and put me in my rightful grid spot) through far too many slow ROADRACERS to get my way to 6th at the finish of race one. It was FUCKING DANGEROUS to start someone going up to several seconds a lap quicker than most of them having to come through from the back.

So obviously quite pleased with my effort, I looked forward to race two.....especially as I must surely have earnt my 6th spot on the grid!!??

Well.....no actually....I was told in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that if I continued to pull wheelstands the lenght of the front straight on my BUILT FOR WHEELSTANDS KX500 that I'd be BLACKFLAGGED for DANGEROUS RIDING.
This, from the STUPID ARSEHOLES that thought it CLEVER and SAFE to start me ONCE AGAIN FROM 39TH ON THE GRID FOR RACE TWO. Now anyone that was actually there way back then, will no Doubt remember ROBERT HOLDEN doing WHEELSTANDS the length of the front straight on that hugely impressive Pantah based Ducati.....no blag flag threat to him right? And please don't think I'm trying to compare myself to Robert, as on a street circuit, I'd never be cheeky enough, and not many ever did compare......but
EXCUSE ME?

So GUESS WHAT HAPPENED IN RACE TWO?

Yeah funny that......I once again had to barge and carve my way from 39th to 6th again in about TEN MEASLY FUCKING LAPS!

So my chances of having a crack at the top three guys were shot.....my prize money severly DEPLETED.....because WHY? I showed up on a KX 500 and DARED WASTE a lot of the then 'NAMES' of NZ and Aust ROADRACING on late model PURPOSE BUILT ROADRACE BIKES?

I could be wrong....But I'm pretty sure it was 'THE AUCKLAND MOTORCYCLE CLUB' hosting and 'controlling' the EVENT.....WELL IT NEARLY PUT ME OFF ROADRACING for GOOD!

As far as I'm concerned, the STUPID-RUDE-FUCKING DANGEROUS FUCKHEADS that ran the event should've refunded my entry fees. AND licked my SWEATY BALLS.

They weren't and never will be 'MOTORCYCLISTS'.

Rant (yeah I know) finally over.

[DEATH_INC.]

Yet another way of looking at it. They don't put dirfters and NZV8's out on the track at the same time, hell I don't think they even use the same meetings. But they are both modified rearwheel drive road cars with around the same power output.

Simple, drifters don't race, they are more like 'how close can you follow without passing'.

[DEATH_INC.]

Years ago I used to race KX500's in F2 before motard was even born, and won a shitload of races against some pretty good riders. But as the 600 proddie based bikes got so much better, it made a 500 two stroke moto-x bike nowhere near competitive enough.

I usta watch those races on the telly! You usta go well orright.
I think you guys need to be careful not to alienate the 'tards from roadraces, just remember their entry fees etc help pay the bills too.....racing in NZ isn't big enough to sustain segregation like overseas.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I usta watch those races on the telly! You usta go well orright.
I think you guys need to be careful not to alienate the 'tards from roadraces, just remember their entry fees etc help pay the bills too.....racing in NZ isn't big enough to sustain segregation like overseas.

Mate....that's the last thing I'd want....and exactly what I was ranting about in my post...it WAS and normally IS the roadrace guys that want the dirtbikes OUT.

I've done KX500's in F2, KR1SP's in 250 Proddie, HD's in Twinsport, and now back to my 'Roots' on my RMZ450.....we're all just guys and gals racing and having fun....no need for the road race guys to want to get rid of us and vice versa. But like I said....just cause our bikes (motards) were born in the dirt, shouldn't mean we can't come and play with the 'Tar Babies'!

[DEATH_INC.]

Sorry mate, the comments weren't aimed at you......

[scott411]

Mate....that's the last thing I'd want....and exactly what I was ranting about in my post...it WAS and normally IS the roadrace guys that want the dirtbikes OUT.

I've done KX500's in F2, KR1SP's in 250 Proddie, HD's in Twinsport, and now back to my 'Roots' on my RMZ450.....we're all just guys and gals racing and having fun....no need for the road race guys to want to get rid of us and vice versa. But like I said....just cause our bikes (motards) were born in the dirt, shouldn't mean we can't come and play with the 'Tar Babies'!

crasher, i was at the race on the warfes, must have been about 1988 ort 1989 and i remember a KX500 carving up street bikes, that was a long time ago,

here lies the problem, motards have no problems with big fast road bikes ripping past them on the back stragiht when they out of hp and gears, we fight back to pass in the tight sections as this is where we have a bit of an advantage and we get told that we are dangerous,

Motards are proping up road racing in the country at the moment, with out the 30-40 entries they birng in (not counting the 2nd set of entry's when we are allowed)

I was planning on doing the NElson Street race next year, but if it comes to bear that i will only get 2 races in a day i will not drive that far, simple,

i am not saying i should get to enter 5 classes, but 2 would be nice, if i am not allowed to put my leg out in f3 then thats ok as well.

[dangerous]

I think you guys need to be careful not to alienate the 'tards from roadraces, just remember their entry fees etc help pay the bills too.....racing in NZ isn't big enough to sustain segregation like overseas.

I dont think anyone at all want the tards alienated, we all seem to love watching that class of bike... but most would like to now see them in their own class... at every meet.

[Sketchy_Racer]

i am not saying i should get to enter 5 classes, but 2 would be nice, if i am not allowed to put my leg out in f3 then thats ok as well.

Im sorry, but i disagree.

The Fomula classes are and should be for dedicated road race machines!

Motards ARE NOT dedicated road race machines ( and dont even go on about these new fucken aprillias etc)

If you wanna race in the formula classes, GO GET A FORMULA BIKE. Just the same as if i wanted to race in the motard class, I would go get a motard bike, Right?

you say motards bring extra money by cross entries, well, if 10 motards enter thier own class at lets say $100 (ease of math) and a extra $10 to enter a second class

So, all 10 guys to enter F3 have made the equvilant of 1 entry into a formula class.

Now, lets say three riders wont come to an event, because they dont want to race against motards, well theres $300 gone.

As i said earlier, the rules need to say for the formula classes (excluding any bikes derived from the dirt)

And then, if the check-book racers on the new 20K aprillias want to come in, well i guess they fit through the rule. Which is Ok. People dont mind 3 or 4 of them.

But, if the enter the Formula classes, they cant enter the motard class, same as if they enter the motard class, they cant join the formula class.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Dopey hick country? In his backyard? Against the might of a factory race bike? No you are right, no one could do that.....

I would be hard pushed to believe that the Britten out handled a superbike of the same Era.

Just watching a short video of it coming around a bend, with the front chattering the whole way is enough to lead me to believe that it wasnt so great in the handlng department.

But, i could be wrong. Maybe i should ask Andrew Stroud next time i see him at the track..??

[gav]

Im sorry, but i disagree.

The Fomula classes are and should be for dedicated road race machines!

Motards ARE NOT dedicated road race machines ( and dont even go on about these new fucken aprillias etc)

If you wanna race in the formula classes, GO GET A FORMULA BIKE. Just the same as if i wanted to race in the motard class, I would go get a motard bike, Right?

you say motards bring extra money by cross entries, well, if 10 motards enter thier own class at lets say $100 (ease of math) and a extra $10 to enter a second class

So, all 10 guys to enter F3 have made the equvilant of 1 entry into a formula class.

Now, lets say three riders wont come to an event, because they dont want to race against motards, well theres $300 gone.

As i said earlier, the rules need to say for the formula classes (excluding any bikes derived from the dirt)

And then, if the check-book racers on the new 20K aprillias want to come in, well i guess they fit through the rule. Which is Ok. People dont mind 3 or 4 of them.

But, if the enter the Formula classes, they cant enter the motard class, same as if they enter the motard class, they cant join the formula class.

So is Jason Eastons YZF450 Tigcraft out of F3 then? And why is a SV650 considered a dedicated road race machine then, it requires a hell of a lot more work done to prepare it to road race spec than a production built motard? So if you want to buy a brand new bike to race in F3 then you're limited to a SV650?

[Crasherfromwayback]

crasher, i was at the race on the warfes, must have been about 1988 ort 1989 and i remember a KX500 carving up street bikes, that was a long time ago,

here lies the problem, motards have no problems with big fast road bikes ripping past them on the back stragiht when they out of hp and gears, we fight back to pass in the tight sections as this is where we have a bit of an advantage and we get told that we are dangerous,

Motards are proping up road racing in the country at the moment, with out the 30-40 entries they birng in (not counting the 2nd set of entry's when we are allowed)

I was planning on doing the NElson Street race next year, but if it comes to bear that i will only get 2 races in a day i will not drive that far, simple,

i am not saying i should get to enter 5 classes, but 2 would be nice, if i am not allowed to put my leg out in f3 then thats ok as well.

lol....that'd be me mate.....after the hassles I was given, I was in no real mood to be nice on the track.

I dunno though man....there's enough of us now to do our thing in our own class.....I've never raced in joint classes, I feel we should leave the F3 guys and girls to it. Gets too confusing for the spectators as well if we're (motards) popping up in every class too.

Mind you....might simply be that I'm that old and unfit now that two races is more than enough for me....

But the way some of the 'motard' guys ride now is FUCKING SHITE. For example...Wanganui is faster and more flowing than a lot of people think....I was blown away by how many times I was nearly cut in two by some absolute retard homo doing his (her?) best impression of 'Motard Racer Extraordinaire'.....trying to square off fast corners with a foot out, wheel locked....in the fucking WAY! When I went down on the bridge there in '05', I put the thing down to avoid some goober that decided it was a good idea to perform a 'blockpass' on me at 100 odd km's per fucking hour!
Yeah I'd gone up the inside a little too hot, but yeah it was clean and all I needed to do was run out to the edge of the track to complete the pass.
If I'd not done what I did, and 'T' boned that fuckhead instead, it could've seriously hurt us both (instead of just myself!). So if whoever did that is reading this.....and I know you know you did it as you came over to apologise after the race while I was on my way to hospital......(and I appreciate the gesture and know racing can be tough) there's no need or place for block passes on a road race track on 100k corners!
Slow corners yeah....moto-x tracks fucking yeah!....but no wonder some of the racers on proper race bikes freak and don't want us riding with them!

[onearmedbandit]

I would be hard pushed to believe that the Britten out handled a superbike of the same Era.

Just watching a short video of it coming around a bend, with the front chattering the whole way is enough to lead me to believe that it wasnt so great in the handlng department.

But, i could be wrong. Maybe i should ask Andrew Stroud next time i see him at the track..??

Maybe you should, however handling problems were one of the characteristics they had difficulty with. My main point is that you shouldn't write off this dopey hick country so quickly.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Maybe you should, however handling problems were one of the characteristics they had difficulty with. My main point is that you shouldn't write off this dopey hick country so quickly.

I'm with you mate! Kiwi's have long had the top Japanese race engineers scratching their heads....engine wise too.....Anyone here ever hear of Dicky Lawton?....with a T500 hand ported by himself faster at Daytona than the factory Suzukis....chassis and engine performance is not always black and white.....cunning and the balls/experience/patience to experiment and look outside the square.