Smacking kids?

[Damon]

Personally I don't think this law is gonna make a ounce of difference to the children its trying to protect.

Exactly, an abusive parent in an alcohol fuelled rage is not going to stop and think "hmmm this might get me in trouble" they've already gone past the "hmmm this may seriously injure my child" stage and it's all down hill from there

meanwhile some nice lady will get arrested in the middle of the supermarket for giving Timmy a smack on the bum or hand to stop him screaming

[James Deuce]

Hmmmm angry NZ male with a short temper. I wonder if this is the cause of your troublesome child?

I'm not a feminist nor am I a left winger. I just don't agree with smacking kids - full stop. While I am against any government playing god as is the case here perhaps this bill may cause parents ruling with an iron fist to think twice about how they discipline their children. Can't be that bad can it?

So you've categorised me as an angry child basher on the basis of some Internet posts?

Who said I had a troublesome child? I said I had a management plan.

Things that work with one child do not work with others. Children, despite what some childless experts would have us believe, do not arrive in this world without form or shape to their personality.

[MisterD]

I just don't agree with smacking kids - full stop. While I am against any government playing god as is the case here perhaps this bill may cause parents ruling with an iron fist to think twice about how they discipline their children. Can't be that bad can it?

Why remove from the toolbox of parenting something that has proved an efficient and efficacious method of discipline since the dawn of time?

As to your second point, the whole problem with this bill is that it will criminalise the parents who do actually think about disciplining their children and do bugger all about those who don't...

Personally, this will be a law that I hit the "Ignore" button on, I wouldn't dream of telling Bradford and her ilk that they must feed their kids meat regardless of their beliefs, becuase it's better for them, so I reject their attempt to interfere with how I bring up my kids.

[ManDownUnder]

hmmmm i dunno....
maybe a few hundred beers later

WHOAAAAA - that's a maybe????

[kro]

Hmmmm angry NZ male with a short temper. I wonder if this is the cause of your troublesome child?

I'm not a feminist nor am I a left winger. I just don't agree with smacking kids - full stop. While I am against any government playing god as is the case here perhaps this bill may cause parents ruling with an iron fist to think twice about how they discipline their children. Can't be that bad can it?

I cannot begin to explain how many boundaries you crossed with this post, but let me try get a few covered.

The smacking of a child has little if anything to do with being "angry" as a parent. I think it was extremely rude to make that comment. I was smacked as a child, and I was not a trouble child at all, and certainly not an angry man/dad.

Watching all our friends raise their kids, the non smackers ended up with angry, shitty, hellion children, every single time..... no exceptions. The "smackers" raised kids I would welcome in my own home.

The government is applying yet another band-aid to a social issue it refuses to address, and in the process, it is taking the last bastion of hope ( I firmly believe), for parents, who want to be able to raise respectful, obedient, well rounded children.

The generation of troubled teens we have today, are the result of 2 major demographics in this country... one of which is soft cock parents, who both worked non stop, and felt guilty about their kids in full time day care, and subsequently let their kids do anything, and have anything, and have little if any discipline, all out of sheer guilt.
The child has no boundaries, is easily bored, and angry. A great cocktail for a hormone ridden teen too I might add.

[The_Dover]

I say beat the little shits into submission.

Especially if they refuse to get you another lion red from the fridge in the garage.

[Grahameeboy]

I say beat the little shits into submission.

Especially if they refuse to get you another lion red from the fridge in the garage.

Geeze, didn't take you long as a Father did it??

[Finn]

I cannot begin to explain how many boundaries you crossed with this post, but let me try get a few covered.

The smacking of a child has little if anything to do with being "angry" as a parent. I think it was extremely rude to make that comment. I was smacked as a child, and I was not a trouble child at all, and certainly not an angry man/dad.

Watching all our friends raise their kids, the non smackers ended up with angry, shitty, hellion children, every single time..... no exceptions. The "smackers" raised kids I would welcome in my own home.

The government is applying yet another band-aid to a social issue it refuses to address, and in the process, it is taking the last bastion of hope ( I firmly believe), for parents, who want to be able to raise respectful, obedient, well rounded children.

The generation of troubled teens we have today, are the result of 2 major demographics in this country... one of which is soft cock parents, who both worked non stop, and felt guilty about their kids in full time day care, and subsequently let their kids do anything, and have anything, and have little if any discipline, all out of sheer guilt.
The child has no boundaries, is easily bored, and angry. A great cocktail for a hormone ridden teen too I might add.

I just don't agree with smacking and I certainly won't apologise for it. As for me being rude, I've been a member for 3 days and so far I've been called a slut, been invited to group sex, had a proposal from a 1080 inch dildo and been called a femanazi.

[kro]

No one was fishing for an apology, but rude is rude.

[Skyryder]

I find the pro 'smacking' arguments pretty baseless. Their number one arguement is that the state should have no say in how parents bring up their children. The state has every right to protect 'all' of it's citizens from anyone who is intent on inflicting pain on others for whatever reason.

The pro smacking lobby complain that their opponents refer to smacking as hitting. What they fail to realise is that smacking is hitting albeit in a very minor form.

They maintain that smacking is a form of discipline and punishment. I find this argument to be both cowardly, and lacking somewhat in integrity. The purpose of the 'smack' is to teach. It is used as a method to inform the child that a certain action or behavour will not be tolerated. The infliction of pain as a method of teaching and learning I personaly find abhorrent.

Good one Sue. Bout time some one in this country stood up in support of our children. No one else seems to care enough to.


Skyryder

[crack]

I just don't agree with smacking and I certainly won't apologise for it. As for me being rude, I've been a member for 3 days and so far I've been called a slut, been invited to group sex, had a proposal from a 1080 inch dildo and been called a femanazi.

Now then! a Slut I can deal with, I am not biased, group sex, I can deal with as long as I am invited, BUT I am lost with a 1080 inch Dildo,and what is a Femanazi, is it Italian for group Love sessions? or is it German and should it have died 62 years ago.

[crack]

A previous post, I was laughing at the Irony of history!

Here there has to be a certain Irony that the Guy who may potentially save the day is a so called Disgraced MP???

Now I just wonder if the Maori party have played both sides of the fence here?

IE: Come on Tito, come and work with us, stand as an independant? (he has)

Tito we are doing a deal for XXXXX with the Greens, in exchange for our vote for the anti smacking bill.

Look Tito,don't worry matey, if you table all these ammendments at the 11th hour, it will create a shitstorm with Aunty Helen and the Greens:

And we already have their assurances with our "FUTURE" XXXXXX bill.

I wonder what the Maori Party will propose??????.

If I was Aunty Helen I would be rather worried about now.

[SPman]

I say beat the little shits into submission.

Especially if they refuse to get you another lion red from the fridge in the garage.

[quote=GB[Geeze, didn't take you long as a Father did it??[/quote]

He's just stacking his case early - and more power to his elbow.........

[cowpoos]

I just don't agree with smacking and I certainly won't apologise for it. As for me being rude, I've been a member for 3 days and so far I've been called a slut, been invited to group sex, had a proposal from a 1080 inch dildo and been called a femanazi.

You don't have to agree with anyone on here ....and you certianly don't have to apologise to anyone on here ....[sounds a little bit like paliament]....and you certianly don't have to spell or punctuate properly [and a lot of people post with tounge in cheek]


Dispite the serious subject on debate this isn't a case of one side being wrong and the other being right....there are good points from both sides....and some interesting insights...

but like a few are saying on this thread...its been forced on a majority of people who don't agree with it...the bill has good merit and started off with good intent...the idea that this is going to stop child abuse though...which its original intent was...is crazy...child abusers will abuse their children no matter what laws there are.

there is a big difference between a pat on the bum [like I got when I was a weeee laddie..didn't hurt...ya just shit ya self and cryed because you got a fright!!] and a full on adult power wack!!!

There is no doubt that child abuse is a big problem in New Zealand [and around the world] but most people myself included can't see the point of this bill...it is NOT going to help the real problem...

Maybe we should be debating ideas that could help fix the real issuse??

[kro]

I find the pro 'smacking' arguments pretty baseless. Their number one arguement is that the state should have no say in how parents bring up their children. The state has every right to protect 'all' of it's citizens from anyone who is intent on inflicting pain on others for whatever reason.

Why is the state not protecting me from the children?. There are 9 yrs olds committing atrocites, 12 year old boys preying on our daughters, there are 14 year olds hurling lumps of freaking concrete through our windscreens for God's sake, and we are to protect the children.......... wrong answer pal. I have always fought against the idea that children are the centre of the famly. they are part of the family, not the centre. Too much damn time is taken up worrying about what the children need, and sweet fuck all is given to what the parents may need, in order to keep their family together, and happy.

The pro smacking lobby complain that their opponents refer to smacking as hitting. What they fail to realise is that smacking is hitting albeit in a very minor form.

I don't really care about the semantics, I will call smacking hitting if need be, but I will not change my stance on whether or not I should be allowed to use a corrective punishment, irrespective of what stigmatic word is placed on the action.

They maintain that smacking is a form of discipline and punishment. I find this argument to be both cowardly, and lacking somewhat in integrity. The purpose of the 'smack' is to teach. It is used as a method to inform the child that a certain action or behavour will not be tolerated. The infliction of pain as a method of teaching and learning I personaly find abhorrent.

Pardon me for caring, but my darling 8 year old daughter used to have a rather unhealthy fascination for 3 pin power sockets, and would make a bee line for them anytime she had a chance. We tried everything, but in the end, we had to smack her, in order to drive the point home. Problem solved in an instant.

If you find pain as a teaching method, "abhorrent" you live in a very idealistic world. As an 11yr old boy, I was being bullied mercillesly by one of the neighbourhood kids, and this went on for about 9 months, and we tried every damn thing we could with this kid, to make him stop. In the end, I got so fucked off, I took the matter in hand, and one day, as he was following me home, taunting me, he went too far, and ankle tapped me. I got up, turned round, and smacked him full on in the face, and decked him. The kid not only left me alone from that day on, but he stopped bullying full stop. He became a lot more involved in school in a positive way, and ended up playing beside me on the softball team.
In your world, that kid would be the same today, if not in jail, or dead.

Good one Sue. Bout time some one in this country stood up in support of our children. No one else seems to care enough to.

Thanks Sue, we took corporal punishment off our teachers, and further crippled the states ability to manage schools, and now we find it hard to get teachers. Now we are going to chop society off at the knees, and remove the parents right to discipline. Watch this space Sue, in 15 years, lets revisit this, and see how fucked up your bill really was.

We are legislating like mad to compensate for out of control kids in cars, tearing up our roads, and killing innocent fpeople/amilies, and you want to tell me that "smacking is abhorrent". The rights we gave these kids 20 years ago, when we decided corporal punishment was bad, is making it's presence known today. Thanks Sue, you're a real pal.