*Warning* Maori sovereignty thread *Warning*

**The_Dover** · 2nd February 2007, 23:38

Originally Posted by elle33f

Dover - i suggest you put that alcohol down or whatever it is you are taking and settle. You seem to have judged me based on what? A differing view to yours? man oh man

As for my race being irrelevant to you - thats an interesting point because for something so irrelevant.......it sure makes you angry huh!

Have a lovely evening
Kia Ora e hoa!
Elle

you race doesn't make me angry. your demands for recognition based on it do.

I haven't judged you, you're the one with an agenda.

I choose to treat people based on who they are, not what they are. Can I demand to fly the scottish flag (based on my heritage and that of many thousand kiwis) on the harbour bridge St Andrews day?

**elle-f** · 2nd February 2007, 23:44

Dover again you have totally got me wrong. I have no agenda....i just replied to a thread and posted a lovely pic HAHA and I have also stated that I judge people on whether they are assholes or not.

Who but you say that I demand recognition? I know who I am and I know what my culture/s are. I have absolutely no issue with that.

Go for it with the Scottish Flag. I again, have no issue with that. I am not Transit nor a member of it and I don't make decisions whether a flag may be flown or not. It wouldn't matter to me anyhow! I really don't give a toss what flag hangs there!

**pixc** · 2nd February 2007, 23:46

GROUP HUG!!..

ooops

wrong thread

**elle-f** · 2nd February 2007, 23:48

pixc

Have a great night Dover - I am heading off to bed after a huge day at the 7s! You have a good sleep when you get there

**mstriumph** · 3rd February 2007, 02:05

the Aborigines get to fly their traditional Aborigine flag here and everyone has to respect it as a central part of their culture .......

............ the really hilarious part of that being that Aborigines didn't have textiles until the advent of the first fleet ...........

**Dafe** · 3rd February 2007, 05:39

It's a day off - Thats all I give a shit about... Another day to go riding!

It can provide some excitement too on the odd occassion.
Nothing beats watching Motu garden!

**elle-f** · 3rd February 2007, 05:44

Dafe - i concur *L*.

**Lou Girardin** · 3rd February 2007, 06:23

Originally Posted by Ixion

Go and visit the Goldie paintings of ancient chiefs in the art gallery.

Funnily enough, Goldie is not the flavour of the month with the Maori grievance industry, his portrayals are a bit too real. A bit too colonial, they don't capture the Maori myth as they think they should.

**Smorg** · 3rd February 2007, 06:26

Originally Posted by mstriumph

............ the really hilarious part of that being that Aborigines didn't have textiles until the advent of the first fleet ...........

What are you talking about............they had clay and stuff just check out the cave paintings

**Clockwork** · 3rd February 2007, 06:43

Originally Posted by elle33f

.... I would actually like to see the Maori Flag flying beside the NZ Flag as I see both of them as mine.

Surely that's the issue, while the NZ flag does represent us all the Maori flag doesn't, its a flag of exclusivity, a sort of "up yours" that these people want to fly on a day that the rest of us are trying to celebrate nationhood/unity.

**Clockwork** · 3rd February 2007, 06:49

Originally Posted by candor

You'll get nowhere by JUST treating the physical manifestations, in many cases that will just increase health epidemics eg attention seekers. The history of nursing is long but if you're interested...

Witches.... politically active, used range of potions and counselling
Victorian prostitutes (took rich dying old men home)...
Florence Nightingale (made what the hookers did respectable tho had trouble recruiting 'nice girls' to do such stigmatised work initially)... very socially and politically active like advocated for hygeine / ventilated facilities, health education and health promotion
Nurse Maude - took nursing here in NZ out of the hospital on her bicycle
Diabetes nurses - educate about diet eg in fat communities
Psyc nurses - work on changing cultural beliefs that contribute to suicide and removing stigma so patients will not suffer sticks and stones atop illness which can exacerbate illness eg cause them not to take medicine, back to hosp!
Nurse prescribers - see selves as regaining the prescribing role Drs stole from them in Victorian era
Voluntary nurses abroad - may advocate to effect the politics making people starve or not get medicines if they are a prime cause of illness etc

As I hope you see to talk of nurses as mere wound dressers is very narrow - caregivers can do that, nurses are expected to have a lot more nous and ability to see what needs fixin' (in whatever area) to get the result.

Re 'cultural safety' comment - yes,its a trade off. But one needed less and less as those who wanted it (Maori) have taken over their own services now making all the focus on that in our training somewhat wasted - it was back then identified as transitional anyway. Despite how extreme it was the general principles have now beeen adopted by nursing education courses all over the world. The main promoter of it Irahapeti Ramsden died of cancer a lil while ago. Deano - tell your sociology lecturer to tell that to rellys of patients killed by culturally unsafe staff please - example; a very old gran in hospital stopped eating and talking (whakama state) which caused her death. It was eventually established that a full urine pottle had been placed momentarily on her food table. That happening and then not getting resolved properly is why she died. For an old traditional Maori this event was somewhat akin to rape.

Sorry, I'm not buying this, would like to discuss it further but it's way

fftopic:

**elle-f** · 3rd February 2007, 08:52

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Surely that's the issue, while the NZ flag does represent us all the Maori flag doesn't, its a flag of exclusivity, a sort of "up yours" that these people want to fly on a day that the rest of us are trying to celebrate nationhood/unity.

I dunno if I would say that the NZ flag represents us all. I wouldn't want my culture defined by a flag that really has zilch to do with a major part of my culture. By saying that all kiwi use the NZ BLUE UNION JACK flag - you assume that we all think its wonderful. I don't dislike that flag at all but the Maori flag is something that i believe in as well. It's interesting that Waitangi Day has become a NZ day which certainly stops the hoohaa that has happened in the past. I am all for that. We have been celebrating Waitangi Day as Aotearoa Day for about 10 years now and it's always been great. It's a pity that the media look out for the problem spots and sit there for the day and that's all they report.

**R1madness** · 3rd February 2007, 08:57

Hmm. I dont know where to stand on this one. I am as white as they come. Scot/welsh decent i am told but i am a NEW ZEALANDER. i sign the census as that and any other official document.
My 2 step daughters are part maori (on their fathers side) and i fully respect their right to their own heratage. HOWEVER that includes their european side as well.
Its a sad day when we cant put our past greivances of 2 centurys ago behind us and try to coexist in harmony sharing this great land.
Happy Waitangi/NZ/Maori day whichever way you choose to celerbrate it. I will be celerbrating it by going for a ride.

**Macktheknife** · 3rd February 2007, 09:08

Originally Posted by Pixie

You do realise,don't you, that modern humans-Homo Sapiens,Sapeins- evolved only 100,000 years ago in southern Africa.Were these "Celts" the Neanderthal Ones?

Sorry 150,000 years would put it around the time of Kang and Kodos' NZ tour

Hey Pixie, no offence but I think maybe you should do some more research, Sapiens have been around for much longer than that and the 'stonebuilders' who inhabited NZ were here a long time before the Maori, much evidence exists to show they were a sizeable population spread around the country and were very skilled in surveying and building. They built canals and roads, houses and forts of stone with wooden defenses, there is evidence that the Pa is not a maori invention but something they took over from the previous inhabitants.
Have a look at some of this info for example.
http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en...cr%3DcountryNZ

**Disco Dan** · 3rd February 2007, 09:49

it winds me up something cronic when people in this country bleat on and on about how their great, great uncle twice removed once dated a half maori which lived next door.. so that makes them 'a maori' ..now gimme all my extra benifits.

Im English - and fricking darn proud of my country. I choose to live here because its clean and pretty safe.

For a nation to become an equal society we must all recognise each other as being 'equal' - ie THE SAME.. Human.

Alot of Maori people seem to think they are somehow superiour... which is very sad.

Dont get me started on the TOW, I just managed to offend half my university class with my opinions of that (well they did ask). Which by the way are based on facts that the university gave me - seems they dont like the truth.