Germans should build bikes!

**crazybigal** · 24th January 2007, 14:03

phhh lancia delta, check out this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQigN057dMw
alfa 164 pro car v10

Originally Posted by cooneyr

Ground breaking technology - phhhh whatever. The Lancia Delta S4 had the turbo and super charger and they sorted the problems then. The 1.8-litre homologation car had 250 hp and 214 lbft of torque, while the rally car had at least 470 hp and 333 lbft. Apparently the crash of this car was what started the demise of the Group B cars. 1.8l car weight 1200kgs

All of this stolen from here http://www.autozine.org/strange_car/...0.htm#Delta-S4

Bugger the heavy V8 - I'll have one of these or the Pug 205 T16.

Cheers
R

**JayRacer37** · 24th January 2007, 18:51

Originally Posted by degrom

Just checked the latest VW Golf. The one with the TSI technology...

TSI uses a supercharger for low revs and a turbocharger for high revs. VW says that despite the 1.4-litre capacity the combination of supercharger and turbocharger enables the TSI engine to produce 125kW (170bhp) of power at about 6500rpm, and 240Nm of torque between 1500 and 4750rpm, a similar output to the V5.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/...419932&ref=rss

WOW! Ten HP less than a GSXR-1000, with 400cc more, and a turbo AND a supercharger!! Now...I wonder what it weigh's?? and how big it is........maybe they should stick with cars....

**degrom** · 24th January 2007, 19:00

Originally Posted by JayRacer37

WOW! Ten HP less than a GSXR-1000, with 400cc more, and a turbo AND a supercharger!! Now...I wonder what it weigh's?? and how big it is........maybe they should stick with cars....

That specs are great!!! if you take a carbed 1.4 Golf Mark 1... Output is about 50KW with almost 100NM... And the new model is about 200kg more!!! (Worst is it's not even a sport's car!!!)

**avgas** · 24th January 2007, 19:02

Originally Posted by Fish

Curves can have degrees of flatness. It's not a binary proposition.

Everything is flat when you look close enough

**JayRacer37** · 24th January 2007, 19:17

Originally Posted by degrom

That specs are great!!! if you take a carbed 1.4 Golf Mark 1... Output is about 50KW with almost 100NM... And the new model is about 200kg more!!! (Worst is it's not even a sport's car!!!)

Co

mpare apple's to apple's. Look at the jump in technology. Your talking a golf mark 1, I don't really know car's but, what, late 70's model?? Now look at a late 70's japanese 1000 bike, one which would have been the premier bike in its day. It would have made around 80HP?? Maybe. So you have more than doubled output in that time for bikes. Around about the same as the diffrence between the cars. My point was/is, that with 400cc capacity more, a turbo and a supercharger, they only managed to make horsepower comparable to our top bikes? Yes, they are sports bikes, but imagine what Suzuki, or Yamaha, or Kawasaki or Honda could do with 1.4L, a turbo and a supercharger?? Bring on 400HP+, in a sports application, i'd think. and it would be half the size of VW unit. The torque would be monstrous, and it would be easy to ride because they would be able to engineer a very LINEAR (not flat) power and torque curve with the excess they would have...then imagine that motor in a streetfighter GSXR-1000 style frame...what the B-King SHOULD be! And yes, I do have a thing for big, fast wheelies!!

**Titanium** · 24th January 2007, 19:28

Originally Posted by degrom

BMW don't impress me...

I am talking of bikes like a GSXR or a Ducati...

What German bikes can compare to them?

K1200S ....... K1200R ......

**degrom** · 24th January 2007, 19:32

True.... I am still impressed!!!

But man you are spot on with the bikes,I am just wondering how a 400hp Busa feels... Must be lots of fun!!!

**degrom** · 24th January 2007, 19:33

Originally Posted by Titanium

K1200S ....... K1200R ......

Why do I get the idea I am going to regret what I said...

**Lou Girardin** · 24th January 2007, 19:54

According to the great Jezza Clarkson, the Golf has a uneven, unpredictable throttle response. An altogether poor replacement for the 2 litre turbo engine.
Technology is not always the answer. Give it 5 years and it might work.
God forbid they use this shit on bikes.

**cooneyr** · 24th January 2007, 20:00

Originally Posted by crazybigal

phhh lancia delta, check out this!
alfa 164 pro car v10

Thats not the point. The technology i.e. twin chargers, is not ground breaking as stated in the article. It has been in road going cars before (although it was a homologation car).

Cheers R

**nudemetalz** · 24th January 2007, 20:27

The other car engine which is quite impressive is the S2000.
Normally aspirated 2.0 litre which pumps out 240ish HP with a 9000rpm redline.
You half the cylinders and output, you have a 1000cc twin with 120hp (VTR1000 ballpark).
No need for a turbo there.

(They're great fun to drive BTW !!)

**crazybigal** · 24th January 2007, 20:41

yes mighty s2000, not allot of normally aspirated cars can put out that sort of power per letre
my alfa is 3l and makes 190-200hp

Originally Posted by nudemetalz

The other car engine which is quite impressive is the S2000.
Normally aspirated 2.0 litre which pumps out 240ish HP with a 9000rpm redline.
You half the cylinders and output, you have a 1000cc twin with 120hp (VTR1000 ballpark).
No need for a turbo there.

(They're great fun to drive BTW !!)

**JayRacer37** · 24th January 2007, 21:10

Originally Posted by nudemetalz

The other car engine which is quite impressive is the S2000.
Normally aspirated 2.0 litre which pumps out 240ish HP with a 9000rpm redline.
You half the cylinders and output, you have a 1000cc twin with 120hp (VTR1000 ballpark).
No need for a turbo there.

(They're great fun to drive BTW !!)

About similar red-line too a VTR too....hmm. A car that has the tuning level a bike recives..not sure if i'm happy about that or not! Bikes are performance, arn't they?? nah, that IS impressive spec's for a car.

**CRM** · 21st May 2013, 17:31

Bringing back an old thread... I just bought a 2008 Golf 1.4 TSI 90kw with DSG (7 speed auto dual clutch set up like Yamaha FJR1300AE I assume) as a replacement for my V6 250GT Skyline. What a cool engine! I'd love to see this concept in touring bike - supercharger for low-end torque and turbo for top end with the perfect gear ratio on tap at all times - not so much for the power you can produce but to get decent gas mileage by super-efficient use of fuel that the combination gets. Sure you can get masses of power if you want to but I reckon in a touring bike you should be able to get decent performance with super economy.

The Golf gets 5.9 l/100km from its 1.4 with similar output to a 2.0 to 2.5 litre car. It actually feels way livelier to drive than my auto 2.5 skyline because of the fat torque and the direct gearing. That economy is only slightly higher than my ST1100 and quite a bit better than I used to get on my R1100R and my Trophy 1200. Applied to a bike you could get 1200cc performance from a 700cc bike with 700cc economy - like an NC700 Honda engine say with twin charger and DSG gearbox

. Its the way of the future I reckon.