FOR SALE - Drew and Alan's sidecar build

[scrivy]

so you've checked the rulebook and it's all kosha then?

WTF??? Its Jewish??

[Drew]

i'm not an ungineer but wouldn't those two nuts in the second pic be betterer with either split washers or lockwashers or nylocks????

been trying to get a look the last couple of days but been working...

With the washer side at the rod end, it can't pivot far enough for full movement. They tighten to either side of the same bit, they cannot come undone as they're essentially each others lock nut.

[jellywrestler]

With the washer side at the rod end, it can't pivot far enough for full movement. They tighten to either side of the same bit, they cannot come undone as they're essentially each others lock nut.

i mean the nuts on the alloy plate, partly obscured by the rods??

[Drew]

i mean the nuts on the alloy plate, partly obscured by the rods??

Oh right. Yeah, they need washers. Also need replaced with cap screws anyway.

[jellywrestler]

Oh right. Yeah, they need washers. Also need replaced with cap screws anyway.


you spelt nylocs wrong

[scrivy]

you spelt nylocs wrong

Ewe spelt nylocs incorrectly

[Kickaha]

Some photos of our balance bar. .
Pretty much identical to the way I did my 250 Superkart

[jellywrestler]

Ewe spelt nylocs incorrectly

Drews from the Hutt Valley Scrivy, and before that Gore, incorrectly has four syllables that's just too much for him to get. He does know the word Wrong, but seldom actually does that actually sink in either

[scrivy]

Pretty much identical to the way I did my 250 Superkart

You had a 250 superkart????:gob:
How did it carry your weight???? :bleh:

[scrivy]

Drews from the Hutt Valley Scrivy, and before that Gore, incorrectly has four syllables that's just too much for him to get. He does know the word Wrong, but seldom actually does that actually sink in either

You didn't take exception to the 'EWE'.....

You happy with that reference?
Is it just the norm?? Lol.

[Kickaha]

You had a 250 superkart????:gob:
How did it carry your weight???? :bleh:
Carried it well enough for 2NZ (fuck I get a lot of seconds:( no Scrivy not that kind of seconds,) and fast enough to go 10 sec a lap faster than you've ever gone around Ruapuna

I may have been about 10kg lighter at the time :whistle:, it was a pretty good time back then, sometimes I raced Karts, Buckets and Sidecars at the same meetings

[scrivy]

fast enough to go 10 sec a lap faster than you've ever gone around Ruapuna
Not bad when all the other karts were going 20 seconds a lap faster......:lol:


I may have been about 60kg lighter at the time :whistle:, it was a pretty good time back then, sometimes I raced Karts, Buckets and Sidecars at the same meetings

Only 60 kgs????
You raced sidecars???:gob: I thought you just did parade laps......:lol:

[Drew]

Well, an eventful and successful day today.

Took the chair up to our secret test location for some better testing and open her up a bit.

First impressions of carrying some pace... Holy SHIT does this thing boogie! Crickey but I do like these hyper bike motors! Turns pretty well, it's stable and predictable.

We ran it with no fairing so it would have been a bit light in the front, but it's hard to get the thing to keep turning right out of a turn, when you wanna get the throttle open hard. Leanne's chair was the same, but I don't recall having the problem on the Windle. Ride height is a touch high at the front, so once that's sussed I hope it improves things. Softer front end will help too.

Great result all things considered, and plenty of helpful info for us to improve things and be more ready come race day!

[Kickaha]

, but it's hard to get the thing to keep turning right out of a turn, when you wanna get the throttle open hard.
Toss it in harder and get your swinger further forward, you should be able to light up the back and steer it on the throttle

[Drew]

Toss it in harder and get your swinger further forward, you should be able to light up the back and steer it on the throttle

That works for the slower turns, but when we're carrying a bit more speed through a turn and coming onto a straight it's a bit harder.

I know it's one of the challenges of riding a chair, I just thought someone might know of some tricks.

Al is also used to a much larger deck area. He was saying that on the small test track it was all he could do to hang on in places.

[scrivy]

That works for the slower turns, but when we're carrying a bit more speed through a turn and coming onto a straight it's a bit harder.
I know it's one of the challenges of riding a chair, I just thought someone might know of some tricks.


Thats exactly why I have to square the corners off on my pig. It simply wont turn under acceleration. You either have to quickly shut off the throttle for a millisecond, and it helps bring the rear around, and enables you to turn the front, or, you have to try more throttle - good luck getting that one right.......
If ya look at my on board footage from HD at the BSTT, you'll see it's turned hard to the right, but it's going straight to the outside of the corner.....

Oh yeah, when I raced without a fairing, it made no noticeable difference to the down force.

How far forward was Al around rights?

[Drew]

Pretty much half way up my back. He can't stay that far forward under full throttle though, thing goes pretty well.

[Kickaha]

He can't stay that far forward under full throttle though.
Not even if he's giving you a reach around?


edit: actually now I think about it there's probably nothing for him to hold onto

[Drew]

Not even if he's giving you a reach around?

Hand hold is too small.

[Deano]

Hand hold is too small.

Jody doesn't seem to mind !

[scrivy]

Jody doesn't seem to mind !

BUT........... does she know any better???

[Weaver]

I made a new rear brake lever today. Twelve mill alloy plate with a couple of bearings to run on. The old one was all kinds of shit.

[scrivy]

I made a new rear brake lever today. Twelve mill alloy plate with a couple of bearings to run on. The old one was all kinds of shit.

Can ya take a pic of the right hand side so we can see the whole brake system in one shot?

[Weaver]

I'll take one once the new lever is mounted up. It'll probably be mounted up higher and further forward of the current. Drew hardly has dancers legs.

[Drew]

I made a new rear brake lever today. Twelve mill alloy plate with a couple of bearings to run on. The old one was all kinds of shit.

That looks great bro. Your tig welding skills are better than the dude who did the head stock.

[Drew]

More progress today. Finished up the brakes with new lever and bolted it all up properly. Much more direct action now, and the lever mounted on bearings instead of twisting on it's pivot.

We need a better filler for the cooling system still. Takes ages to bleed the air out of the system now.

[Kickaha]

We need a better filler for the cooling system still. Takes ages to bleed the air out of the system now.
Did you make sure the filler is the highest point of the system?

[Drew]

Yeah, but only just. Hence the need to sort it.

[scrivy]

Did you make sure the filler is the highest point of the system?

No, he pivoted the brake pedal on it.......:brick:
I mean FFS..... Drews simple, but not retarded.......

Well,......... that's what I was told anyway..........................:pinch:

[scrivy]

Hey Drewpy, Glenn Murray reckons your chair was built by Owen Jessop and Brian Beech circa early '90s

[scrivy]

Yeah, but only just. Hence the need to sort it.

A bit of water hose and a few hose clips........;)

[Kickaha]

I mean FFS..... Drews simple, but not retarded.......

Well,......... that's what I was told anyway..........................:pinch:
You were told wrong

[Drew]

Hey Drewpy, Glenn Murray reckons your chair was built by Owen Jessop and Brian Beech circa early '90s

Cheers for that.

Mounting the filler higher isn't overly easy is the only problem. I'll look into it next week if Al doesn't beat me to it.

There's bugger all left to do for tech inspection now.

[Drew]

You were told wrong

I thought it was common knowledge that I'm retarded. Wonder who's spreading these nasty rumors about me.

[scrivy]

There's bugger all left to do for tech inspection now.

:clap::headbang::2thumbsup:yes::woohoo:

[nodrog]

Toyota townace has the filler neck for the job.

[Drew]

Toyota townace has the filler neck for the job.

We've got an in line filler thing with a long neck. Just need to look into where it can go to get more height.

[Weaver]

Can ya take a pic of the right hand side so we can see the whole brake system in one shot?


Taken this afternoon. I still need to make a new clevis for the brake lever and shorten the length of the peg down.

[nodrog]

We've got an in line filler thing with a long neck. Just need to look into where it can go to get more height.

I would.post picture of my setup but i cant post pics for some strange reason. Its so simple you will shit yourself. The filler neck is welded to the lefthand side of the water rail on the rear of the block, and comes out flush with the top of the rocker cover next to the carb.

[scrivy]

Taken this afternoon. I still need to make a new clevis for the brake lever and shorten the length of the peg down.

Sweet! Thanks for that.

[Weaver]

And I've just remembered we need to make a pedal return stop too.

[jellywrestler]

And I've just remembered we need to make a pedal return stop too.

and once you've sorted out the adjustment on the brake pedal you'll have to weld that together I'm picking

[Fast Eddie]

Trippy, Is the pedal mounted to the swing arm.. will that not feel wierd or change the feel of the brakes as the swingarm moves up and down? not that it moves massive amounts on a track but would still move a fair bit.

[scrivy]

Taken this afternoon. I still need to make a new clevis for the brake lever and shorten the length of the peg down.

I hope that torque arm is strong enough..............:wacko:

[Drew]

and once you've sorted out the adjustment on the brake pedal you'll have to weld that together I'm picking

Not planning on it. With a lack nut on the back it can overcome off by itself, and we want it adjustable.

[Deano]

Not planning on it. With a lack nut on the back it can overcome off by itself, and we want it adjustable.

Whats a lack nut and how does it overcome itself ?:lol:

[jellywrestler]

Not planning on it. With a lack nut on the back it can overcome off by itself, and we want it adjustable.

maybe but with all the drama on brakes at the moment do you think that it'll pass?

[Drew]

maybe but with all the drama on brakes at the moment do you think that it'll pass?

I expect it to pass. What is difference between that and the adjustment on the linkage rods, or bias bar?

[nodrog]

you better weld your wheel nuts on as well Drew, and your caliper bolts. and your brake pads. :eek5:

[jellywrestler]

I expect it to pass. What is difference between that and the adjustment on the linkage rods, or bias bar?

i spent some time talking to Neville Mickleson a couple of weeks ago and while there are supposed to be two separate systems the pedal in most cases is common. We discussed making that pedal bulletproof so there's NO chance of any sort of failure., there's a small potential there
i'm not trying to pick holes in ya bike for the sake of it, just looking through a different set of eyes.

[nodrog]

they have just invented this stuff called nighlock nuts and looktight or some shit, sounds like it could be useful somewhere.

[Deano]

they have just invented this stuff called nighlock nuts and looktight or some shit, sounds like it could be useful somewhere.

Nylock and Lock tight perhaps? ;)

[Weaver]

they have just invented this stuff called nighlock nuts and looktight or some shit, sounds like it could be useful somewhere.

Spring washer for the win.

[nodrog]

Nylock and Lock tight perhaps? ;)

yeah thats it. Sorry, they are relativly new products and I am not quite up to speed with the correct terminology yet.


Spring washer for the win.

1939 just called, they want their invention back.

[jellywrestler]

Nylock and Lock tight perhaps? ;)

try Nyloc and Loctite...
you on the suds already deano?

[Deano]

try Nyloc and Loctite...
you on the suds already deano?

:brick: Beer # 4.

No racing tomorrow though so its all good.

I could argue that I was using generic terms and not trade names........but its still a fail. :wacko:

[Drew]

i spent some time talking to Neville Mickleson a couple of weeks ago and while there are supposed to be two separate systems the pedal in most cases is common. We discussed making that pedal bulletproof so there's NO chance of any sort of failure., there's a small potential there
i'm not trying to pick holes in ya bike for the sake of it, just looking through a different set of eyes.

Our pedal works both masters, and a lever on the bar operates just a front brake.

I still see a dozen other things failing before our adjustable peg.

[Deano]

Our pedal works both masters, and a lever on the bar operates just a front brake.

I still see a dozen other things failing before our adjustable peg.

Like rider fitness ? :Pokey:

Had to say something nasty cause you've ignored all my other comments

[Weaver]

1939 just called, they want their invention back.


Doing it like my Grandaddy did.

[Deano]

Doing it like my Grandaddy did.

Is that Grandaddy Dukie ?

[Drew]

try Nyloc and Loctite...
you on the suds already deano?If he's posting on KB, he's drunk.


Like rider fitness ? :Pokey:

Had to say something nasty cause you've ignored all my other comments


Jump in the singers spot. We'll see who gets too tired and taps out.

[nodrog]

.....Jump in the singers spot.....

WTF? I thought you were building a sidecar, not a float for the Hero parade.

[Drew]

WTF? I thought you were building a sidecar, not a float for the Hero parade.

Both actually.

[Deano]

Jump in the singers spot. We'll see who gets too tired and taps out.

Easy for you sitting on your arse ! Alan is probably stronger where it counts for swinging, but in terms of fitness, it was him who called time on Wednesday night after a few rounds :2thumbsup

[jellywrestler]

I still see a dozen other things failing before our adjustable peg. best get em fixed then and let me know when ya working on it next too please

[Drew]

best get em fixed then and let me know when ya working on it next too please

Thursday arvo is a safe bet.

[scrivy]

Thursday arvo is a safe bet.

All go now??

What's left to do??

[Drew]

All go now??

What's left to do??

Re spring and valve the front shock. Radiator hoses....Go racing.

[scrivy]

Bump....

You dead bro??

[Drew]

Bump....

You dead bro??

I was just coming here to post.

The chair is inspection ready!

[Drew]

We're pretty chuffed with ourselves. There's been a Shit load of work, and looking over the bike yesterday there isn't a single moving part of the rolling frame that we didn't replace, or recondition.

Once we shell out for a huge chunk of ally, the rear hub is the last thing to do. Wheels assembly at the back weighs a whopping 33kilos. We can get that to twenty at the most.

[swarfie]

We're pretty chuffed with ourselves. There's been a Shit load of work, and looking over the bike yesterday there isn't a single moving part of the rolling frame that we didn't replace, or recondition.

Once we shell out for a huge chunk of ally, the rear hub is the last thing to do. Wheels assembly at the back weighs a whopping 33kilos. We can get that to twenty at the most.

What size "chunk" of ali do you need?

[scrivy]

What size "chunk" of ali do you need?

90 Kgs of Ali G......

[Drew]

What size "chunk" of ali do you need?

100mm bar, about 300 long if we're to make the hub from one piece like we want.

[swarfie]

100mm bar, about 300 long if we're to make the hub from one piece like we want.

We have off-cuts at work, but sorry nothing that long. I could have "scored" a bit for you and given it to Jelly to bring back to Wellytown after the weekend but 300 long is a bit more than a "score" if you know what I mean :pinch:

[Drew]

We have off-cuts at work, but sorry nothing that long. I could have "scored" a bit for you and given it to Jelly to bring back to Wellytown after the weekend but 300 long is a bit more than a "score" if you know what I mean :pinch:

Cheers anyway mate.

It's a pain because only the sprocket mount stays anywhere near that big in diameter. The rest gets swept up from the lathe bed.

[nodrog]

I can get you a piece of UHMWPE.

[scrivy]

I can get you a piece of UHMWPE.

User
hardened
male
wanking
penile
extension??

[swarfie]

I can get you a piece of UHMWPE.
Recon that might be too hard for the job

[scrivy]

I can get you a piece of UHMWPE.

unused
hymen
might
warp
penis
extension.

[Mental Trousers]

I can get you a piece of UHMWPE.

ultra
hot
missus
with
pubic
epilator

[Madness]

Ultra
High
Molecular
Weight
Polynesian
Eedjit

[JayRacer37]

Nothing to do with it being twitchy, if it was too straight up and down it'd be all over the place even in a straight line


The front king pin was virtually absolutely straight up & down, meaning that the tyre was turning dead flat on the ground & it was running off the outside edge, the tyre wear confirms this too.


I thought Kai's also complained that his steering was heavy as fuck. Another symptom completely at odds to zero castor.


Nev was shitting himself about the twitchiness just riding it down his street, Kai just thinks thats normal.
The bike has a handling problem, the bike has no castor, simple.
Hey, what the fuck would I know. As you were.

Shameless dredge, finally read though this thread and got up to date.
When I rode it, It had very nervous handling (two hands only) up till abou 50km/h's and was OK from there. Seemed heavy but anything with a flat tyre would compared to a 600. Had right hand turn oversteer and was fine in lefts - once you lifed the chair wheel. Though my movable ballast was advantageously light so it didn't take much. Certainly turned better on the throttle but I had nil issue with understeer.

My biggest issue was brake bias - we screwed around for a number of sessions moving it to the front (from memory? Might have been back) but it made no real difference, to my feel anyway.


Fuck me! 120?????!! What a snore fest!!!!!

Put a late model 6 hundy in it and shave off 25 kgs!!

If it's making 120 on Harris's dyno, it would make 95 anywhere else...but wait till he fits the harris end can, fucks with the correction factor and gives you a graph making 140! :pinch:

Drew, its going to be at the hillclimb tomorrow yeah?

[Drew]

Drew, its going to be at the hillclimb tomorrow yeah?sure will bro.

[Drew]

So. We've raced it, and it far exceeded expectation!

Shit it's fast! Stable and predictable, does everything we could have hoped for...Including FUCKIN SICK SKIDS. Drifting at speeds I didn't think it would do was awesome.

Will do a race report some time this week.

[Fast Eddie]

chur! did you have an onboard camera?

looks like a cool run on old google maps.. maybe next year for us. If it doesn't clash with nats lol

[Ronin]

So. We've raced it, and it far exceeded expectation!

Shit it's fast! Stable and predictable, does everything we could have hoped for...Including FUCKIN SICK SKIDS. Drifting at speeds I didn't think it would do was awesome.

Will do a race report some time this week.


Still looks better with me on it.

[James Deuce]

Still looks better with me on it.
Yes it does, you sexy beast.

[Drew]

chur! did you have an onboard camera?

looks like a cool run on old google maps.. maybe next year for us. If it doesn't clash with nats lol

Yeah, we hope to do it next year if it doesn't clash too.

We've got footage from a helmet cam on Alan. Didn't record when we mounted it to the chair bugger it. So footage is only from Saturday before we changed the back tyre, (which was a FUCKIN epic ordeal), so no cool skids.

[Drew]

Yes it does, you sexy beast.

You rode past twice and didn't stop, we were all very hurt.

[James Deuce]

You rode past twice and didn't stop, we were all very hurt.
Lol. That would have been amazeballs. My bike is missing a fork leg and has done since last Tuesday.

[Drew]

Lol. That would have been amazeballs. My bike is missing a fork leg and has done since last Tuesday.

I thought I saw Simon's bike go by.

[James Deuce]

I thought I saw Simon's bike go by.

Simon's bike has been serviced and polished and returned to his Mum's garage. I have an XJR1300 now.

[Drew]

Race report.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/157606-Drew-and-Alan-s-Hillclimb-on-the-sidecar?p=1130521225#post1130521225

[Drew]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/trucks/freezer-chiller/auction-578918719.htm

We now have a truck to transport the outfit.

[Fast Eddie]

Had right hand turn oversteer and was fine in lefts - once you lifed the chair wheel. Though my movable ballast was advantageously light so it didn't take much. Certainly turned better on the throttle but I had nil issue with understeer.
yea, Never felt it nervous until recently where it snakes under brakes... I mainly have understeer on rights it tries to push the front rather than slide the rear when on the throttle. The engine might be properly tired by now after you and AJ been riding it lol. We had phil move further and further forward and that balanced it out a bit, where it becomes neutral. We will sus it. It has a new rear on and old front tyre so might not be helping. Lefts are ok usually. pretty neutral with throttle oversteer when the chairs up. The front tyre is pretty old by now and done a lot of racing.


My biggest issue was brake bias - we screwed around for a number of sessions moving it to the front (from memory? Might have been back) but it made no real difference, to my feel anyway.
I pulled the bias setup apart.. not sure how long its been like this but it was missing some crucial circlip action which held the pivot point in place and allowed the threaded bar to screw in and out of it. Without the circlips it doesn't work you can screw it one way or the other and the pivot point never changes. Might have sorted that now. As far as previous owners and mo have mentioned - I think this outfit prefers more to the rear. Will have a play with bias soon


If it's making 120 on Harris's dyno, it would make 95 anywhere else...but wait till he fits the harris end can, fucks with the correction factor and gives you a graph making 140! :pinch:
Lol.. no thanks..


http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/trucks/freezer-chiller/auction-578918719.htm

We now have a truck to transport the outfit.

should be able to keep it nice and cold at least

[Mental Trousers]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/trucks/freezer-chiller/auction-578918719.htm

We now have a truck to transport the outfit.

Can fit a lot of beer in there ....

[Kickaha]

Can fit a lot of beer in there ....

Should be able to fit a couple of outfits in there and get someone else to share the cost or travel

[wharfy]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/trucks/freezer-chiller/auction-578918719.htm

We now have a truck to transport the outfit.

Looks good :niceone:

[JayRacer37]

yea, Never felt it nervous until recently where it snakes under brakes...

Before or after you ploughed it into the wall at HD...??

[Fast Eddie]

Before or after you ploughed it into the wall at HD...??

snaking under brakes after hit wall at hampers..

noticed it at Wanganui Street race but ignored it and carried on assuming it was because of racing on public roads. But knew it was definitely different at Rnd1 NZ Nats at puna.. home track, knew how it should go and it was just so different. Felt really wierd.

Have done a lot of work on the chair since Nats but haven't taken it out since - hoping its better now.. if not will have to keep looking for damage or something off.

[Drew]

Time to dredge this thread up. We've started work on the chair again.

Yesterday I got the brake masters remounted on the left hand side. Ian wasn't happy with the brake set up as it was, because the push rod wasn't in a straight line which might have caused issues. So the push rod is now a pull rod to sort that out.

We battled with it to try and get enough lever travel, so that if one failed it would bottom out and the other would still work. But the Tiltons have 40mm of piston travel, even if we took the lever ratio down to 4 to one which is too wooden, that equates to just under 160mm of lever travel before the other master even thinks about coming on. (In real terms, it isn't that much because of the bias bar and lever points I know).

So I phoned Mr Staples and asked about putting a stopper on the masters. We discussed it at length, and it will work fine and be safe....But it's kinda moot as he pointed out, since we have the hand operated brake as a fail safe anyway. Meaning to comply with the rules he has set out, there isn't a requirement for the twin master system fail safes on our chair.

Sussed!

So it'll be brakes on the left, gears on the right now.

To the front end.

The single shock is getting the bums rush. I managed to score a pair of GSX1400 shocks for fuck all, and Robert Taylor says they're a decent quality unit. The single shock was cool, but even though we thought it was over engineered it turns out it was not. There were signs of things moving, that we didn't foresee.

The removable top plate on the forks is going, as are the tapered roller bearings. It's better practice to use those than deep groove ball bearings, but it too shows signs of moving in places we couldn't imagine. Seriously, the flex that goes on in the front end of a chair when it's on a track is fucken phenomenal! In the hole in our aluminium top plate for the steering stem, it looks like we tapped a thread into it.

[Grumph]

If you don't want to use taper rollers, think about an angular contact bearing for at least the bottom.

[scrivy]

To the front end.

There were signs of things moving, that we didn't foresee.

Seriously, the flex that goes on in the front end of a chair when it's on a track is fucken phenomenal!

Chur.... and you thought I rode 'loose' out of speed and effort...... in reality it was beacuse it's flexing like fuck!!!

[Drew]

Finished the brakes today. And started moving the knee cups.

[Kickaha]

And started moving the knee cups.
Where you moving them to? down further? padded seat to you big poof

[Mental Trousers]

Where you moving them to? down further? padded seat to you big poof

It's got flames though!!

[Drew]

Where you moving them to? down further? padded seat to you big poofWith moving the brakes to the left, they fouled the knee cup. That one's gone up 10mm, and the right one down 20mm to level them up.

Seat pad was on it when we got it, and saves me crushing my nuts. So it can stay.

[Kickaha]

and saves me crushing my nuts. So it can stay.
Not much danger of that happening they'd be kept in Jody's handbag anyway

[Drew]

Not much danger of that happening they'd be kept in Jody's handbag anyway

I get to borrow them to race.

[Drew]

Been busy these last few days, and progress continues.

This is the front end with one of it's conventional two shocks mounted. By Christ it takes forever to get everything parallel and even when you remove all the mounting points to be replaced!

You might notice that everything is quite industrial in size and strength. Honestly, we just don't want the friggin things bending and flexing anymore. So it's probably a good kilo heavier than the previous version. :(

[nodrog]

Been busy these last few days, and progress continues.

This is the front end with one of it's conventional two shocks mounted. By Christ it takes forever to get everything parallel and even when you remove all the mounting points to be replaced!

You might notice that everything is quite industrial in size and strength. Honestly, we just don't want the friggin things bending and flexing anymore. So it's probably a good kilo heavier than the previous version. :(

how does it work with the bolts in the slot?

[Drew]

how does it work with the bolts in the slot?

We're putting an adjuster on them, similar to chain adjusters on bikes.

[Kickaha]

We're putting an adjuster on them, similar to chain adjusters on bikes.

Late model stuff just has a rectangular plate you can change with different offsets in it to change the trail, rather than the chain adjuster your'e talking about why not a snail adjuster, be easier and faster to alter

[Drew]

Late model stuff just has a rectangular plate you can change with different offsets in it to change the trail, rather than the chain adjuster your'e talking about why not a snail adjuster, be easier and faster to alter

I want the huge range of adjustment at the moment, so we can dial it in and figure out the range actually required.

It's coming along, but I dunno if we'll be ready for Ian to do the inspection on Saturday.

I see a trip to Wanganui in our future.

[scrivy]

Late model stuff just has a rectangular plate you can change with different offsets in it to change the trail, rather than the chain adjuster your'e talking about why not a snail adjuster, be easier and faster to alter

Late model stuff.......... Pfffttt...... my Busa has that ..... it's 300 years old......

[old rig]

Late model stuff.......... Pfffttt...... my Busa has that ..... it's 300 years old......

i think it would be easier for drew to buy my sidecar as it's all there and well provein
nice strong front end and don't go over in the rain :lol:

[Drew]

So the front end just soaked up another day's free time. But it's complete now final.

[Drew]

Late model stuff.......... Pfffttt...... my Busa has that ..... it's 300 years old......

It also doesn't comply with the Sidecar rules anymore...on account of not meeting the minimum fucken width.

[Kickaha]

Late model stuff.......... Pfffttt...... my Busa has that ..... it's 300 years old......

Shows how much attention I pay to old shitters

[Drew]

Shows how much attention I pay to old shittersYou better be paying attention, when we come round to fucken lap you on them!

[nodrog]

You better be paying attention, when we come round to fucken lap you on them!

LOL, I smoked you on a 37hp BMW.

[Kickaha]

LOL, I smoked you on a 37hp BMW.

That's because you're a riding god though Gordie, Drew just wishes he was that good

[Drew]

LOL, I smoked you on a 37hp BMW.Smoked? You only made it one corner further than we did...and our chair still moved under it's own 'steam' (yes, that's a dig at the coal burning BMW) after the race was finished.

[nodrog]

Smoked? You only made it one corner further than we did...and our chair still moved under it's own 'steam' (yes, that's a dig at the coal burning BMW) after the race was finished.

A win is a win!

I think you may have altitude sickness from being way up there on the back of tow truck.

[Drew]

A win is a win!

I think you may have altitude sickness from being way up there on the back of tow truck.Up there, I was still going faster than you!

[Drew]

Bit of a fail today.

Remaking the brake lines, we discovered we really need to come of the master cylinders at 90° for the best results. So a banjo and bolt were the call. Sweet, lets go get some. NO. The Tilton masters do not accommodate any normal banjo/bolt sizes. We fucked around with a fucken moron at the best place to source them from, trying to come up with a system we could cobble together.

Finally we had exhausted his bulshit, and he asked his co worker. 2 minutes later, the bits were ordered and will be here in the morning.

Because the masters are stacked vertically, they lie on their sides. So to bleed them we need to be able to take them off their mounts, meaning flexible lines...Just incase you were wondering why we need banjo/bolts off the masters.

We are surprised this isn't allowed for in the Tilton system, and have to fuck around so much to sort it.

[scrivy]

bit of a fail today.

Remaking the brake lines, we discovered we really need to come of the master cylinders at 90° for the best results. So a banjo and bolt were the call. Sweet, lets go get some. No. The tilton masters do not accommodate any normal banjo/bolt sizes. We fucked around with a fucken moron at the best place to source them from, trying to come up with a system we could cobble together.

Finally we had exhausted his bulshit, and he asked his co worker. 2 minutes later, the bits were ordered and will be here in the morning.

Because the masters are stacked vertically, they lie on their sides. So to bleed them we need to be able to take them off their mounts, meaning flexible lines...just incase you were wondering why we need banjo/bolts off the masters.

We are surprised this isn't allowed for in the tilton system, and have to fuck around so much to sort it.

same......

[steveyb]

What a load of fookin' about.
What idiot rookie would try and build their own racebike?

Oh, wait..........

[scrivy]

What a load of fookin' about.
What idiot rookie would try and build their own racebike?

Oh, wait..........

Actually, Drew is spending alot of time in the garage lately..... I reckon the honeymoon is well and truely over.........

[nodrog]

Actually, Drew is spending alot of time in the garage lately..... I reckon the honeymoon is well and truely over.........

Has alan dumped him?

[Drew]

Got the brakes sussed finally.

[Drew]

What a load of fookin' about.
What idiot rookie would try and build their own racebike?

Oh, wait..........Seemed like a good idea at the time aye.


Actually, Drew is spending alot of time in the garage lately..... I reckon the honeymoon is well and truely over.........No no, Alan has been working in the garage too.


Has alan dumped him?He thought about swinging for you, but thinks he'd miss the excitement of going fast.

[Kornholio]

He thought about swinging for you, but thinks he'd miss the excitement of going fast.

Quite possibly burn of the year :Pokey:

[White trash]

Got the brakes sussed finally.

Nice. I see you've gone with the full pull through system........, how appropriate.

[Drew]

Nice. I see you've gone with the full pull through system........, how appropriate.Ian Staples wasn't impressed with the push action on the bias bar.

Since I like a good pull, we've accommodated.

[Drew]

Today's job. Finish making the loom Sidecar shaped.

All up the bloody thing owes more than twelve hours, for a poxy goddam 380grams!

But it's tidy now and just needs wrapped. Before shot is actually half way through the job.

[Drew]

More updates.

All the work I did on the loom, was put to the test on Thursday when we got to work to be ready for the test day at Manfield on Friday. FAIL!!!

No fuel pump priming, or suggesting it even wanted to. Nor any power to the injectors. OH FUCK. I've cocked something up in the shortening of the loom. I did the job one wire at a time very carefully to avoid just such an occurrence god damn it.

So after wasting the day trying to find the cause, I gave up and came home in a thoroughly foul mood. Alan took to the interweb and searched forums the world over. Luckily again, kit car owners like the 12 as a power plant, and it turns out that the little grey wire to the ignition switch which essentially just joins the main feed for everything else, is a signal wire for the ecu to measure a voltage drop. Try and hot wire a ZX12, and computer says NO. The section of wire it was spliced into was in the area to be removed. So thinking I was copying the last dude I just added it to the join where I wanted it. Alas, he had done it with a resistor I hadn't seen.

Anyhoo, we've got that sorted now thanks to Alan's god like problem solving skills.

Got the gear lever all set up on the right hand side today, and took it for a hoon around the block. Despite the brake lever needing adjustment, we seem to be ready for next weeks test day. We're gonna meet Ian Staples there and get our inspection done at the same time as having a bit of a play.

Love the bars being low and close to the wheel. Soooo much more feel, and it's easier to steer the thing. Seems counter intuitive that the wide bars would be harder work, might have something to do with having my arms straight ahead of me, instead of out the side.

Discussing with Al today, I'm tempted to arsehole the double master cylinder operated by the foot. Instead use the bar mounted master for the front, and the foot for chair and drive wheels. It makes sense, because the bias is always whatever I need rather than set for a whole session. Also means I can trail the rear brakes into tight right handers, without losing any steering feel.

Food for thought.

[Kickaha]

Discussing with Al today, I'm tempted to arsehole the double master cylinder operated by the foot. Instead use the bar mounted master for the front, and the foot for chair and drive wheels. It makes sense, because the bias is always whatever I need rather than set for a whole session. Also means I can trail the rear brakes into tight right handers, without losing any steering feel.

Food for thought.

If it made that much sense I reckon the guys that have been building them for decades would be doing it that way

In saying that the first sidecar I passengered was set up like that and with 320kg and a old lightly modded GSX1100 was good for 1.49 around Ruapuna, it just comes down to whatever works best for you

[Drew]

If it made that much sense I reckon the guys that have been building them for decades would be doing it that way

In saying that the first sidecar I passengered was set up like that and with 320kg and a old lightly modded GSX1100 was good for 1.49 around Ruapuna, it just comes down to whatever works best for youYeah. I might make a stopper for the front foot operated master. So at the track, I can bias it to the rear and hook the hand master up to the front caliper.

That way I can test it. The 19mm Brembo radial master should have no trouble with the big Willwood up front.

[Kickaha]

Yeah. I might make a stopper for the front foot operated master. So at the track, I can bias it to the rear and hook the hand master up to the front caliper.

That way I can test it. The 19mm Brembo radial master should have no trouble with the big Willwood up front.

I know Goober used the foot pedal (working all three)most of the time but occasionally he'd used the front in combo with it and he was extremely good under brakes

[Drew]

I know Goober used the foot pedal (working all three)most of the time but occasionally he'd used the front in combo with it and he was extremely good under brakesI thought about this too. Set the brakes up biased slightly rearward all the time, and regulate it with the hand operated front.

But taking that to it's logical conclusion, lets save a kilo or two. If it works for us to use hand and foot together, I can take off a caliper from the front and a master in the middle. Might even save the amount I had to add to rebuild the front end.

[Fast Eddie]

I know Goober used the foot pedal (working all three)most of the time but occasionally he'd used the front in combo with it and he was extremely good under brakes

Yea Alex recon'd he used the hand brake too on the agip bike.. it never worked properly while I had it.

Got pictures of your finished front end and loom etc, Drew? edit found em

[wharfy]

Today's job. Finish making the loom Sidecar shaped.

All up the bloody thing owes more than twelve hours, for a poxy goddam 380grams!

But it's tidy now and just needs wrapped. Before shot is actually half way through the job.

I see by the last photo there are some bits left over, that always happens when I work on a bike...

[Drew]

I see by the last photo there are some bits left over, that always happens when I work on a bike...One of them was important too. Bloody resistor where a wire branched off.

Took it to Manfield today. Was going pretty good in the first and only seesion we did. Tech inspection, and a complete brain fart got noticed on the drive wheel brake caliper. So back in the truck, and bring it home.

Only thing it failed on though, so it's pretty good news really.

[nodrog]

Tech inspection, and a complete brain fart got noticed on the drive wheel brake caliper.

pads in backwards? lockwired to valve stem?

[Drew]

pads in backwards? lockwired to valve stem?
Not that bad. Got a mate who put a set of pads in the wrong way round in a V3000 though.

We seem to have chucked a bolt through the new torque arm mount, which doubles as a caliper mount, just to hold it....Then forgot about it.

Essentially the caliper had a bit of 'float', and eventually things would have gone tits up...Scrivy style.

[Drew]

Ian is happy with the chair now. So we are tech inspected and approved.

Does that mean the chair is finished? Don't be fucken stupid!

Fairing work starts tomorrow morning, there's a shit ton of work to be done to the main bodywork....and lots of parts need to be taken off the chair to be painted while we wait for fiber glass and bog to dry.

Joy of fucken joys.

[Drew]

So the body work is underway. There's a shit ton of glass work to do, followed by more prep for paint.

Pushing the chair out of the garage to get the fairing in a clear space and then pushing it back in, I have discovered an issue.

Does anyone know why the brake torque arms on the front end of a good chair, mount to the fork leg instead of the swingarm? I do, and I need to make more changes to ours.

[nodrog]

So the body work is underway. There's a shit ton of glass work to do, followed by more prep for paint.

Pushing the chair out of the garage to get the fairing in a clear space and then pushing it back in, I have discovered an issue.

Does anyone know why the brake torque arms on the front end of a good chair, mount to the fork leg instead of the swingarm? I do, and I need to make more changes to ours.

You can just mount the caliper on the swingarm

[Kickaha]

Does anyone know why the brake torque arms on the front end of a good chair, mount to the fork leg instead of the swingarm? I do, and I need to make more changes to ours.

Antidive...

[pete376403]

If the caliper is fixed to the swingarm, or if the torque arm connects to the swingarm, braking will make the front of the bike rise , the swingarm attempts to rotate with the disk, and it will also bind up operation of the suspension. If the torque arm goes back to the fork tube, this wont happen. Exactly like floating brake operation on a rear swingarm

[Drew]

Yep. Seems to be common knowledge.

Tell ya what though. When you get a chair and you are doing shit loads of work on it already, it's not exactly like you go out looking for stuff like this.

To sum up, I need to float our caliper assembly.

[Drew]

We've had our first proper race meeting now. The Barry Sheene was fantastic! We learned a lot, and had a great time in such a large field.

There's work to be done though. The brakes were certainly a weak point. With the anti dive like set up on it, I am reluctant to brake into a turn at all. So everyone brakes later than us. The torque arm should allow a compliant front end under brakes, so it's an easy fix.

But we got a look at something we had considered a while back and dismissed. The Ozzy 1 short chair, is running a single sided swingarm straight off a VFR400. We've got one of them, or at least can get it from a mates shed. So that'll be in there before the Tri series starts too.

Our swingarm is too short at the moment, so trying to get tension on the chain perfect to avoid slip when the rear compresses is near impossible.

On a positive note. FUCK OUR CHAIR IS FAST! Absolute monster off the line and down the straights, and will be even better with the swingarm allowing us to drop twenty kilos from the 33Kg rear wheel on it now.

[scrivy]

We've had our first proper race meeting now. The Barry Sheene was fantastic! We learned a lot, and had a great time in such a large field.

There's work to be done though. The brakes were certainly a weak point. With the anti dive like set up on it, I am reluctant to brake into a turn at all. So everyone brakes later than us. The torque arm should allow a compliant front end under brakes, so it's an easy fix.

But we got a look at something we had considered a while back and dismissed. The Ozzy 1 short chair, is running a single sided swingarm straight off a VFR400. We've got one of them, or at least can get it from a mates shed. So that'll be in there before the Tri series starts too.

Our swingarm is too short at the moment, so trying to get tension on the chain perfect to avoid slip when the rear compresses is near impossible.

On a positive note. FUCK OUR CHAIR IS FAST! Absolute monster off the line and down the straights, and will be even better with the swingarm allowing us to drop twenty kilos from the 33Kg rear wheel on it now.

Good shit Drew, glad you had fun!!
As for the brakes..... bolt the caliper to the swingarm. Dont fuck around. I've seen a few torque arms fail now.........:shit: Name one bike that outbrakes mine (even in Aussie...). It's safer and less weight too!
As for the suspension........ mines got none! Hasn't stopped us cornering or braking any slower than others.
Don't spend your precious time refining stuff, get on it and learn it.
Then upgrade to a better rig!

[Drew]

Good shit Drew, glad you had fun!!
As for the brakes..... bolt the caliper to the swingarm. Dont fuck around. I've seen a few torque arms fail now.........:shit: Name one bike that outbrakes mine (even in Aussie...). It's safer and less weight too!
As for the suspension........ mines got none! Hasn't stopped us cornering or braking any slower than others.
Don't spend your precious time refining stuff, get on it and learn it.
Then upgrade to a better rig!The caliper is mounted to the swingarm. That shuddering under hard braking you and I get, I think is caused by the shocks topping out and the tyre skipping.

I get what you're saying bro, and I sure can't remember you coming second in a battle of brakes. But I think that comes down to you just being really fucken good, and an animal to boot.

Oh yeah. Our idea of a torque arm, consists of one solid piece of 25x10 steel flat bar and a hole at each end. Many many things will let go and us be dead, before it ever gives us issue I should think.

All this time improving it, is not in vane. The chair will be a very good package when it comes time to sell in a year or so. It's not gonna be an $11K Windle of course, but it'll be good for who ever buys it and we'll do better for the work.

On a more positive note. The motor has certainly been tested fully, and we are confident that the oil feed and return systems are doing the proper job. So the pressure gauge that popped at Hampton last weekend wont be replaced, and we'll just stick with the over size warning light. (Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't chasing me)!

[Edbear]

I can vouch for the speed off the line, how many did you pass before turn 1? It was like some giant had booted you up the backside! I hope you get the braking and turning sorted soon. You need Popeye's forearms as it stands.

[scrivy]

You need Popeye's forearms as it stands.

Mines harder to steer than Drews.
All those years of spanking me monkey worked wonders..... :laugh:

[Drew]

I hope you get the braking and turning sorted soon. You need Popeye's forearms as it stands.


Mines harder to steer than Drews.
All those years of spanking me monkey worked wonders..... :laugh:
It turns in fine, it's holding a constant radius that things get hard.

Got it as steep as I can with the adjustable trail, things pretty wobbly till we generate some temp in the front hoop...Which if anyone gives it some thought, they'll realise how fucken dodgy that pitlane start first lap felt.

My fitness let us down more than the chair did, by a substantial margin. But that is getting work, along with the chair in the coming weeks.

[Drew]

Well, there's more work to do after the pile up at the weekend been.

Body work is at the shop being fixed, to give us some breathing room to fix the other things. List isn't too bad.

Throttle cables, handle bars, right knee cup support, muffler, and some fairing mounts.

By Christ I'm glad we're starting out on an old steel outfit! I imagine something like the Windle would be completely fucked after two flips like we've had.

Al got a couple pics of the fucked chair wheel cover, dunno if he took any others though.

[Edbear]

Aye for sure, the chassis looked straight as a die.

How're you getting on with the brakes now? They seemed to work quite well in the video...

[Drew]

Brakes are great now. Torque arm sussed the chatter out and we can brake into a turn much further.

[Edbear]

Brakes are great now. Torque arm sussed the chatter out and we can brake into a turn much further.

Cool! The further you go, the further you get! :2thumbsup

[koba]

the pile up at the weekend been.


Any video floating about?

[Deano]

Any video floating about?
Facebook...oh thats right. You tube !

[Drew]

Any video floating about?http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/151328-Sidecar-Racing/page249

There's a couple vids embedded on there.

[nodrog]

Brakes are great now. Torque arm sussed the chatter out and we can brake into a turn much further.

Maybe you will get to try them past turn one this weekend :love:

[Drew]

Maybe you will get to try them past turn one this weekend :love:We can but hope.

[Drew]

Excellent progress last night.

Al has been working tirelessly on the thing every waking moment, but last night we both got stuck in. The new bars are mounted, and look like they came off a Harley fat boy. Throttle cables and new twist grip got fitted up by genuine good bastard Bryce from buckets and bits. Pete wired it up so we could do away with having two switch blocks, since the new twist grip already had one and a starter button.

While that was happening, I was remaking the clamp for the chain adjuster so we don't have to leave the line like old women without flicking the chain again. Al fixed the gear selector linkages and stuff, at the same time as mounting the sort of repaired chair wheel cover, amongst other things.

There's not a heap left to do today before we head to the track tonight.

[nzspokes]

Pic looks like you had Bata Bullets on in your crash. Max style points there.....

[Edbear]

Excellent progress last night.

Al has been working tirelessly on the thing every waking moment, but last night we both got stuck in. The new bars are mounted, and look like they came off a Harley fat boy. Throttle cables and new twist grip got fitted up by genuine good bastard Bryce from buckets and bits. Pete wired it up so we could do away with having two switch blocks, since the new twist grip already had one and a starter button.

While that was happening, I was remaking the clamp for the chain adjuster so we don't have to leave the line like old women without flicking the chain again. Al fixed the gear selector linkages and stuff, at the same time as mounting the sort of repaired chair wheel cover, amongst other things.

There's not a heap left to do today before we head to the track tonight.

Good stuff! If you are able to get back on track with significant improvements it is a great outcome! Hope the wrist and hand are also improved?

[Drew]

It's ALIVE again. Al has been spending every waking moment working on the old girl, champ that he is.

Be rocking it street fighter styles this round, no time to fit the front fairings with the revised bars...or any idea if the revision is a step in the right direction for that matter.

Panic moment when we went to start it tonight for the first time. Spinning the starter motor backwards as the chair rolled back after Burt got us, caused the insides of the starter to go Chernobyl. But Gixxer to the rescue, and an old 1100 one fits. Massive thanks to Bryce at 'Buckets 'n' bits' for hooking us up. Legend that man!

See those of you coming this weekend, at Manfeild for round two of the Suzuki series.

[Weaver]

Massive thanks to Bryce at 'Buckets 'n' bits' for hooking us up. Legend that man!


Yes Bryce is a star. Here's the link to his TradeMe business page. Have a look at his parts.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/314484947

[nzspokes]

Yes Bryce is a star. Here's the link to his TradeMe business page. Have a look at his parts.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/314484947

Oh he may bits for me Hornet. I wants bits to drill holes in and paint. Cheers.

[Kornholio]

It's ALIVE again. Al has been spending every waking moment working on the old girl, champ that he is.

Be rocking it street fighter styles this round, no time to fit the front fairings with the revised bars...or any idea if the revision is a step in the right direction for that matter.

Panic moment when we went to start it tonight for the first time. Spinning the starter motor backwards as the chair rolled back after Burt got us, caused the insides of the starter to go Chernobyl. But Gixxer to the rescue, and an old 1100 one fits. Massive thanks to Bryce at 'Buckets 'n' bits' for hooking us up. Legend that man!

See those of you coming this weekend, at Manfeild for round two of the Suzuki series.

Giddy up... and give it shit :)

[Drew]

Another failure this weekend. Motor seems to have cooked and seized. Starts again now, but it needs to be pulled down to check the damage and the root cause determined.

Was going fucken good though. We qualified badly, but got up it proper in the first race.

[Kornholio]

Another failure this weekend. Motor seems to have cooked and seized. Starts again now, but it needs to be pulled down to check the damage and the root cause determined.

Was going fucken good though. We qualified badly, but got up it proper in the first race.

Now that is shit :/ On ya's for getting there in the first place

[Edbear]

Suckymotor! Not good. Musta not liked flipping head over heels! Ah the joys of racing, eh? :bye:

[scrivy]

Another failure this weekend. Motor seems to have cooked and seized. Starts again now, but it needs to be pulled down to check the damage and the root cause determined.


The cause is determined - its rooted....... :facepalm::shutup:

It was going good though before it slowed....... but hmmmmmm...... it went again in the pits????
I reckon........ its just that the rider is unfit and had a wee nana nap..... :yes:;):drinkup:

[Drew]

The cause is determined - its rooted....... :facepalm::shutup:

It was going good though before it slowed....... but hmmmmmm...... it went again in the pits????
I reckon........ its just that the rider is unfit and had a wee nana nap..... :yes:;):drinkup:

I wish it was just me being a tired cunt. Have a definite on it tonight, but it's unlikely to be good news.

[swarfie]

I wish it was just me being a tired cunt. Have a definite on it tonight, but it's unlikely to be good news.

Sorry bro...Smelled rooted to me :doh:

[scrivy]

Sorry bro...Smelled rooted to me :doh:

You been panty sniffing again Swarfie????

[swarfie]

You been panty licking again Swarfie????

Fixed that for ya :2thumbsup

[Drew]

Ran a big end bearing. Cause is pictured here, someone would prolly need to know their Kawasaki motors pretty well to pick it.

Replacement motor will be ordered tomorrow, hopefully get it by the weekend. See you lot at Wanganui.

[Grumph]

Ran a big end bearing. Cause is pictured here, someone would prolly need to know their Kawasaki motors pretty well to pick it.

Replacement motor will be ordered tomorrow, hopefully get it by the weekend. See you lot at Wanganui.

I'll bite....relief valve fell out ? Or were you using it to hold a baffle ?

[Drew]

I'll bite....relief valve fell out ? Or were you using it to hold a baffle ?Well done that man! Relief valve wound out.

I think if I hadn't done it up at all, it would have caused issue before now. No way to tell of course. All that shit was in and out all the time when we made the sump baffle, so it may just have been a brain fart.

But new motor is about to get ordered, so we'll be at Wanganui looking to get some redemption for the last couple of outings.

We'll look at bringing in a replacement crank for this motor in the off season, so we can be all brofessional like the long bike teams and have a spare motor in the truck for just such an occasion...or wangle Pate's outfit out of him cheep and carry a whole spare chair!

[Drew]

We found another wee nasty in there that has us scratching our heads. I've been torn as to make it public, but I'm more careful than would be required in this instance.

The motor came with the rocker cover undone and a couple covers loose, when we picked the chair up. We gave it a thorough clean out and inspection as is best practice before assembly. However looking into the gearbox as the motor lay on the bench last night, an oddity presented itself between the shafts. A fucking M6 bolt has been sitting in there and getting a free ride all this time!

I never put things down on an open motor, small dark bolts in particular, but this little bastard found it's way in there and has been very close to causing catastrophe by the looks of the damage to it.

[jellywrestler]

We found another wee nasty in there that has us scratching our heads. I've been torn as to make it public, but I'm more careful than would be required in this instance.

The motor came with the rocker cover undone and a couple covers loose, when we picked the chair up. We gave it a thorough clean out and inspection as is best practice before assembly. However looking into the gearbox as the motor lay on the bench last night, an oddity presented itself between the shafts. A fucking M6 bolt has been sitting in there and getting a free ride all this time!

I never put things down on an open motor, small dark bolts in particular, but this little bastard found it's way in there and has been very close to causing catastrophe by the looks of the damage to it.

i can remember a rider on a FZR1000 at levels pulling their motor apart and finding 10mm spanner in the gearbox!

[Edbear]

We found another wee nasty in there that has us scratching our heads. I've been torn as to make it public, but I'm more careful than would be required in this instance.

The motor came with the rocker cover undone and a couple covers loose, when we picked the chair up. We gave it a thorough clean out and inspection as is best practice before assembly. However looking into the gearbox as the motor lay on the bench last night, an oddity presented itself between the shafts. A fucking M6 bolt has been sitting in there and getting a free ride all this time!

I never put things down on an open motor, small dark bolts in particular, but this little bastard found it's way in there and has been very close to causing catastrophe by the looks of the damage to it.


i can remember a rider on a FZR1000 at levels pulling their motor apart and finding 10mm spanner in the gearbox!

Happens in surgery too. Well, maybe not bolts and spanners, but... :Oops:

[Grumph]

Ah, relief valves....back when we were seeing a lot of older jap imports, the Kawa fours i saw I always made a point of stripping and checking the valve. This was after one of the first i did always had lower oil pressure than it should - and the pressure would drop dramatically at random too. Turned out that the ball in the valve had a chunk corroded off one side...Kawas for some reason seem more prone to corrosion damage in the valve than anything else.

Crap in motors - i built a speedway chair motor for a guy, handed it over and got a call a day later....his 5 year old son had dumped handfuls of sand in the oil filler....luckily he hadn't fired it but it was a quick complete strip and rebuild.

When or if you get a crank for the motor, budget for a complete set of shells too - go straight to the thinnest shell available, can't remember the colour code but the 2/10 of a thou extra clearance won't hurt...

[old rig]

Ran a big end bearing. Cause is pictured here, someone would prolly need to know their Kawasaki motors pretty well to pick it.

Replacement motor will be ordered tomorrow, hopefully get it by the weekend. See you lot at Wanganui.

i did tell ya didn't i
:crazy:
been there
don't you have a filter on the oil pick up

[scrivy]

Ran a big end bearing. Cause is pictured here, someone would prolly need to know their Kawasaki motors pretty well to pick it.


I'm not mechanically minded, but was it beacuse it didn't have a sump on it??? :whistle::eek5:

[old rig]

I'm not mechanically minded, but was it beacuse it didn't have a sump on it??? :whistle::eek5:

i recon you have had your nose in a few big ends:laugh::laugh::laugh::bleh:

[scrivy]

i recon you have had your nose in a few big ends:laugh::laugh::laugh::bleh:

It was Nev that said it smelt rooted.... not me..... I can see why it had no oil in it - no sump!! Easy peasy!!

Next hard question......:pinch:

[old rig]

It was Nev that said it smelt rooted.... not me..... I can see why it had no oil in it - no sump!! Easy peasy!!

Next hard question......:pinch:

sorry spelling bad was meant to be BELL ENDS:eek5:

[scrivy]

sorry spelling bad was meant to be BELL ENDS:eek5:

Confucious says "Rather have nose in bell ends, than in ball ends..." :rolleyes:

[racer40]

Sorry Drew to hear the news on your motor mate , but we dont want people buying sidecars just for a spare one, we need new people to get it if Pate doesnt do something with it for next season. I understand Pirate maybe selling 1 of his sometime so that would be good

[Drew]

New motor is crated and on it's way. Should have it running Thursday night.

[roogazza]

New motor is crated and on it's way. Should have it running Thursday night.
Wang gar nui.
Do ya think you can keep the wheels on the ground and the motor running so we can get see this chair ?
By the time I got on ctas in the weekend it was AWOL ! (again).

[Drew]

Wang gar nui.
Do ya think you can keep the wheels on the ground and the motor running so we can get see this chair ?
By the time I got on ctas in the weekend it was AWOL ! (again).We'll do our best mate. Things are getting sorted.

It is the first season of the outfit, we just weren't expecting quite as serious teething problems.

[roogazza]

We'll do our best mate. Things are getting sorted.

It is the first season of the outfit, we just weren't expecting quite as serious teething problems.
Take it slow ! If that's possible...and good luck Boxing Day.

ps I mean approach everything (eg prep) a bit slower. I'm guessing you hit everything flat out ? lol.

[Drew]

Take it slow ! If that's possible...Ummm, isn't that kinda the opposite of the point. Made worse by the fact that we managed to actually get along pretty quick at the weekend before it blew up.

and good luck Boxing Day.Cheers man, I can't wait:wings:

[scrivy]

It is the first season of the outfit, we just weren't expecting quite as serious teething problems.

Teething problems??? Seriously??? More like bowel problems....... :killingme:clap::rolleyes:

GOOD LUCK WITH WANGAS!!!!

Watch out for those lurking containers....... those fuckers bite hard.... :baby:

...and ruin sidecars.....:weep::weep:

[scrivy]

Got the new engine running in it yet?

[Drew]

Got the new engine running in it yet?Got the sump on and a couple other things done. Just need to drop it in and fire it up.

[scrivy]

Got the sump on and a couple other things done. Just need to drop it in and fire it up.

No spare bolts this time?? :rolleyes:

[nodrog]

Got the sump on and a couple other things done. Just need to drop it in and fire it up.

I think Alan has a drinking problem.

[Drew]

I think Alan has a drinking problem.

Na, it's all good.

[nodrog]

Na, it's all good.

the little buggar reckoned he still had a hangover at 3.34pm, I think santa needs to bring him some HTFU pills, and a fire extinguisher.

[Weaver]

Thankfully I had a fire extinguisher on hand.

[Str8 Jacket]

the little buggar reckoned he still had a hangover at 3.34pm

ha, he prob did. that's only 12 hours after I booted a few of them out. This morn there was an empty bottle of gay rum

[nodrog]

ha, he prob did. that's only 12 hours after I booted a few of them out. This morn there was an empty bottle of gay rum

I hope the little cunt didn't throw his boy on the roof again?

[nodrog]

I hope the little cunt didn't throw his boy on the roof again?

here he is camping

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8067/8202032798_c4084bc810.jpg

[Weaver]

here he is camping

I remember that trip fondly. A man in a Faulton Hogan truck tried to pick him during the night though offering him candy.

[scrivy]

WTF? Do i need wickered drugs to work out whats going on here? Got me fuked!

[jellywrestler]

no lust some good lube and spare weekend

[scrivy]

no lust some good lube and spare weekend

Got the lube, but no spare weekends......

[Shaun Harris]

Best wishes to get the rig finished boys

[Drew]

It lives again!!!!

Someone is going to have to explain the brand new bucket shim I found stuck to the crank angle pickup though.

[Deano]

I hope the little cunt didn't throw his boy on the roof again?

Ah so was it you that dented my gennie ?


It lives again!!!!

Someone is going to have to explain the brand new bucket shim I found stuck to the crank angle pickup though.

Spare parts ?

[Drew]

Ah so was it you that dented my gennie ?

Na, different retard all together.

[swarfie]

It lives again!!!!

Someone is going to have to explain the brand new bucket shim I found stuck to the crank angle pickup though.

You should go into business selling spare parts for Kwakas mate...you seem to have plenty of them :msn-wink::msn-wink:

[Drew]

You should go into business selling spare parts for Kwakas mate...you seem to have plenty of them :msn-wink::msn-wink:

I hope this motor runs alright. Seems that random bits floating through the engine are almost required.

[nodrog]

Ah so was it you that dented my gennie ?



Spare parts ?

What happened to your gennie? You guys are like peas and carrots.

[Deano]

What happened to your gennie? You guys are like peas and carrots.

An uncoordinated fat sidecar racer or swinger stood on it while throwing a cone onto Drew and Al's truck, denting it in the process.

[Drew]

Fucken oil seeps out of the sump/cases join. Other than that, it's better than before.

Must have a play with the cam angle sensor at a test day I think. When it was advanced a bit far, the thing was responsive as all fuck once we got it started.

Mind, the timing gets altered by the ECU depending on which gear it's in. Must build a timing retard eliminator.

Will it ever be finished I wonder?

[shafty]

What happened to your gennie? You guys are like peas and carrots.

Hey Nodrog, spotted yr truck at our Motel - good luck for today !!!!

Shafty :first:

[Drew]

Didn't even make it to practice this time.

Getting pretty fucking old varying this thing round to watch other people race!

See y'all at Ruapuna... After we fix it properly this time.

[Shaun Harris]

Good luck Drew

[Drew]

Cheers Shaun.

We pulled the sump off today, to find that I haven't fucked up when altering the sump posts that hold in the little oil carrier tubes to the gearbox shafts.

That sucks and makes me feel better at the same time. I haven't fucked it up, but we still don't know the issue.

There are several sources on various websites that talk about air locks in oil filters on the '03 ZX12, and having to 'burp' them while turning the motor over. I've never heard of this before, and would hope that the engineer who came up with the design got fucking sacked!

We took the clutch cover off to make sure the oil and water pump drive shaft hadn't lost it's locator circlip, and it hasn't.

So it's pump out tomorrow to make sure it's not fucked, then back together and try to bleed the oil filter and see what happens.

I'm less than impressed to say the least, four days out from going to the national points races to have an undiagnosed problem...more so since the oil pump from our '00 and '01 motors is different to the '03, should that turn out to be the problem.

[pete376403]

I know an engine builder (a good one) packing oil pumps with vaseline prior to installing, to make sure the pump would pickup oil on the first startup. A few blobs of vaseline in the oil did no harm.

[Grumph]

I know an engine builder (a good one) packing oil pumps with vaseline prior to installing, to make sure the pump would pickup oil on the first startup. A few blobs of vaseline in the oil did no harm.

I prefer a moly assembly lube....but both work.

Drew - can you disconnect an external oil line and motor it over till you get oil at that point ? I assume that whatever oil pressure indicator you're using aint showing anything ? If you can get oil from the pump, it may show your indicator system is faulty....

[Edbear]

I prefer a moly assembly lube....but both work.

Drew - can you disconnect an external oil line and motor it over till you get oil at that point ? I assume that whatever oil pressure indicator you're using aint showing anything ? If you can get oil from the pump, it may show your indicator system is faulty....

Sidecars have indicators? :blink:









Sorry... slow day. :shutup:

[Drew]

I prefer a moly assembly lube....but both work.

Drew - can you disconnect an external oil line and motor it over till you get oil at that point ? I assume that whatever oil pressure indicator you're using aint showing anything ? If you can get oil from the pump, it may show your indicator system is faulty....
Can take the pressure sender out to test for actual pressure rather than indicated. Thumb over the hole type deal, like checking compression on an old two stroke styles.

The thing that has me fucked, and almost lends weight to the airlock theory is that we HAD oil pressure. We didn't take a race bike with a new motor without having started it. The weight lent would be that as the motor got up to operating temp, any air bubble would expand and then cause issue.

We'll know more tomorrow when I pull the pump out...Where do I get this 'Moly assembly lube' from?

[jasonu]

Where do I get this 'Moly assembly lube' from?

Prolly Supercheap. It aint nothing special.

[Ocean1]

Where do I get this 'Moly assembly lube' from?

Trade tools: http://tradetools.co.nz/webimages/2845130-10.pdf

And probably most engineers suppliers.

But I'd wait to check with Grumph, I'd personally not use anything with molybdenum disulphide in it anywhere near a wet clutch.

[Grumph]

Prolly Supercheap. It aint nothing special.

Correct - there are several brands out there, all moly base greases basically. Even my local ITM had the Wurth version on sale a while back....

If the filter is at the front of the motor, could be worth raising the rear of the chair when you fire it to try and get any air out....But if you've got a shallow sump you could be sucking air....

[Grumph]

Trade tools: http://tradetools.co.nz/webimages/2845130-10.pdf

And probably most engineers suppliers.

But I'd wait to check with Grumph, I'd personally not use anything with molybdenum disulphide in it anywhere near a wet clutch.

Never had a problem...maybe an ounce of moly grease dissolved in four plus liters of oil....

[Ocean1]

Never had a problem...maybe an ounce of moly grease dissolved in four plus liters of oil....

I used small quantities, rubbed onto cam lobes and any other high load contact surfaces, but sparingly. The one build I had clutch problems with was from a high molly content oil.

[Shaun Harris]

I used small quantities, rubbed onto cam lobes and any other high load contact surfaces, but sparingly.






That is the correct way to use it for building an engine.

[Grumph]

I used small quantities, rubbed onto cam lobes and any other high load contact surfaces, but sparingly.

That is the correct way to use it for building an engine.

I agree Shaun - but we were talking about prepacking oil pumps....as i said earlier, vaseline - or white grease - works fine for this but i prefer an assembly lube as i've seen problems - but only on roller bearing motors which don't move the volume of oil the kawa in question will....On older roller motors vaseline can inhibit flow badly until it gets hot enough to liquefy - and i've seen a roller big end starved enough to seize. hence my preference for assembly lube....

[Drew]

I agree Shaun - but we were talking about prepacking oil pumps....as i said earlier, vaseline - or white grease - works fine for this but i prefer an assembly lube as i've seen problems - but only on roller bearing motors which don't move the volume of oil the kawa in question will....On older roller motors vaseline can inhibit flow badly until it gets hot enough to liquefy - and i've seen a roller big end starved enough to seize. hence my preference for assembly lube....

Hang on a mo. If I were to prepack the oil pump with assembly grease, I then need to run it up and drain that oil don't I?

Sort of defeating the purpose. The motor is not brand new, and the internals were all wet with oil from previous running before we got it. In fact it looks like it only got drained of oil for shipping.

[Shaun Harris]

Hang on a mo. If I were to prepack the oil pump with assembly grease, I then need to run it up and drain that oil don't I?

Sort of defeating the purpose. The motor is not brand new, and the internals were all wet with oil from previous running before we got it. In fact it looks like it only got drained of oil for shipping.






Assembly grease No Drew, NO DRAMA what so ever, as you only use a smear of it on moving metal parts, NOT BLOBS of it in motor. Remember air rises dude, and bleed the oil well

[Drew]

Assembly grease No Drew, NO DRAMA what so ever, as you only use a smear of it on moving metal parts, NOT BLOBS of it in motor. Remember air rises dude, and bleed the oil wellThere hasn't been an assembly though. All surfaces are wet already from running. I turned the motor over for quite a while before plugging in the cam angle sensor and starting it, to circulate the oil.

We're talking about packing the oil pump full of the stuff, so there is negative pressure straight away rather than waiting till oil gets to it.

[Shaun Harris]

There hasn't been an assembly though. All surfaces are wet already from running. I turned the motor over for quite a while before plugging in the cam angle sensor and starting it, to circulate the oil.

We're talking about packing the oil pump full of the stuff, so there is negative pressure straight away rather than waiting till oil gets to it.







I understand what is being talked about man but those motors are common for oil pick up pressure problems. I would be finding the highest point to let OIL/AIR escape from whilst motor is idiling. It will take a little time and reg checks for oil level, but will gaurantee the air is deleted from the system.

Put a post on www.wera.com in the tech section re air and those motors and you will get some healthy replies over the next 24 hours ( Due to time differences)

[Drew]

I understand what is being talked about man but those motors are common for oil pick up pressure problems. I would be finding the highest point to let OIL/AIR escape from whilst motor is idiling. It will take a little time and reg checks for oil level, but will gaurantee the air is deleted from the system.

Put a post on www.wera.com (http://www.wera.com) in the tech section re air and those motors and you will get some healthy replies over the next 24 hours ( Due to time differences)Oh right.

I'll have a look for a high external spot to bleed air from, I can't think of anything higher than the filter from memory.

[Drew]

Well, in a rather surprising turn of events a couple things have been discovered.

The last motor didn't expire due to the oil pressure relief valve at all. It would have been causing the pressure to drop a bit for sure, but the real cause was in fact a sheered drive on the oil pump...on BOTH fucken motors.

Turns out that if you over fill the Kawasakis, they can get such high pressures that the pump tries to stop and shit gets messy.

Luckily we had the drive shaft as one of the few useable bits from the original motor, so we are up and running again. With a more sensible oil level of course.

We'll be getting an accusump kit when we get back from the south island just to be sure, but confidence is a tad higher now that we can start finishing some races.

[nzmikey]

Well, in a rather surprising turn of events a couple things have been discovered.

The last motor didn't expire due to the oil pressure relief valve at all. It would have been causing the pressure to drop a bit for sure, but the real cause was in fact a sheered drive on the oil pump...on BOTH fucken motors.

Turns out that if you over fill the Kawasakis, they can get such high pressures that the pump tries to stop and shit gets messy.

Luckily we had the drive shaft as one of the few useable bits from the original motor, so we are up and running again. With a more sensible oil level of course.

We'll be getting an accusump kit when we get back from the south island just to be sure, but confidence is a tad higher now that we can start finishing some races.

:woohoo::drinkup:

[nodrog]

I like Boobies!

[Ocean1]

Well, in a rather surprising turn of events a couple things have been discovered.

The last motor didn't expire due to the oil pressure relief valve at all. It would have been causing the pressure to drop a bit for sure, but the real cause was in fact a sheered drive on the oil pump...on BOTH fucken motors.

Turns out that if you over fill the Kawasakis, they can get such high pressures that the pump tries to stop and shit gets messy.

Luckily we had the drive shaft as one of the few useable bits from the original motor, so we are up and running again. With a more sensible oil level of course.

We'll be getting an accusump kit when we get back from the south island just to be sure, but confidence is a tad higher now that we can start finishing some races.


That's good. Very good.

But how does overfilling them cause the pump to, (presumably) hydraulic lock if there's a functional relief valve in line?