Accepting personal responsibility

[Roj]

On the road dude on the road!!

I would have to disagree even limiting it to the road.

My wife was knocked off her bike by an unlicensed driver in an unregistered car, you can always say "what if she did xyz differently" but the reality was that she wasn't speeding, had a good bike, rego & warrant, rides with the light on, wasn't speeding, had seen the car and slowed down even though she was on a straight road, when the other driver some how was unable to see the her and did a right turn directly in front of her, only metres away, she was unable to avoid the car.

[scumdog]

Just a thought here folks. I hear over and over again about cage drivers doing this and city councils doing that. Its a pretty common subject in here.
How about we actually think to ourselves "I ACCEPT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO ME"
Think it through folks

Farkoff!

This is the 21st century, NOBODY ever takes responsibility for anything that goes wrong in their lives anymore.

Even when they did it all by themselves.

[ManDownUnder]

Farkoff!

This is the 21st century, NOBODY ever takes responsibility for anything that goes wrong in their lives anymore.

Even when they did it all by themselves.

Thank God for Labour!

Re responsibility for safety on the road.... yeah not 100% possible, but pretty bloody close. It's evidenced by the more experienced having longer spells between bins. It's also those same people that don't have much to prove. Co-incidence?

Sure you're going to get something small and furry cross your path from time to time (eh Mack) and at that point you'll minimise your injuries if you've taken responsibility... safety gear, done your practice as cornering/braking etc.

Even just knowing your options, taking responsibility for learning what you can/should do when you see a rabbit about to go under the front wheel.

Brake?
Swerve?
Line it up, hit the gas?

I was lucky enough to have a word with a certain gent on here a while back. I understand a major reason he's involved in KB is because he's "giving something back"... seen enough people die on/near bikes, and he mentioned he's had enough - wants to do something to slow it down. He's taking responsibility for himself - and donning the mantle for others, or helping them don their own. That's the guy that started this thread.

I know I've seen enough m/c carnage to last me a lifetime, so has he, and if there's anything that can be done to get people through their most risky years of riding then that's what's going to happen.

Taking the piss is all fun and easy, it might even give you something laugh about from a hospital bed. Or it could be worth listening to what was actually said, and what was meant.

[Jimmy B]

I like Ixion's philosophy, not sure exactly how he would put it but it goes something like, whilst acknowledging the hazards of biking Ix’ absolutely refuses to bin and takes all practical precautions to make that a reality. I read this to say he takes responsibility for his own actions. Something I endeavour to emulate.

Good post Frosty

[The Stranger:Me]

I would have to disagree even limiting it to the road.

My wife was knocked off her bike by an unlicensed driver in an unregistered car, you can always say "what if she did xyz differently" but the reality was that she wasn't speeding, had a good bike, rego & warrant, rides with the light on, wasn't speeding, had seen the car and slowed down even though she was on a straight road, when the other driver some how was unable to see the her and did a right turn directly in front of her, only metres away, she was unable to avoid the car.

Ok, there are always going to be exceptions. Not saying this case is or is not, obviously I wasn't there.
At the end of the day, we are all human and we all make mistakes. Sometimes the mistake is like "whew that was close" and sometimes it may mean people will be attending your funeral.

But still what Frosty says is valid, it is an attitude. It is the way we should approach our riding (and life in general) if we continually try and palm off blame we don't take the next step of trying to avoid the problem becoming one.
If we blame the car for changing lanes without indicating we fail to take the step of staying the hell out of the way. If we accept that it is the red light runners fault that he ran the red then you fail to take the step of treating it like a stop sign and checking both ways before you proceed when it turns green.
The list goes on and on.

So blame others all you want, but if you dont start taking responsibility, you could well be doing your blaming from the grave.

But even though you may accept 100% responsibility for yourself there are no guarantees, as i say, we are all human, we all make mistakes and some of them will kill ya.

[Deano]

Sorry Frosty et al, but I agree with Affman.

[mstriumph]

................. but it doesn't mean I am going to worry about every cage within a 5m radius of my bike.................

i do

anything within quite a bit more of an envelope than 5 metres, too ..........
i'm not watching out for their benefit - i'm watching out for ME

if something happens to me on the road the first thing i always think is "what could i have done to avoid that?" .... it's not about apportioning blame, it's more about making it a learning experience


......... can't help but notice how defensive some here are though - you've obviously touched a nerve, Frosty [but then, that's wat this thread was about, wasn't it?]

[Jimmy B]

Sorry Frosty et al, but I agree with Affman.

I quite like this definition of responsibility in the context of this discussion:

"The moral and forward-looking sense of responsibility is the sense in which one is responsible for achieving (or maintaining) a good result in some matter. The idea is that one is entrusted with achieving or maintaining this outcome, and expected to both have relevant knowledge and skills, and to make a conscientious effort. However, despite one's best efforts, the result may not be achieved"

So maybe by taking responsibility for our own actions we would be better served to take responsibility for the actions of others as well. I think some of The Strangers points/examples are relevant here.

Edit - Just another thought; Responsibility is not the equivalent of accountablity - maybe think about that as well

[SlashWylde]

Sorry Frosty et al, but I agree with Affman.

...And by adopting that attitude you are placing some of the responsibility for your safety in someone elses hands. That's the crux of the matter.

It's an attitude one adopts to increase ones safety, not a 100% guarantee that you'll always be safe.

[aff-man]

...And by adopting that attitude you are placing some of the responsibility for your safety in someone elses hands. That's the crux of the matter.

It's an attitude one adopts to increase ones safety, not a 100% guarantee that you'll always be safe.

But the thing is with very few exeptions for almost anything you do you'll be putting some part of your safety in someone else's hands. Usually it's not as blatent as a tandum skydive or an amusement park ride, but on the road you are trusting that other road users are going to abide by a certian set of rules. If they don't you could get hurt.... Does that mean you stop riding?

In sport when people don't adhere to the rules someone gets hurt, so buy your guys resoning if i'm playing rugby and someone picks me up and dumps me on my head, it was my fault for not realising that they were not going to tackle me legitimantly and so I should accept resonsibility. Not bloody likely.

[surfer]

But the thing is with very few exeptions for almost anything you do you'll be putting some part of your safety in someone else's hands. Usually it's not as blatent as a tandum skydive or an amusement park ride, but on the road you are trusting that other road users are going to abide by a certian set of rules. If they don't you could get hurt.... Does that mean you stop riding?

In sport when people don't adhere to the rules someone gets hurt, so buy your guys resoning if i'm playing rugby and someone picks me up and dumps me on my head, it was my fault for not realising that they were not going to tackle me legitimantly and so I should accept resonsibility. Not bloody likely.

There is a case for taking responsibility for self however what seperates one side of the road from the other and oncoming vehicles is a thin white line. We are expected to trust other users not to cross it, like we are expected to trust other road users to obey the road rules. Sometimes though the road is made dangerous for all by stupid acts of others that are beyond your control.

Take responsibility for your actions but not everything is about you.

[DMNTD:Me]

In sport when people don't adhere to the rules someone gets hurt, so buy your guys resoning if i'm playing rugby and someone picks me up and dumps me on my head, it was my fault for not realising that they were not going to tackle me legitimantly and so I should accept resonsibility..

Sure but every tackle could potentially put you in a wheel chair for life therefore it's up to you to do your best to protect yourself when a "tackle" comes your way....sometimes there's nothing we can do but if we at least try the odds are reduced greatly.


IE....I "play" like everyone is trying to kill me

[Jimmy B]

In sport when people don't adhere to the rules someone gets hurt, so buy your guys resoning if i'm playing rugby and someone picks me up and dumps me on my head, it was my fault for not realising that they were not going to tackle me legitimantly and so I should accept resonsibility. Not bloody likely.

In this example your responsibility would be to play the game within the confines of the rules, every one on the paddock is responsible for not only their own safety but also the safety of those around them. By infringing against another player you may receive a level of retaliation, as you describe, such as a pile driver, in this instance you must accept some responsibility for that event however it does not make you accountable. So playing within the rules would likely lessen the chances of retaliation so its a sound strategy to follow. You take responsibility for that risk and act accordingly.

If it was an unprovoked incident then equally it does not make you responsible for the actions of another or accountable either, could make you dead though.

I get the original post and you differ, that’s fine, its all good that we are thinking about how it could ultimately impact on our riding strategies

[Macktheknife]

But the thing is with very few exeptions for almost anything you do you'll be putting some part of your safety in someone else's hands. Usually it's not as blatent as a tandum skydive or an amusement park ride, but on the road you are trusting that other road users are going to abide by a certian set of rules. If they don't you could get hurt.... Does that mean you stop riding?

In sport when people don't adhere to the rules someone gets hurt, so buy your guys resoning if i'm playing rugby and someone picks me up and dumps me on my head, it was my fault for not realising that they were not going to tackle me legitimantly and so I should accept resonsibility. Not bloody likely.

That is not what was said mate, I get where you are coming from but I really think you have missed the point of the original comments.
This is about riders understanding what they are doing that contributes to the incidents that occur, not about blame or fault.
In the example I mentioned earlier, the rider was completely unaware how his road positioning made the situation more likely to occur. This is a problem because when you know something is possible, and do nothing to avoid it, you are contributing to the situation in a negative and potentially dangerous way.
By contrast, if you know that where you are on the road makes it difficult for another driver to see you, it just makes sense to move to a more visible position.
If you know that a particular stretch of road is well known for diesel spills, should you blast down there safe in the belief that because it is illegal and stupid that it won't happen? Of course not.
Too often I hear riders try to ignore their own contributions to accidents, take the case of a young rider lane-splitting at 100ks, his explanation of the incident was that it was not his fault, followed by not entirely his fault, finally it became, I didn't know he was going to change lanes.
I have yet to hear the rider say, it was totally my own fault, I should not have been splitting at 100ks.
I do not believe that Frosty or anyone else is saying or intending that if bad shit happens it is totally your own fault. Only that we all need to do what we can to take care of ourselves, be aware of the dumbshits who surround us, and make allowances for stupid people, after all it is not news that cagers seldom look for us.
We all trust that others will obey the road rules, we also know that frequently they don't. Taking responsibility in this context means you know about it, you do the best you can to protect yourself from it, and you help others do the same.
I have one other comment, other road users trust that we also will be obeying the rules, how often does that trust get misplaced.

[mstriumph]

Sure but every tackle could potentially put you in a wheel chair for life therefore it's up to you to do your best to protect yourself when a "tackle" comes your way....sometimes there's nothing we can do but if we at least try the odds are reduced greatly.


IE....I "play" like everyone is trying to kill me

absolut! bling for that man!

....... i ride assertively .. but still like everyone is trying to kill me ...... hey- it works for me