Dobbed in weed-growing parents

[blue rider]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/73383_446436158777426_646751640_n.jpg

yes all the answers are in the bible or the law for those who like to be obedient!

[unstuck]

Too stoned to read all of this thread.:doobey:

[mashman]

yes all the answers are in the bible or the law for those who like to be obedient!

cannot give to you again etc...

[Katman]

Yep, freedom it is....but freedom to do what exactly? Freedom to put others at risk? Freedom to inflict a personality controlled by a lightswitch on others? (speaking from personal experience). Freedom to get as high as you like regardless of the children in your care? Like it or nor not individual freedom's have to be balanced against the effects on the wider community.

Until the anti-cannabis brigade put as much effort into the banning of alcohol as they do for the continuing of cannabis criminalisation then the 'someone think of the children' argument is totally invalid.

[Madness]

Yep, freedom it is....but freedom to do what exactly? Freedom to put others at risk? Freedom to inflict a personality controlled by a lightswitch on others? (speaking from personal experience). Freedom to get as high as you like regardless of the children in your care? Like it or nor not individual freedom's have to be balanced against the effects on the wider community.

Freedom to make a choice as an adult knowing that as with most things in life there are consequences for ones actions. The consequences for being in posession of a plant or being under said plants influence are disproportionate under the current laws. No need to remove the liability for ones actions under any other laws at all, just don't make someone a criminal for having a bud in their pocket. Pretty fucking simple I would have thought. Currently adults are free to ingest alcohol as much as they like, wether they be caring for children at the time or have a "lightswitch" personality. You may not realise this but something like 15% of New Zealand is currently smoking Cannabis already, isn't it incredible that our society hasn't crumbled into a cesspit of depravity already? Oh, that's right it has - must be the Cannabis use :facepalm:


First timer with no history I doubt you'd have a conviction recorded, for the very reasons you mention. Fair? Is it fair to cry foul if you are caught drinking/buying alcohol in Saudi Arabia and receive a public flogging? Is it fair to cry foul when receiving a death sentence for importing drugs into Indonesia? In comparison to some of those policies you could argue that the penalty's in NZ are virtually non-existent. But if everyone knows the consequences how is it unfair? And if the consequences are that severe (even though they aren't in comparison to others), the question has to be asked: why do it? It's your future, if you knowingly choose to put it at risk then be prepared to suck up whatever happens.

Believe it or not, this is KiwiBiker, not SaudiBiker or IndonesianBiker. This discussion is about what's going on in our society, get with the program. I do knowingly choose to put my future at risk, I am culpable for my own actions as an adult and I'm prepared to "suck it up" but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.


Hmmm, I thought cannabis was supposed to free the mind? So why the limited imagination? Methinks you need to experience a lil' more life and see the law of unintended consequences played out a few times. "Nothing really changes" in your above argument? You don't think the use of cannabis will massively increase without a deterrent? You don't think that the problems associated with it's use (you may be a god while using it but many folks aren't) will also increase proportionally? You don't think mental/physical health services will feel added burden? Short sighted much? So plenty of known and unknown consequences for what benefit? SFA as far as I can see.

It does free the mind. You wrongly assume that I was under the influence of Cannabis when I wrote that post - I was not (very short-sighted of you). Should decriminalisation happen in New Zealand very little will happen, hell Cannabis consumption will probably fall as it has in other countries following law reforms in those countries. Tobacco is bad for you, we all agree on that (I hope) but TPTB have decided to not ban the substance outright and to take other measures including education as it is believed (by experts) that this is the best course of action to reduce consumption & minimise harm. Why then still make criminals out of Cannabis smokers? It's as mad as bat shit.


Why 17 and not 11 for your hypothetical son? It's all good right? But playing the "but what about alcohol?" card is like saying "they're doin' sumthin' stoopid, so I wanna be allowed to do sumthin' stoopid too". Life isn't an episode of "Jackass", although this thread does make me wonder. The inconsistency in your argument is that your gratuitous use of Marmite really only affects you, whereas free use of cannabis (you were talking about freedom, weren't you?) would also affect many (I'm happy to admit not all) families, workmates, and communities. If there was a possibility of there being a net benefit to society then have at it, camp out in the greenhouse and light up the whole crops, I wouldn't give a shit. But doing the math based on my own experience the only major benefits are related to medicinal use for the chronically/terminally ill not wholesale public consumption.

The Marmite thing, as far-fetched as it was, is likely to affect families, workmates and communities as much as Cannabis law reform would. You've obviously bought into the propoganda line of the past 50 years and quite frankly so much damage has been done in this regard I don't have the time to try & fix that for you (I'm going for a ride today).


That's exactly my point, we don't know a fukn thing about the drivers behind what has happened, but until you know why she's done it jumping to any conclusion is exercising your knee instead of your brain. Seems like common sense to me but as they say, it's obviously not that common these days. She may well just be a spitefull, pious bitch......or as a 10year old she may have been paid a bedroom visit by Uncle Frank while mum and dad giggled away on the couch sharing a joint.

You

just

don't

know.

But hey, if you're prepared to judge someone you don't know, in a situation you know nothing about, be prepared for the same in return. There's nothing to chew, no substance whatsoever. It's not the now that we need to consider, it's the previous 18years and how drug use may have impacted her childhood. Again, we have no idea what has happened, could be perfectly mundane or fukn horrific.

So, as Akzle suggested, you're putting it out there that the girl in question may have been sexually abused (who's on drugs again) and as such it makes the illegality of Cannabis fair & reasonable :wacko: I seriously believe you have presented nothing at all to this discussion that justifies retention of the current Cannabis laws, nothing - not one fucking thing. Nice try though sweetheart.


Counselling? I'm not the one having a tanty in the middle of the supermarket 'cos mummy won't let me have a snickers bar.

Who's having a tanty? Boris hasn't posted for pages now. It's a debate being held all over this fine country of ours every day. More and more "regular people" who consume Cannabis but haven't voiced their opinions previously for fear of reprisals are now starting to speak up. We've had a gutsful and we're not about to shut up any time soon (get used to it). There are more (otherwise) law-abiding citizens in this country who want Cannabis law reform than there are homos who want to get married. The Gay Marriage debate has got there first as it's more palatable for our society, too many narrow-minded people like yourself just aren't ready for the Cannabis discussion but it will happen, soon.


(By the way, good luck with that visa application...)

Again, you seem to be making assumptions about me. I have no convictions, therefore I foresee no problems with any Visa application I may choose to make. It's unlikely I will be doing so, I just love it here so much - must be the people.

[blue rider]

Until the anti-cannabis brigade put as much effort into the banning of alcohol as they do for the continuing of cannabis criminalisation then the 'someone think of the children' argument is totally invalid.



and this is it in a nutshell.....
alcohol causes much harm yet is widely available in retail outlets all over the country.
cigarettes cause many more death per year than most of all the other drugs combined, yet is still available albeit taxed to the hilt.
yet sativa / indica / sensimilla is demonised and the use/possession of it will get one faster to prison than someone who drives drunk and ends up killing someone.

double standard much?

[Madness]

alcohol causes much harm yet is widely available in retail outlets all over the country.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8519486/Police-attacked-in-drunken-riot

[mashman]

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/20/79/74087920/photos/LESBIAN-KISS/74224_107965099270754_100001717930874_84571_637707 _n.jpg

[Laava]

Really though, the crimes associated with weed are more centred around the illegal sale and distribution. You look at the people who are making the most money out of it and you will will find they are gangster thugs. As the government will never have any control over that side of it, they have no interest in making it legal or even decriminalising it. And given that your average weed smoker does not grow their own, there is a huge market there which will always be controlled by gangs. But we all know that.
if people grew their own weed, this situation would not be there and things would be very different.
i don't give a toss if you smoke it, and I don't give a toss if you grow your own.
Oh, and nice pic Mashie! Actually , no, I am offended! Please don't post lots more just to piss me off!
Actually I am going for a ride now, so will make sure there are no offending pics when I get back.

[Madness]

Really though, the crimes associated with weed are more centred around the illegal sale and distribution. You look at the people who are making the most money out of it and you will will find they are gangster thugs. As the government will never have any control over that side of it, they have no interest in making it legal or even decriminalising it. And given that your average weed smoker does not grow their own, there is a huge market there which will always be controlled by gangs. But we all know that.
if people grew their own weed, this situation would not be there and things would be very different.
i don't give a toss if you smoke it, and I don't give a toss if you grow your own.

Exactly. Decriminalise it and you'll probably find that a lot of current smokers will put a patch in their 1/4 acre section. The price would fall and the crime (real crime like burglary & theft) associated with Cannabis use would eventually disappear. There would be change but I struggle to see the "doomsday effect" happening that slowpoke et al continually put up as an attempt to justify the status quo.

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/575797_352834274828740_337228133_n.jpg

[ducatilover]

Too stoned to read all of this thread.:doobey: Or, gobbling too much knob?
You sir are a pot smoking bum bandit, teh byeball sez so

[SMOKEU]

When are the sheep going to wake up and stop listening to the same old Jewish propaganda which has been repeatedly disproved by modern science?

[blue rider]

blahblahblah?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStXPWa793XffRj3-etg2wm8qKV6CouOYlyjO-FAICSrdn2XyQA

[SMOKEU]

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100402/girls_with_weed_40.jpg

[FJRider]

Cannabis and speeding are not really comparable issues...
Even I know that for goodness' sake and I'm a bald ginger.

I speed more than I inject marijuanas


I was not comparing them ... simply using the same argument to prove the point.

[MSTRS]

You're being very elusive as usual too Ed. Have you smoked Cannabis before, ever?
He' s so old he's forgotten. Must be researching the subject in his old school diaries...


...you deserve to be punished even more.

Like this perhaps?
http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tumblr-lead-e1307989023454.jpg

[Madness]

I was not comparing them ... simply using the same argument to prove the point.

Pity it didn't prove anything, innit?

[FJRider]

Pity it didn't prove anything, innit?

Then neither could your argument ... as you only stated opinion.

[Madness]

Then neither could your argument ... as you only stated opinion.

I never stated I was proving anything though = big difference.

[Edbear]

There are laws in this country already that cover driving a motor vehicle while impaired by drugs and I see no reason why these need to change with my limited knowledge on this area of the law. If you're driving like a cock you're likely to get pulled up, regardless of wether you're stoned or not. If you cause an accident & harm others or their property you deserve the consequences that are coming your way and if you caused harm whilst being under the influence at the time you deserve to be punished even more.

This discussion isn't about driving or speeding after having consumed cannabis though, is it Ed? It's about the stupid bitch who snitched on her parents for having a couple of plants growing in their garden which in all likleyhood were to be consumed by adults as a relaxant in the privacy & security of their own home. Currently if you're in posession of Cannabis sitting on your couch in your living room with the doors, windows & curtains closed you're a fucking criminal, regardless of how incapacitated you may or not be. It is wrong,plain & simple and the girl is a cunt.

You're being very elusive as usual too Ed. Have you smoked Cannabis before, ever?

You are extremely judgmental as are some others here. You label and judge the girl without knowing anything at all about her or her family dynamic based purely on your preference for legal, unlimited use of Cannabis. Your opinion is from one who is totally prejudiced and one-eyed biased. You freely denigrate anyone who disagrees with you on any grounds regardless whether they have smoked dope or had any involvement with those who do/have. There is no balance or open-mindedness on your part to consider anything other than that dope is okay and should be legal and any who disagree on any grounds are stupid fools.

As I said, it is entirely your own opinion as to how much affected you are by it and as to what activities you consider yourself safely capable of. Yet you say the Law should be catching real criminals and use such as alcohol and traffic laws as an example. Again, who decides who is capable? You freely judge others as to being criminals or tossers in other situations yet they surely have the same right as you to decide they are not doing any harm or anything dangerous to others. This is hypocrisy.

Why don't you spend a few nights with the Cops on the beat and the ER's at the hospitals, talk to Drs. and surgeons, Paramedics, you know the one's who KNOW about things first hand?

I have never smoked dope except second hand. It was freely used by workmates on Forestry back in the '70's so I got to experience some of the effects and observe many users. Smoking anything is bad for your health and dope so obviously affecting users in a negative way, plus being illegal, turned me right off. I have been in the company of so many over the last 40 years or so who smoke dope that I am happy with my observances and my choices.

If you have to get stoned or drunk to "be part of life" or enjoy life, you are a sad sack with no life at all.



what the fuck are you on about. all of those things are bullshit.


1) i did. and i'm not entering into much longwinded discussion about it (not looking at anyone in particular).
so.. i have your permission to smoke dope now? do i ed, pwease, pwetty pwease?

2) you need to get some better literature (or dope) try the G13 that the united states federal government grows (it's GM, but good dope) no paranoia or "side" effects just nifty, medical grade cannabijuana.

can't argue with the us ed, otherwise they might invade your country.which happens to be my country, and i'm not down with that shit.

and what about heroin, ed? like the whole "we're off to afghansitan" thing.
heroin has legitimate medical uses, it's prescribed, even comes in handy tablets. (has "side" effects, obviously) but shirley you must be anti heroin?

Same comment as per my post re: cannabis use in medical sitations.
bro. (well, not bro, you're an aucklander) i will huuuuuk yuuuuu uppppp. oneday. i have a stack of seeds that are refusing to grow :crybaby:

are you awake ed? do you remember which side of this argument you were on?
YES.
i'm firmly of the belief that if you're not harming anyone else you should be "allowed" to do whatever the fuck you want. going fast while stoned is definitely one of those things.

or, perhaps, no, we need some god-like people to tell us how to live our lives, and what's "safe", and whether we are "in control" of a vehicle going sideways. because no grown up could decide those things for themselves. obviously.


1) shit. that's right. everyone turns into a raving incestuous pedophile everytime they smoke dope, a damn shame i'm a kindy teacher in the day time, innit. your little timmy is looking hot. :motu:

2) at 18 in this country (or 15 if you want to fuck) you're considered an adult. is it an adult decision to snitch on your parents? maybe, if you're a bitch.
surely if there had been problems (like all that raving incestuous pedophilia that obviously happend.) in the past, she might have, say, called the police then?

silence is consent. ...it's not rape just 'cos she's unconscious. [/COLOR]

You missed my point about personal choices? If you should be free to decide for yourself what is safe and what you are capable of, as Madnes claimed, why judge others by telling the Police to go catch the "real offenders"? Who decides who the "real offenders" are? As I said above, it is hypocritical to claim that right for yourself but not for everyone.

You might feel you are quite sober and in full control, yet you know that people under the influence of drugs, and to a lesser extent, low alcohol consumption, are fooled into thinking they are better than they are in reality.

If someome beside you, observing you, tells you you are stoned or drunk, or at least showing the effects of what you have ingested, they will be right, and if you claim otherwise you will be wrong.

[SMOKEU]

Your opinion is from one who is totally prejudiced and one-eyed biased. You freely denigrate anyone who disagrees with you on any grounds regardless whether they have smoked dope or had any involvement with those who do/have. There is no balance or open-mindedness on your part to consider anything other than that dope is okay and should be legal and any who disagree on any grounds are stupid fools.



He is being entirely open minded and is listening to proven scientific facts, not some myths that the brainwashed sheep believe. It's a real shame this country doesn't have more people like that, as NZ would be a much better place if the government and general population listened to science and reasoning instead of treating old wives tales and unproven speculation as fact.

[onearmedbandit]

If you have to get stoned or drunk to "be part of life" or enjoy life, you are a sad sack with no life at all.



Interesting observation.

[Fergus]

He is being entirely open minded and is listening to proven scientific facts, not some myths that the brainwashed sheep believe. It's a real shame this country doesn't have more people like that, as NZ would be a much better place if the government and general population listened to science and reasoning instead of treating old wives tales and unproven speculation as fact.

Could you provide some links to these "proven scientific facts" please?

[Madness]

You are extremely judgmental as are some others here.

You're the title holder on this site, the rest of us can only aspire to your greatness in this area.


You label and judge the girl without knowing anything at all about her or her family dynamic based purely on your preference for legal, unlimited use of Cannabis. Your opinion is from one who is totally prejudiced and one-eyed biased.

I label and judge the actions of the girl based on the information available and my opinion regarding the illegality and seriousness of Cannabis posession compared to the draconian penalties imposed if caught, both by the courts and large parts of our society. My opinion is formed from my own life experiences, rather than what I have read in a book or observed others doing. Opinions are like arseholes Ed, even you're allowed one. I'm going to take your description of me as being one-eyed biased as a compliment, just as I would if Choppa called me a fast rider.


You freely denigrate anyone who disagrees with you on any grounds regardless whether they have smoked dope or had any involvement with those who do/have. There is no balance or open-mindedness on your part to consider anything other than that dope is okay and should be legal and any who disagree on any grounds are stupid fools.

I'd be happy with decriminisation, it doesn't have to be a free for all and there are certainly solid grounds for restrictions on use, as there is with alcohol and tobacco. As for your perception of denigration, you should join the queue for counselling, it's getting rather long. You yourself consider any who disagree with your ideas on religion as fools so what's the big problem?


As I said, it is entirely your own opinion as to how much affected you are by it and as to what activities you consider yourself safely capable of. Yet you say the Law should be catching real criminals and use such as alcohol and traffic laws as an example. Again, who decides who is capable? You freely judge others as to being criminals or tossers in other situations yet they surely have the same right as you to decide they are not doing any harm or anything dangerous to others. This is hypocrisy.

I never brought the traffic laws into this discussion at all. I have suggested that those and other laws need not change and people who choose to consume Cannabis should still be responsible for their actions under these laws, regardless of the legal status of Cannabis itself. Who decides who is capable of consuming alcohol? The consumer does, that's who. Again, I'll take your accusation of hypocrisy as a compliment in this instance.


Why don't you spend a few nights with the Cops on the beat and the ER's at the hospitals, talk to Drs. and surgeons, Paramedics, you know the one's who KNOW about things first hand?

So Cops, Doctors and Surgeons in hospitals smoke Cannabis - how else would they KNOW first hand? I've got better things to do Ed but thanks for the advice.


I have never smoked dope except second hand.

Finally! So you're spouting from a position of ignorance then. Glad we established that at long last.


It was freely used by workmates on Forestry back in the '70's so I got to experience some of the effects and observe many users.

So all these workmates killed themselves with chainsaws while stoned then?


Smoking anything is bad for your health and dope so obviously affecting users in a negative way, plus being illegal, turned me right off.

You're a bit slow on the uptake eh? You don't have to smoke it to enjoy its benefits. If it weren't illegal I'm guessing you might not have been turned off so much? (By the way, the thought of you being turned on is rather sickening).


I have been in the company of so many over the last 40 years or so who smoke dope that I am happy with my observances and my choices.

I'm really pleased for you Ed. No, really I am.


If you have to get stoned or drunk to "be part of life" or enjoy life, you are a sad sack with no life at all.

I agree entirely, just as I think that if you have to force your beliefs on others or interfere with their freedom to enjoy life the way that they see fit you're a sad fuck also.

[blue rider]

http://nogmoseedbank.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/catnip-cat.jpg

[ducatilover]

I'd be happy with decriminisation, it doesn't have to be a free for all and there are certainly solid grounds for restrictions on use, as there is with alcohol and tobacco.

What would you like to see as restrictions on use with teh wackybaccy?
I think the restrictions on tobacco are going to become quite silly in the near future.

[Madness]

What would you like to see as restrictions on use with teh wackybaccy?

I think it should have an age restriction, obviously, just as with alcohol & tobacco. There should be severe penalties for supplying Cannabis to minors and perhaps a limit on personal posession before you have to go see a Judge. Posessing Cannabis for personal use should be treated as a health issue and dealth with by way of education, rather than persecution. I'd like to be able to grow a few plants each year, in amongst the tomatoes, without fear of being convicted. Currently under the existing laws millions, if not billions of dollars are going to commercial growers as Joe Average is too scared to grow their own. There would be massive benefits economically if even part of this money went into the taxable economy. Licensed distributors could be explored and with this could be an opportunity to create restrictions on packaging to include health warnings and contact information for further education.


I think the restrictions on tobacco are going to become quite silly in the near future.

Parts of the new regime already are and plain packaging is a joke in my opinion.

[blue rider]

What would you like to see as restrictions on use with teh wackybaccy?
I think the restrictions on tobacco are going to become quite silly in the near future.

the Drug Policy used in the Netherlands would be a good start.

however the usage and retail of "la belle Marie Jeanne" could be handled such as alcohol. Only sold in liscensed premises, no entry for under 18 years old, no sale to under 18 years old.

Misuse, ie. driving under the influence could be handled with the same stringend law enforcement currently applied to drink drivers.

Selling to minors and selling above allowed quantities could/should have their lisences removed

Growing of the plant should only be allowed if planted as a companion plant to tomatoes and only 5 plants per person....etc etc etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

[Edbear]

You're the title holder on this site, the rest of us can only aspire to your greatness in this area.

I label and judge the actions of the girl based on the information available and my opinion regarding the illegality and seriousness of Cannabis posession compared to the draconian penalties imposed if caught, both by the courts and large parts of our society. My opinion is formed from my own life experiences, rather than what I have read in a book or observed others doing. Opinions are like arseholes Ed, even you're allowed one. I'm going to take your description of me as being one-eyed biased as a compliment, just as I would if Choppa called me a fast rider.

I'd be happy with decriminisation, it doesn't have to be a free for all and there are certainly solid grounds for restrictions on use, as there is with alcohol and tobacco. As for your perception of denigration, you should join the queue for counselling, it's getting rather long. You yourself consider any who disagree with your ideas on religion as fools so what's the big problem?

I never brought the traffic laws into this discussion at all. I have suggested that those and other laws need not change and people who choose to consume Cannabis should still be responsible for their actions under these laws, regardless of the legal status of Cannabis itself. Who decides who is capable of consuming alcohol? The consumer does, that's who. Again, I'll take your accusation of hypocrisy as a compliment in this instance.

So Cops, Doctors and Surgeons in hospitals smoke Cannabis - how else would they KNOW first hand? I've got better things to do Ed but thanks for the advice.

Finally! So you're spouting from a position of ignorance then. Glad we established that at long last.

So all these workmates killed themselves with chainsaws while stoned then?

You're a bit slow on the uptake eh? You don't have to smoke it to enjoy its benefits. If it weren't illegal I'm guessing you might not have been turned off so much? (By the way, the thought of you being turned on is rather sickening).

I'm really pleased for you Ed. No, really I am.

I agree entirely, just as I think that if you have to force your beliefs on others or interfere with their freedom to enjoy life the way that they see fit you're a sad fuck also.

Speaking of spouting from ignorance... "Based on the information available..." :weird: let's not try to find out the full story, eh? Might spoil your pet prejudices... :(

Your response to my suggestion about spending time with those people who are at the coal face, is plain idiotic and you know it. As is your response about the workmates and others I have spent time with. You do your argument no favours at all with such stupid replies.

Please do quote me anywhere I have forced my beliefs on anyone. :yes: Oh, you won't will you because you "have better things to do.."

[Madness]

Misuse, ie. driving under the influence could be handled with the same stringend law enforcement currently applied to drink drivers.

To my understanding the accuracy of testing in this area is seriously lacking in terms of being able to determine actual impairment, rather than simply Cannabinoids present in the blood. Drug testing in general in this country is a complete farce for this reason but hopefully advances in science & technology will soon remedy this.

[Madness]

Speaking of spouting from ignorance... "Based on the information available..." :weird: let's not try to find out the full story, eh? Might spoil your pet prejudices... :(

Your response to my suggestion about spending time with those people who are at the coal face, is plain idiotic and you know it. As is your response about the workmates and others I have spent time with. You do your argument no favours at all with such stupid replies.

Please do quote me anywhere I have forced my beliefs on anyone. :yes: Oh, you won't will you because you "have better things to do.."

Ed to reply to any of this is a complete waste of time and quite frankly I can't be fucked. It would be like trying to convert you to Islam, it just aint gonna happen. Have a nice day!

[Edbear]

the Drug Policy used in the Netherlands would be a good start.

however the usage and retail of "la belle Marie Jeanne" could be handled such as alcohol. Only sold in liscensed premises, no entry for under 18 years old, no sale to under 18 years old.

Misuse, ie. driving under the influence could be handled with the same stringend law enforcement currently applied to drink drivers.

Selling to minors and selling above allowed quantities could/should have their lisences removed

Growing of the plant should only be allowed if planted as a companion plant to tomatoes and only 5 plants per person....etc etc etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

"Stringent law applied to drink drivers.." :lol: LoL! You mean the wet bus ticket approach used currently despite adequate punishments available?

[Laava]

Exactly. Decriminalise it and you'll probably find that a lot of current smokers will put a patch in their 1/4 acre section. The price would fall and the crime (real crime like burglary & theft) associated with Cannabis use would eventually disappear. There would be change but I struggle to see the "doomsday effect" happening that slowpoke et al continually put up as an attempt to justify the status quo.

disgustingly off topic picture that does not interest anyone

I kinda agree but also think the dope smokers should just grow their own anyway and the situation would change as a result. It isn't going to change otherwise IMO.
Lotta stoners are to lazy to grow their own to start with.

[Madness]

I kinda agree but also think the dope smokers should just grow their own anyway and the situation would change as a result. It isn't going to change otherwise IMO.
Lotta stoners are to lazy to grow their own to start with.

It's not laziness, it's fear of persecution. Posted from my own personal experience, rather than from Eds book of words.

[Edbear]

Interesting observation.

IMHO, of course...:rolleyes:


Ed to reply to any of this is a complete waste of time and quite frankly I can't be fucked. It would be like trying to convert you to Islam, it just aint gonna happen. Have a nice day!

Yup, predictable as Katman with just as lame a post. :niceone:

I'm having a wonderful day, thanks! You too! :sunny:

[Madness]

Yup, predictable as Katman with just as lame a post. :niceone:

I'm having a wonderful day, thanks! You too! :sunny:

Stop it with the compliments already! I'm glad you're having a wonderful day, now fuck off so the rest of us can do the same will ya?

[blue rider]

To my understanding the accuracy of testing in this area is seriously lacking in terms of being able to determine actual impairment, rather than simply Cannabinoids present in the blood. Drug testing in general in this country is a complete farce for this reason but hopefully advances in science & technology will soon remedy this.


If a copper believes that someone is under the influence of say P, or precription drugs or coke or any other drug, surely they have an option to get these drivers out of their car and to a hospital..../ police station for testing.
I am all for decriminalising the use and simply possesion for own use, however i don't think that driving while under the influence of anything should be legal at all. and I include alcohol.

[MSTRS]

And meanwhile, a woman sits in jail awaiting trial for the heinous crime of forging a pass certificate from Teachers Training College.
Anyone would think she'd driven her car drunk and stoned, and run over and killed the PM's grandchild...

[Edbear]

Could you provide some links to these "proven scientific facts" please?

:lol::killingme:lol::killingme you do have high expectations. :rolleyes:

[Laava]

It's not laziness, it's fear of persecution. Posted from my own personal experience, rather than from Eds book of words.

Yeah, nah I have mixed with my fair share of stoners and it is definitely laziness.

[Madness]

If a copper believes that someone is under the influence of say P, or precription drugs or coke or any other drug, surely they have an option to get these drivers out of their car and to a hospital..../ police station for testing.
I am all for decriminalising the use and simply possesion for own use, however i don't think that driving while under the influence of anything should be legal at all. and I include alcohol.

The issue is that current tests, as I understand it, can determine the presence of Cannabinoids in the system but this does not correlate to being impaired as traces can remain in the system for a long time. This issue has been raised and discussed in the media with regards to companies performing tests in the workplace and the representatives of said companies have conceded that their tests do not prove impairment. You could smoke a J on Thursday and get tested the following Tuesday and be found to have failed the drug test. It's bullshit.

[mashman]

T'would seem like a good time to bring out awa355's sig

"Rule books are for the Guidance of the Wise, and the Obedience of Fools" Abraham Lincoln, 1861. Essentially those against MJ are obedient fools.

and something to earn the wrath of Laava

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/paisha_04/lesbians.jpg

[mashman]

I kinda agree but also think the dope smokers should just grow their own anyway and the situation would change as a result. It isn't going to change otherwise IMO.
Lotta stoners are to lazy to grow their own to start with.

As in the OP... it just takes one disgruntled fucktard and you get a visit from the popo. Fucking with the liberty of others should be done with great care and should have consequences should it be deemed a waste of time.

[Edbear]

Stop it with the compliments already! I'm glad you're having a wonderful day, now fuck off so the rest of us can do the same will ya?

What? And leave you with nobody to girlfight with? :girlfight:


If a copper believes that someone is under the influence of say P, or precription drugs or coke or any other drug, surely they have an option to get these drivers out of their car and to a hospital..../ police station for testing.
I am all for decriminalising the use and simply possesion for own use, however i don't think that driving while under the influence of anything should be legal at all. and I include alcohol.

How come you are posting stuff I agree with? :scratch:

Personally I feel that the laws currently available re: operating machinery or driving are adequate but seldom pursued enough to effect change in people's attitudes.

I don't use mind altering substances as I like to be in sober control at all times. The one exception was when near death in hospital and on Ketamine, I accepted the weird hallucinatory side effects as preferable to the agonising pain. So regardless of legal status I would not use Cannabis and as regards alcohol I am not quite a teetotaller but never drink enough to get tipsy, let alone drunk.

As everyone knows there is no safe way to smoke anything so I have never smoked. In fact I am implacably opposed to tobacco manufacturers as those who knowingly and deliberately produce and market a product that is inherently unsafe and causes serious health problems in their so-called, "valuable customers"'.

[Madness]

What? And leave you with nobody to girlfight with? :girlfight:

Oh, go on then. Just let me know when you have anything of value or remotely pertinent to add to the discussion & I'll pay attention.

[blue rider]

What? And leave you with nobody to girlfight with? :girlfight:



How come you are posting stuff I agree with? :scratch:

Personally I feel that the laws currently available re: operating machinery or driving are adequate but seldom pursued enough to effect change in people's attitudes.

I don't use mind altering substances as I like to be in sober control at all times. The one exception was when near death in hospital and on Ketamine, I accepted the weird hallucinatory side effects as preferable to the agonising pain. So regardless of legal status I would not use Cannabis and as regards alcohol I am not quite a teetotaller but never drink enough to get tipsy, let alone drunk.

As everyone knows there is no safe way to smoke anything so I have never smoked. In fact I am implacably opposed to tobacco manufacturers as those who knowingly and deliberately produce and market a product that is inherently unsafe and causes serious health problems in their so-called, "valuable customers"'.


The nice thing about personal choice is that it is personal, it does not matter one ioata what i or someone else do / does as long as it does not harm anyone else in society. Our current laws in regards to Marihuanna are nothing else but harmfull and have been so since the plant was outlawed in the late 1920/1930.

Itis time to re-evaluate and stop the nonsense, or to stop being hypocritical and bann all mind altering substances, again including alcohol, unless in the hospital and in great pain.

[Edbear]

The nice thing about personal choice is that it is personal, it does not matter one ioata what i or someone else do / does as long as it does not harm anyone else in society. Our current laws in regards to Marihuanna are nothing else but harmfull and have been so since the plant was outlawed in the late 1920/1930.

Itis time to re-evaluate and stop the nonsense, or to stop being hypocritical and bann all mind altering substances, again including alcohol, unless in the hospital and in great pain.

That is really the problem the lawmakers face isn't it? We see the results of personal choice everywhere, in the cemeteries and hospitals, overloading the public health system.

It seems that most people have little or no self control and need saving from themselves. Witness obesity, diabetes, alcoholism, recidivist drink drivers, drug addicts etc. You can't legislate common sense, you can only try to control the effects of senselessness. For every person who has and exercises common sense and self control you seem to have a million who can't or won't.

So while I won't use mind altering substances myself, I am very reluctant to support freeing up the law on Cannabis, especially if some of the proponents here are anything to go by. If they were so interested in the possible health benefits of it they would not argue as they do. Very few seem to want to admit they are only interested in smoking it to get high and couldn't care less about anyone or anything else to do with it.

[gwigs]

Reefer Madness


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L1jB7RBGVGk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
:doobey:

[Laava]

As in the OP... it just takes one disgruntled fucktard and you get a visit from the popo. Fucking with the liberty of others should be done with great care and should have consequences should it be deemed a waste of time.

Absolutely. You need to be discreet. I didn't say it would be easy! But i know people who do it and fly under the radar. If you pay me enough money I will tell you where their gardens are.
Very disappointed in your continually posting those degrading pictures. I bet you have used them all up by now.

[mashman]

That is really the problem the lawmakers face isn't it? We see the results of personal choice everywhere, in the cemeteries and hospitals, overloading the public health system.

You can't legislate common sense, you can only try to control the effects of senselessness.

Banning for our own sakes eh... which by extension is pointless coz it's not preventative at all (pathetic illusion for the weak of mind) as those with a lack of regard for the law/themselves/others will do what they want irrespective of what the rule book says or what the consequences are. You can't save me from me. By all means let me know that my choices are "bad" from your point of view, but anything other than that, you can go get thyself to fuck. Leave it to me to kill myself in a way of my choosing as I accept the risks of my choices. You can't legislate for personal responsibility no matter how hard you try... all you're doing is adding consequences for certain actions (which I agree with in some circumstances), you're not preventing anything.

[gwigs]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBroFAHv1a4?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


What a terrible drug...

[Madness]

Eds home movie

Paranoia
Americas children are under siege
From an evil so powerful
So frightful
So mindnumbingly dangerous
Feel the paranoia
What can make sex crazed zombies of us all?
What can force us to kill?
What is the most despicable danger facing our children today?

RELIGION!

[mashman]

Absolutely. You need to be discreet. I didn't say it would be easy! But i know people who do it and fly under the radar. If you pay me enough money I will tell you where their gardens are.
Very disappointed in your continually posting those degrading pictures. I bet you have used them all up by now.

heh... :rofl: you know of criminals and haven't ripped up their plants :shit:!

I wave her private parts in your general direction

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss360/9-esa-1-payasa-6/LESBIANS-3-1.jpg

[gwigs]

Why marijuana is illegal, How it became illegal

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/beUzcEtMkAo?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Madness]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MESZh-_uyUQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This documentary shows the beliefs of the likes of Ed & others to be erroneous. Harvard Professors must be idiots too, eh Ed?

It's long, you might want to roll a few up before you hit play. Yes, it's a repost - sue me.

[blue rider]

That is really the problem the lawmakers face isn't it? We see the results of personal choice everywhere, in the cemeteries and hospitals, overloading the public health system.

It seems that most people have little or no self control and need saving from themselves. Witness obesity, diabetes, alcoholism, recidivist drink drivers, drug addicts etc. You can't legislate common sense, you can only try to control the effects of senselessness. For every person who has and exercises common sense and self control you seem to have a million who can't or won't.

So while I won't use mind altering substances myself, I am very reluctant to support freeing up the law on Cannabis, especially if some of the proponents here are anything to go by. If they were so interested in the possible health benefits of it they would not argue as they do. Very few seem to want to admit they are only interested in smoking it to get high and couldn't care less about anyone or anything else to do with it.


at the end of our lifes we die. it matters not if one is a good fearing tetotalling obedient little somone or if someone is a smoker/drinker/libertarian (in the french sense of things)...at the end of our lifes we die.

I repeat again, i don't care if one believes in jehova, the flying spaghetti monster or the bearded sky fairy....it matters only if that believe start infringing in my personal life.
I don't care if someone shags a man, a women or both .....it matters only if they start infringing in my personal life.
I don't care if someone smokes weed, or snorts a line or makes some magic tea.....it matters only if you start infringing in my personal life.

I could go on forever....if the personal choices do not harm others and society at large, government should butt the feck out and do proper government business..i.e. create a school system affordable for all children regardless of the earning abilitys of their parents, go create good roads regardless of the location in the country, create a health care system the not only treats symtoms but tries to eradicate the disease, upheld a defense of the country and a law enforcment agencuy that is populated by people wishing to serve the community instead of just hoping to get a job with good benefits (yes I have absolutly no respect for people in uniform, excluding nurses and firefighters.)

Drug laws as they are enforced to day are not ridding us of crime, it only makes criminals out of the user. If after having a war on drugs for over 40 years (the phrase was coined by Nixon of all people) and we haven't won yet, surely we are not doing it right.


to make this all short.....most people don't need saving, but an awful lot of people need to stop prostelyzing, be it god, drugs, food or speed.

[FJRider]

If a copper believes that someone is under the influence of say P, or precription drugs or coke or any other drug, surely they have an option to get these drivers out of their car and to a hospital..../ police station for testing.
I am all for decriminalising the use and simply possesion for own use, however i don't think that driving while under the influence of anything should be legal at all. and I include alcohol.

They have that option now. And do. The hurdle they have is the recognition of a standardized roadside test allowed in legislation. (with no loopholes)

Driving under the influence of Alcohol or drugs will STILL be illegal if the drug is decriminalized. No word on any possible minimum limit then ... as it is 0 % now (being illegal and all that)

[Fergus]

:lol::killingme:lol::killingme you do have high expectations. :rolleyes:

I just wanted to learn the difference between 'proven scientific fact' and regular scientific fact. :(



If you want to avoid harm to others then meth is a much better choice than pot :devil2:

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20101106_WOC504_0.gif

Where are all the self righteous P fiends fighting for their favourite drug to be decriminalised? :lol:

[Madness]

Where are all the self righteous P fiends fighting for their favourite drug to be decriminalised? :lol:

Serious question: Who the fuck are you exactly?

[Fergus]

A kiwi biker :niceone:
What else would you like to know?

[blue rider]

I just wanted to learn the difference between 'proven scientific fact' and regular scientific fact. :(



If you want to avoid harm to others then meth is a much better choice than pot :devil2:


Where are all the self righteous P fiends fighting for their favourite drug to be decriminalised? :lol:


(image removed, cause I might get an infraction for excessive re-posting of images)


personally dont give a flying fuck about P or anything else but if you include a pretty graph you should include, method, findings , funding and summary.

Background
Proper assessment of the harms caused by the misuse of drugs can inform policy makers in health, policing, and social care. We aimed to apply multicriteria decision analysis (MCDA) modelling to a range of drug harms in the UK.
Methods
Members of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, including two invited specialists, met in a 1-day interactive workshop to score 20 drugs on 16 criteria: nine related to the harms that a drug produces in the individual and seven to the harms to others. Drugs were scored out of 100 points, and the criteria were weighted to indicate their relative importance.
Findings
MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.
Interpretation
These findings lend support to previous work assessing drug harms, and show how the improved scoring and weighting approach of MCDA increases the differentiation between the most and least harmful drugs. However, the findings correlate poorly with present UK drug classification, which is not based simply on considerations of harm.
Funding
Centre for Crime and Justice Studies (UK).


and just for good measure include a link
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/fulltext


and a more specific graph as to where the damage occurs and why....
http://download.thelancet.com/images/journalimages/0140-6736/PIIS0140673610614626.gr4.lrg.jpg

[SMOKEU]

If they were so interested in the possible health benefits of it they would not argue as they do. Very few seem to want to admit they are only interested in smoking it to get high and couldn't care less about anyone or anything else to do with it.

With people like you around, people who can see sense have to argue their case somehow. You haven't been able to provide any convincing evidence to state why cannabis should be illegal in the first place either.

[mashman]

With people like you around, people who can see sense have to argue their case somehow. You haven't been able to provide any convincing evidence to state why cannabis should be illegal in the first place either.

Fascists only need one side of an argument and as long as that side is erring on the side of caution, it will be enforced by any and all means and you and I will become a criminal by their choice.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3615353600/h9012C082/

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lb7aep7R141qasxiyo1_500.jpg

[blue rider]

and because this thread lacks music



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spkcAjt-TKU

[PrincessBandit]

What did I miss? Where did all the lesbians come from in this thread?

[mashman]

What did I miss? Where did all the lesbians come from in this thread?

Madness started it.

[Akzle]

who decides who is capable? You freely judge others as to being criminals or tossers in other situations yet they surely have the same right as you to decide they are not doing any harm or anything dangerous to others. This is hypocrisy.

...telling the Police to go catch the "real offenders"? Who decides who the "real offenders" are?

If someome beside you, observing you, tells you you are stoned or drunk, or at least showing the effects of what you have ingested, they will be right, and if you claim otherwise you will be wrong.simple way to tell if what you're doing should be illegal/policed/punished
if you're not causing any harm to anyone else, it's not a real offence.
if the someone besides you is a dropkick and says "nah your drunk auu bro" - how can you, obviously being drunk, thust their judgement, huh?


I think it should have an age restriction, obviously, just as with alcohol & tobacco.
or consensual sex. so. 15, right? where do you draw the line.

To my understanding the accuracy of testing in this area is seriously lacking in terms of being able to determine actual impairment, rather than simply Cannabinoids present in the blood.
yes, and some people can function well even when high and/or drunk, so how about "fuck the science" and do the old "roadside impairment tests"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXomHHwha-w


Personally I feel that the laws currently available re: operating machinery or driving are adequate but seldom pursued enough to effect change in people's attitudes.
interesting that you think people's attittudes could be changed by law...(or the enforcement of)

got any evidence it's worked before?

[Akzle]

I could go on forever....if the personal choices do not harm others and society at large, government should butt the feck out and do proper government business..i.e. create a school system affordable for all children regardless of the earning abilitys of their parents, go create good roads regardless of the location in the country, create a health care system the not only treats symtoms but tries to eradicate the disease, upheld a defense of the country and a law enforcment agencuy that is populated by people wishing to serve the community instead of just hoping to get a job with good benefits (yes I have absolutly no respect for people in uniform, excluding nurses and firefighters.)
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol:

there's no money in the cure.

With people like you around, people who can see sense have to argue their case somehow. You haven't been able to provide any convincing evidence to state why cannabis should be illegal in the first place either.

"must spread..."

[blue rider]

What did I miss? Where did all the lesbians come from in this thread?

the boys were having fun? :rolleyes:

[Maha]

Where did all the lesbians come?

Last?....:killingme

[Fergus]

simple way to tell if what you're doing should be illegal/policed/punished
if you're not causing any harm to anyone else, it's not a real offence.



The graphs on the previous page clearly show pot causes harm to others, therefore pot must be a 'real offence'?
Or is the research flawed? one or the other innit?

[Katman]

Why don't you spend a few nights with the Cops on the beat and the ER's at the hospitals, talk to Drs. and surgeons, Paramedics, you know the one's who KNOW about things first hand?



If you seriously think that the vast majority of problems that the "Cops on the beat and the ER's at the hospitals" deal with are due to cannabis use then you're far more fucked in the head than I've ever given you credit for.

[Akzle]

The graphs on the previous page clearly show pot causes harm to others, therefore pot must be a 'real offence'?
Or is the research flawed? one or the other innit?

how does "me smoking dope" = "harm to others" ????

yes. that research is flawed, and entirely out of any context.
i have excel too, i can make graphs...

[PrincessBandit]

how does "me smoking dope" = "harm to others" ????

yes. that research is flawed, and entirely out of any context.
i have excel too, i can make graphs...

I can see how "me smoking dope in my own home where I intend to stay zoned out in my lounge/kitchen/back yard = no harm to others" holds some weight. However "me smoking dope then jumping in my car because I've just realised I'm out of beer/milk/food/weed = no harm to others" doesn't convince me.
Lots of people who get tanked are convinced they're just as good, if not better, drivers than when they're sober. I'm sure those same people are convinced of their superior "awareness" when stoned. I don't want to be in their way on the road...

(And yes, I concede there are varying levels of out-of-it-ness).

[Kickaha]

What did I miss? Where did all the lesbians come from in this thread?
I'm not sure but I dont think there have been enough of them yet

[SMOKEU]

I can see how "me smoking dope in my own home where I intend to stay zoned out in my lounge/kitchen/back yard = no harm to others" holds some weight. However "me smoking dope then jumping in my car because I've just realised I'm out of beer/milk/food/weed = no harm to others" doesn't convince me.
Lots of people who get tanked are convinced they're just as good, if not better, drivers than when they're sober. I'm sure those same people are convinced of their superior "awareness" when stoned. I don't want to be in their way on the road...

(And yes, I concede there are varying levels of out-of-it-ness).

Cannabis has difference effects from alcohol and does not impair users in the same manner.

[Katman]

I can see how "me smoking dope in my own home where I intend to stay zoned out in my lounge/kitchen/back yard = no harm to others" holds some weight. However "me smoking dope then jumping in my car because I've just realised I'm out of beer/milk/food/weed = no harm to others" doesn't convince me.

So no different to alcohol really.

So why should we treat cannabis any differently?

[FJRider]

Cannabis has difference effects from alcohol and does not impair ALL users in the same manner.

There ... fixed it for you ...

[scissorhands]

If a copper believes that someone is under the influence of say P, or precription drugs or coke or any other drug, surely they have an option to get these drivers out of their car and to a hospital..../ police station for testing.
I am all for decriminalising the use and simply possesion for own use, however i don't think that driving while under the influence of anything should be legal at all. and I include alcohol.

Some things are worse than others. Kava kava is a shocker to drive on, tobacco has some culpability. Sugary drinks cause a few accidents, yet no one is tested for sugar or caffeine intoxication. Herbal highs are legal, so presence in the blood has no legal implications, yet you could be high as hell having a panic attack.

The stats for cannabis related vehicle accidents, imply these accident types would be over-represented anyway, cannabis in their system or not. Its more of a class issue.

Discretion regarding allowance for a minimal exposure to cannabis for your average joe/joelene would be sensible policy

[FJRider]

Where did all the lesbians come from ?

Ask your mother dear ..

[Madness]

I'm not sure but I dont think there have been enough of them yet

There's never enough.

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575965_483635501684681_252290481_n.jpg

[Laava]

What did I miss? Where did all the lesbians come from in this thread?

I have been actively discouraging them.

[scissorhands]

mmmm lesbians

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/photo_1329727286887-1-0.jpeg

[mashman]

I have been actively discouraging them.

I must taunt you some more

http://www.yoganonymous.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/lesbian.png

[MSTRS]

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/Q/6/5/fox-lesbian-wedding.jpg

[Madness]

Image of a butch dyke kissing a woman.

FFS man! Next you'll be posting fucking cat pictures in here too.

[Laava]

I must taunt you some more

http://wwwdirty filthy cock teasing lesbian.png

Ahhhhhhhhh. My eyes!

[Fergus]

how does "me smoking dope" = "harm to others" ????


I don't know, I have smoked a lot of weed in the past and don't recall harming others in any way.

But that is just two stoner's anecdotal experience and they aren't worth the letters they're typed with. Research performed by academics is generally more conclusive and holds more sway with TPTB and the average joe than some 'drug addled losers' personal experience...


I generally agree that pot should be legalised but I keep it quiet as I wouldn't want to be associated with the irrational arguments that discredit the cause and make all the supporters look stupid :niceone:

eg:

yes. that research is flawed, and entirely out of any context.
i have excel too, i can make graphs...

You write off this research when it is the exact sort of thing that should be used to support your case: drug laws should be guided with facts (harm caused) not tradition, hysteria or myth...

Quotes from the paper:
""To provide better guidance to policy makers in health, policing, and social care, the harms that drugs cause need to be properly assessed.""
""However, the findings correlate poorly with present UK drug classification, which is not based simply on considerations of harm."" (much like NZ's drug classification)

But you'd rather try to convince people weed should be legal with stoner anecdotes :facepalm:
PS congratulation on your graphing skills. Unfortunately you need good source data for a graph to be worth anything :(

[scissorhands]

What is this cannabis harm?
A mystical blame all?
A typical aloof addict scenario?
A forgetful bumbling unplanable journey thru the 60's revolution?
An angry girlfriend?
A happy snack food vendor?
A poor school report?
A job lost?
Past girlfriends seemed to prefer me stoned, I was preferable

The future of cannabis harm reduction education cannot move forward under prohibition

[Kickaha]

There's never enough.
None of the lesbians I meet in real life look that hot

Past girlfriends seemed to prefer me stoned, I was preferable
Maybe you're a cunt when you're straight

[Laava]

What is this cannabis harm?
A mystical blame all?
A typical aloof addict scenario?
A forgetful bumbling unplanable journey thru the 60's revolution?
An angry girlfriend?
A happy snack food vendor?
A poor school report?
A job lost?
Past girlfriends seemed to prefer me stoned, I was preferable

The future of cannabis harm reduction education cannot move forward under prohibition

See, now, this is why I hate poetry.
I don't get it!

[Katman]

See, now, this is why I hate poetry.
I don't get it!

That doesn't rhyme.

[Madness]

None of the lesbians I meet in real life look that hot.

A bit like the burgers in fast food advertising eh? The poster looks fucking amazing but when you get your order it's just a grease-soaked pile of processed shite. I do keep going back though... one day.

[Mushu]

Since most of the arguments in this thread seem to be bullshit, here's my 2c.

While mostly I do want to be able to just have a blaze while I watch a movie or play playstation, I also (myself) use pot to alleviate pain (better for you than codiene) and to regulate insomnia.

I also have personal experience of how it helps multiple sclerosis sufferers (far better than any prescribed meds), and it's good for nausea (morning sickness / chemotherapy) it can stop / slow the growth of certain tumors.

And given it's illegal and grown by gangs mostly it gives them a huge source of (non taxed) income. And makes it more available to minors.

Still yet to see one good reason why it is illegal.

Currently I don't smoke but only so I can pass piss tests. But as an alternative I currently have a whiskey bottle in my hand (give me back my Mary Jane anyday).

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Madness]

Since most of the arguments in this thread seem to be bullshit, here's my 2c.

While mostly I do want to be able to just have a blaze while I watch a movie or play playstation, I also (myself) use pot to alleviate pain (better for you than codiene) and to regulate insomnia.

I also have personal experience of how it helps multiple sclerosis sufferers (far better than any prescribed meds), and it's good for nausea (morning sickness / chemotherapy) it can stop / slow the growth of certain tumors.

And given it's illegal and grown by gangs mostly it gives them a huge source of (non taxed) income. And makes it more available to minors.

Still yet to see one good reason why it is illegal.

Currently I don't smoke but only so I can pass piss tests. But as an alternative I currently have a whiskey bottle in my hand (give me back my Mary Jane anyday).

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

Suffer from morning sickness a lot, do ya?

[Mushu]

Suffer from morning sickness a lot, do ya?

Well, obviously not, nor have I had bone tumors, cancer and I have been told MS isn't hereditary so I should be relatively safe from that too. That doesn't change the fact that THC is the least invasive and most effective medication for all of the above.

as stated, I have used it to alleviate pain from ligament damage and to regulate insomnia.

Edit: and to get fuckin' high. Oh, and it seems to make girls horny (in my experience)

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[ducatilover]

Since most of the arguments in this thread seem to be bullshit, here's my 2c.

While mostly I do want to be able to just have a blaze while I watch a movie or play playstation, I also (myself) use pot to alleviate pain (better for you than codiene) and to regulate insomnia.

I also have personal experience of how it helps multiple sclerosis sufferers (far better than any prescribed meds), and it's good for nausea (morning sickness / chemotherapy) it can stop / slow the growth of certain tumors.

And given it's illegal and grown by gangs mostly it gives them a huge source of (non taxed) income. And makes it more available to minors.

Still yet to see one good reason why it is illegal.

Currently I don't smoke but only so I can pass piss tests. But as an alternative I currently have a whiskey bottle in my hand (give me back my Mary Jane anyday).

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Legalising it will not, in any way, change how it's available to anyone.
It'll still be grown and sold un-taxed.
MS and pot http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/what-we-know-about-ms/treatments/complementary--alternative-medicine/marijuana/index.aspx
I know of one person in particular, rather close to me, who was diagnosed with MS over 20 years ago so anything that helps is a subject of interest to me.
But, as far as I can tell it only helps when she's under the influence, and that's beyond her financial measures and is beyond any help I can give (that shit's expensive!)

[Laava]

Well, obviously not, nor have I had bone tumors, cancer and I have been told MS isn't hereditary so I should be relatively safe from that too. That doesn't change the fact that THC is the least invasive and most effective medication for all of the above.

as stated, I have used it to alleviate pain from ligament damage and to regulate insomnia.

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My wife has cancer and has had a tumour removed recently. There are no doctors that will tell you that cannabis is the best medication. You don't seriously believe that do you?

[Mushu]

Legalising it will not, in any way, change how it's available to anyone.
It'll still be grown and sold un-taxed.
MS and pot http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/what-we-know-about-ms/treatments/complementary--alternative-medicine/marijuana/index.aspx
I know of one person in particular, rather close to me, who was diagnosed with MS over 20 years ago so anything that helps is a subject of interest to me.
But, as far as I can tell it only helps when she's under the influence, and that's beyond her financial measures and is beyond any help I can give (that shit's expensive!)

seriously, give her some, even if it only works while she's high, she will appreciate a break from the shakes. (depending on her state of advancement, it probably won't stop them but it helps a lot)

And I'm very sorry to hear that, nobody should go through it. it is horrible.

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[Madness]

My wife has cancer and has had a tumour removed recently. There are no doctors that will tell you that cannabis is the best medication. You don't seriously believe that do you?

Doctors generally rely upon what they are taught. That said, my partners Oncologist suggested she take up tobacco again once to cope with stress, he himself a smoker. Truefuckingstory.

[Mushu]

My wife has cancer and has had a tumour removed recently. There are no doctors that will tell you that cannabis is the best medication. You don't seriously believe that do you?

It's not the best medicine for cancer, but it is very good for the nausea caused by chemotherapy.
And as I understand it it only slows / stops growth in some types of tumors.
Also, as implied by madness, doctors are fed the same voodoo pharmacology as the rest of us.

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[Mushu]

Doctors generally rely upon what they are taught. That said, my partners Oncologist suggested she take up tobacco again once to cope with stress, he himself a smoker. Truefuckingstory.

My mother (who had MS) was told not to bother giving up tobacco by her doctor.

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[ducatilover]

seriously, give her some, even if it only works while she's high, she will appreciate a break from the shakes. (depending on her state of advancement, it probably won't stop them but it helps a lot)

And I'm very sorry to hear that, nobody should go through it. it is horrible.

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It is indeed a very sad thing for somebody to be suffering from


She's smoked plenty and doesn't find a huge benefit from it. And in no way as wonderful as the hype makes out
I've been around a shit load of this, and I see not proper supporting evidence that it is beneficial in any way with the exception of pain relief, which can be had legally and to better effect.


http://cifas.us/sites/cifas.drupalgardens.com/files/Marijuana%20and%20medicine%200.pdf
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/what-we-know-about-ms/treatments/complementary--alternative-medicine/marijuana/index.aspx
Two interesting (and factual) articles.

There is also one negative to the relief it can bring, that nobody mentions, except the patients, which gets ignored by the only people willing to promote medi marijuana use:
When the patient is "sober" again and back to their horrible reality, it becomes worse for them. It's fucking horrible to see somebody in that ship

I'm not saying don't do it, or don't recommend it. I'm saying, it's not a wonder drug

[ducatilover]

It's not the best medicine for cancer, but it is very good for the nausea caused by chemotherapy.
And as I understand it it only slows / stops growth in some types of tumors.
Also, as implied by madness, doctors are fed the same voodoo pharmacology as the rest of us.

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I would not reccomend inhaling something with unknown origins, purity and/or possible fungal shit (grow yer own I suppose?) when there are drugs available with synthetic THC in them

edit: I'll expand (like a penis) on that.
Your immune system is weak when you've had/having chemo and it'd be wise not to smoke anything while your immune system is rooted.
But, you could probably have some magic pure stuff?

[Mushu]

It is indeed a very sad thing for somebody to be suffering from


She's smoked plenty and doesn't find a huge benefit from it. And in no way as wonderful as the hype makes out
I've been around a shit load of this, and I see not proper supporting evidence that it is beneficial in any way with the exception of pain relief, which can be had legally and to better effect.


http://cifas.us/sites/cifas.drupalgardens.com/files/Marijuana%20and%20medicine%200.pdf
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/what-we-know-about-ms/treatments/complementary--alternative-medicine/marijuana/index.aspx
Two interesting (and factual) articles.

There is also one negative to the relief it can bring, that nobody mentions, except the patients, which gets ignored by the only people willing to promote medi marijuana use:
When the patient is "sober" again and back to their horrible reality, it becomes worse for them. It's fucking horrible to see somebody in that ship

I'm not saying don't do it, or don't recommend it. I'm saying, it's not a wonder drug

Once a certain point is reached (in the disease) there is no notable difference after they become sober again but I have seen with my own eyes how it can help the obvious symptoms to an amazing degree. my reference was a very advanced case at the time and she was not aware she was stoned. (it took her life 6 months later)

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[ducatilover]

Once a certain point is reached (in the disease) there is no notable difference after they become sober again but I have seen with my own eyes how it can help the obvious symptoms to an amazing degree. my reference was a very advanced case at the time and she was not aware she was stoned. (it took her life 6 months later)

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Well, the other thing here is everyone is different.
She does find it helps pain and stops her from noticing the muscle issues, but it does not stop them (for her) and either way, she cannot afford it and I am not in a position where I can afford it for her.
I'm sorry to hear it mate, it's a fucked up thing MS.

[Mushu]

Legalising it will not, in any way, change how it's available to anyone.
It'll still be grown and sold un-taxed.

Legalising it and selling it taxed with a price to undercut the market, the lower you go the lower gangs would have to go to acually sell it (who would go to the mob for what you can get at the dairy - with guaranteed quality) and how many people are going to grow what you can get at the dairy, I'll grant some will but the black market for pot would shrink significantly.

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[Madness]

...either way, she cannot afford it and I am not in a position where I can afford it for her.
I'm sorry to hear it mate, it's a fucked up thing MS.

You could grow some for her, to ease the pain and for no benefit or use of your own. It literally grows itself and requires little human intervention to ensure top quality. It'd work a treat, so long as nobody dobbed you in for growing a couple of plants. Oh, wait...

[ducatilover]

You could grow some for her, to ease the pain and for no benefit or use of your own. It'd work a treat, so long as nobody dobbed you in for growing a couple of plants. Oh, wait...
I'm pretty sure you'd dob me in for a laugh (I haven't got any kids) and it's a wee bit illegal for me. I'm a pure person and never do anything illegal.

Legalising it and selling it taxed with a price to undercut the market, the lower you go the lower gangs would have to go to acually sell it (who would go to the mob for what you can get at the dairy - with guaranteed quality) and how many people are going to grow what you can get at the dairy, I'll grant some will but the black market for pot would shrink significantly.

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One can only hope eh?

[Madness]

I'm pretty sure you'd dob me in for a laugh.

Doug, I'm hurt.

[Mushu]

Well, the other thing here is everyone is different.
She does find it helps pain and stops her from noticing the muscle issues, but it does not stop them (for her) and either way, she cannot afford it and I am not in a position where I can afford it for her.
I'm sorry to hear it mate, it's a fucked up thing MS.

I will agree that everyone is different, and it wouldn't work for everyone (much like the string if legal meds they had her on to find the mixture for her) but wouldn't you like the option to have a couple of plants so if it works you can take it (even irregularly)

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[ducatilover]

Doug, I'm hurt.
Sorry
Lesbians? http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cgaeR0eEa6GJ/340x.jpg


I will agree that everyone is different, and it wouldn't work for everyone (much like the string if legal meds they had her on to find the mixture for her) but wouldn't you like the option to have a couple of plants so if it works you can take it (even irregularly)

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I think that's a fair point.

Sent from my baccy pouch

[Grubber]

Then there's this bunch of "dozy, brainless twats"...

http://www.mpp.org/outreach/top-50-marijuana-users-list.html

I did happen to notice that they were all one time users. I think they may have thought better of it in the finish and look where it got them.
Show me full time users that are in their positions and i might listen.:niceone:

[Grubber]

Talk about buying the propoganda line .. you bought the whole nine yards of it ... and would you say the same thing about alcohol ???

Don't think so sunshine and yes i would say the same w2ith OVER use of alcohol.
One can have a drink and not be drunk, one cant have one smoke and not be stoned, that's the whole idea of it.
Try not to make out other people are ignorant to support your argument!

[Grubber]

In actual fact, you have to be somewhat of a dozy, brainless twat to reach such a conclusion to begin with.



i would have picked him for a troll,but ther was no green, and no comic sans, and he's promoting the same line fairly consistently.

to answer your question for him: no, because alcohol is legal and politicians know what's best for everybody because i voted for them.

Typical Yarpee. Both of the same origins and both with the same attitude. No wonder your country was glad to see you go.
Personal insults are the best you have??? Must try harder lads!
Like anything you 2 are saying is going to worry me too much.
If it was left to you guys we would be driving around with dope heads on the road killing all our family and friends, and don't try and tell me it makes you drive better, cause that doesn't wash with me at all.

[Grubber]

For every John Britten there's a gazzilion drug-adled losers - most of who seem to post a lot of crap on KB...

My point exactly. The percentages are not high for the users!
I'm figuring you would see the mess it leaves!

[Grubber]

Like John Britten, right? So, tell us Grubber, what have you done with your life? :wait:

This forum isn't long enough to tell you what i have done with my life, seeing as you are about to make assumptions on my part without even knowing me.
I did it all without the help of any drugs too, isn't that amazing!
I have bungy jumped into rivers in most countries and have run with the bulls and i have flown helicopters and aeroplanes.
I have shot bear and driven road trains and raced motorcycle and the list goes on. Not once under the influence of any drugs. Pretty fuckin amazing aye!:niceone:
No i haven't invented or built one from scratch....oh hangon, yes i have. I built a Harley some years ago. Wasn't stoned though.

[Grubber]

And for every straight cop there's a gazillion corrupt ones - but I don't hold that against those people either.

Other way round you dick!

[Grubber]

You've quite obviously spent way too much time (working) in mental institutions. The vast majority of cannabis users I've come across enjoy a smoke at the end of their working day, much like someone would enjoy a glass of beer or wine. These people hold down every day jobs and a lot of them excel in their professions, raise normal healthy children and generally contribute to society much the same as a non-cannabis user.

Maybe it's a case of you simply attract drongos who like to stare at walls, I've never met one personally (except Boris, of course).

How come is it then that every user i have come across is a moron. I doubt very much that your friends are that bloody awesome to be fair if they need a toke every night.

[Edbear]

It is indeed a very sad thing for somebody to be suffering from

She's smoked plenty and doesn't find a huge benefit from it. And in no way as wonderful as the hype makes out
I've been around a shit load of this, and I see not proper supporting evidence that it is beneficial in any way with the exception of pain relief, which can be had legally and to better effect.


http://cifas.us/sites/cifas.drupalgardens.com/files/Marijuana%20and%20medicine%200.pdf
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/what-we-know-about-ms/treatments/complementary--alternative-medicine/marijuana/index.aspx
Two interesting (and factual) articles.

There is also one negative to the relief it can bring, that nobody mentions, except the patients, which gets ignored by the only people willing to promote medi marijuana use:
When the patient is "sober" again and back to their horrible reality, it becomes worse for them. It's fucking horrible to see somebody in that ship

I'm not saying don't do it, or don't recommend it. I'm saying, it's not a wonder drug


I would not reccomend inhaling something with unknown origins, purity and/or possible fungal shit (grow yer own I suppose?) when there are drugs available with synthetic THC in them

edit: I'll expand (like a penis) on that.
Your immune system is weak when you've had/having chemo and it'd be wise not to smoke anything while your immune system is rooted.
But, you could probably have some magic pure stuff?

A voice of reason.


This forum isn't long enough to tell you what i have done with my life, seeing as you are about to make assumptions on my part without even knowing me.
I did it all without the help of any drugs too, isn't that amazing!
I have bungy jumped into rivers in most countries and have run with the bulls and i have flown helicopters and aeroplanes.
I have shot bear and driven road trains and raced motorcycle and the list goes on. Not once under the influence of any drugs. Pretty fuckin amazing aye!:niceone:
No i haven't invented or built one from scratch....oh hangon, yes i have. I built a Harley some years ago. Wasn't stoned though.

Hey on KB there are a few who like to assume they know you. Just makes an Ass of themselves of course.

[Madness]

How come is it then that every user i have come across is a moron. I doubt very much that your friends are that bloody awesome to be fair if they need a toke every night.

All the "users" you met might have thought the same of you, who knows? Where in the post you quoted did I refer to my friends? You're just being a spiteful old man. Now go away, some of us have jobs to do.

[MSTRS]

FFS man! Next you'll be posting fucking cat pictures in here too.

Aaa-nd ... Voila!

http://stuffqueerpeopleneedtoknow.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/gay_kitties.jpg?w=551

[Grubber]

There's plenty of things that are bad for you Ed.

Do you use salt in your food?

Do you drink any soft drinks?

There's nothing to show that light cannabis use is any more harmful than a myriad of other products.

Hell, you don't even have to smoke it.

Last time i looked, salt and soft drinks didn't get you high!

[Katman]

Don't think so sunshine and yes i would say the same w2ith OVER use of alcohol.
One can have a drink and not be drunk, one cant have one smoke and not be stoned, that's the whole idea of it.
Try not to make out other people are ignorant to support your argument!

To suggest that the majority of people limit their alcohol intake to one drink as nothing more than a thirst quencher is ludicrous.

[Grubber]

All the "users" you met might have thought the same of you, who knows? Where in the post you quoted did I refer to my friends? You're just being a spiteful old man. Now go away, some of us have jobs to do.

There ya go assuming again.
So you don't have friends then....starting to all make sense now!
So they are not your friends but people you know?
You should stop smoking that shit, your starting to get a bit lost!

[Katman]

Last time i looked, salt and soft drinks didn't get you high!

Comprehension's not your strongpoint, is it?

[Grubber]

To suggest that the majority of people limit their alcohol intake to one drink as nothing more than a thirst quencher is ludicrous.

Would never suggest that a majority do, but would suggest a fair percentage do, but also not naive enough to think we don't have issues with alcohol also.
My point was, that one CAN have a couple of drinks with no intention of being pissed, you can't make that statement when it comes to dope.

[Grubber]

Comprehension's not your strongpoint, is it?

Oh sorry, did you not spot the difference!
Keep forgetting you're another one who drops down to personal insults when posting!

[Madness]

There ya go assuming again.
So you don't have friends then....starting to all make sense now!
So they are not your friends but people you know?
You should stop smoking that shit, your starting to get a bit lost!

I'm not the one sitting in a shed full of onions "mate". It's no wonder we're stuck in the dark ages with narrow minded fools like yourself around. I can't wait until your generation of brainwashed sheep naturally dies off ( nothing personal ).

[Akzle]

You write off this research when it is the exact sort of thing that should be used to support your case: drug laws should be guided with facts (harm caused) not tradition, hysteria or myth...

yes, but you didn't aswer the question, HOW does person A taking drugs, cause "harm to others"? or even self? asides from the pyhysiological harm caused by injestion (smoke, collapsed veins, whatever)

again, if i smoke a joint and kick you in the balls.. is it the weed's fault, or yours, for making me want to kick you in the balls?
if i shoot some charlie, and go swing a shotgun in a shopping mall, is it the coke's fault?, or the guy that let me into the mall with a shotgun?

it seems you can't qualify or quantify the "harm to others" and "harm to self" will be subjective and vary from person to person...


There are no doctors that will tell you that cannabis is the best medication. You don't seriously believe that do you?
how far afield have you looked for doctors? there are many in the states who would, i believe the french prefer heroin/morphine, though...

many NZ wouldn't tell you, they have a sale to make, but if you got the right one, they wouldn't tell you not to. have you ever asked if cannabis could be of help?

Doug, I'm hurt.
apparently cannabis is good for that. have a joint.


Personal insults are the best you have??? Must try harder lads!

If it was left to you guys we would be driving around with dope heads on the road killing all our family and friends, and don't try and tell me it makes you drive better, cause that doesn't wash with me at all.
where was the insult?
do you realise how many miles are done by people under the influence, and nobody dies!!.
consider that most people who are happy to smoke dope are happy to make decisions for themselves, and thus ignore other "laws", like driving, etc?

[QUOTE=Grubber;1130527429]I...Harley[QUOTE]

aha. now that we know from whence you came...

[SMOKEU]

If it was left to you guys we would be driving around with dope heads on the road killing all our family and friends, and don't try and tell me it makes you drive better, cause that doesn't wash with me at all.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, ay man?

[Grubber]

I'm not the one sitting in a shed full of onions "mate". It's no wonder we're stuck in the dark ages with narrow minded fools like yourself around. I can't wait until your generation of brainwashed sheep naturally dies off ( nothing personal ).

That's ok, cause i can't wait till all the dope heads die off either ( nothing personal) oh who am i kidding, yes it is personal cause i just made that statement directed straight at you!:lol:

[Grubber]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, ay man?

Good lad, i'm not.
Took you long enough to realise that huh. Maybe it's the drugs!

[Madness]

That's ok, cause i can't wait till all the dope heads die off either ( nothing personal) oh who am i kidding, yes it is personal cause i just made that statement directed straight at you!:lol:

Thing is though, Cannabis users aren't restricted to a particular generation. There are Cannabis users in New Zealand from all walks of life from all age groups. There are Cannabis users all around you, just like the Sesame Street song, "People in your neighbourhood". You've had Cannabis users in your own home, probably without figuring it out because you're so damn narrow-minded.

How's the Onions today?

[Grubber]

where was the insult?
do you realise how many miles are done by people under the influence, and nobody dies!!.
consider that most people who are happy to smoke dope are happy to make decisions for themselves, and thus ignore other "laws", like driving, etc?

Best you read your previous posts.


I...Harley[QUOTE]

Not as we know them. S&S motor etc. Project bike just for the hell of it!

aha. now that we know from whence you came...

There ya go again with the assumptions. Typical.
You know nothing fella!

[Katman]

If it was left to you guys we would be driving around with dope heads on the road killing all our family and friends, and don't try and tell me it makes you drive better, cause that doesn't wash with me at all.

Do you have any idea how stupid that post makes you sound?




Keep forgetting you're another one who drops down to personal insults when posting!

What, sort of like this?


Other way round you dick!

[Grubber]

Thing is though, Cannabis users aren't restricted to a particular generation. There are Cannabis users in New Zealand from all walks of life from all age groups. There are Cannabis users all around you, just like the Sesame Street song, "People in your neighbourhood". You've had Cannabis users in your own home, probably without figuring it out because you're so damn narrow-minded.

How's the Onions today?

All around us is the concerning part and "in my home" you say. I can guarantee, without exception, that i haven't. I don't surround myself with people of this nature.
It appears that you may though! It also appears that you are the very problem we are having now days due to your absolute acceptance of mind altering drugs.
Please stay away from my kids!!

[Madness]

All around us is the concerning part and "in my home" you say. I can guarantee, without exception, that i haven't. I don't surround myself with people of this nature.
It appears that you may though! It also appears that you are the very problem we are having now days due to your absolute acceptance of mind altering drugs.
Please stay away from my kids!!

I can guarantee you have. I have no interest in associating with your offspring either, just so we're clear.

Still no word on the Onions?

[Banditbandit]

Would never suggest that a majority do, but would suggest a fair percentage do, but also not naive enough to think we don't have issues with alcohol also.
My point was, that one CAN have a couple of drinks with no intention of being pissed, you can't make that statement when it comes to dope.

Are you trying to say that people who buy alcohol spend quite a lot of money just to quench their thirst? .. when a much cheaper soft drink would do exactly the same thing ... ???

That's just stupid ... people buy alcohol because they like the effect it has on them ... that can be a mild warm buzz or a totally wiped out alcoholic haze ... and anywhere in between ...

As Katman says - this thread makes you sound very stupid ... very stupid indeed.

[Grubber]

Do you have any idea how stupid that post makes you sound?

With you as the responder, i doubt it makes me look stupid at all!


What, sort of like this?

That was a statement of fact, not an insult.
Wait inline if you want a decent insult, cause i feel it's comin!

[Banditbandit]

I can guarantee you have. I have no interest in associating with your offspring either, just so we're clear.



Bwhahahaha .. naaa .. by the sounds of him they'll be from the inbred shallow gene pool and quite stupid ...

[scissorhands]

Fucking religious zealots

[Grubber]

Are you trying to say that people who buy alcohol spend quite a lot of money just to quench their thirst? .. when a much cheaper soft drink would do exactly the same thing ... ???

That's just stupid ... people buy alcohol because they like the effect it has on them ... that can be a mild warm buzz or a totally wiped out alcoholic haze ... and anywhere in between ...

As Katman says - this thread makes you sound very stupid ... very stupid indeed.

Oh and dope has exactly the same result.
Are you telling me that you can have a toke and be just warm and fuzzy?? I say bullshit!
Don't try and strengthen your argument with the "stupid" bit, it makes you look weaker than you probably are!
I have recently witnessed 2 deaths in my industry that were fully related to drug use. We have not had any related to alcholol in a very long time.
Try an argue with me on that one. Perhaps it would be better if you didn't cause 1 of the deaths was the innocent party whose family was very close to mine!
At this moment i would wager it isn't me who is stupid!

[Banditbandit]

Oh and dope has exactly the same result.
Are you telling me that you can have a toke and be just warm and fuzzy?? I say bullshit!

Why are you personalizing this ???



Don't try and strengthen your argument with the "stupid" bit, it makes you look weaker than you probably are!
I have recently witnessed 2 deaths in my industry that were fully related to drug use. We have not had any related to alcholol in a very long time.
Try an argue with me on that one. Perhaps it would be better if you didn't cause 1 of the deaths was the innocent party whose family was very close to mine!
At this moment i would wager it isn't me who is stupid!

Look I agree that using drugs or alcohol at work is a dangerous and stupid thing ... as is driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol ... no argumetn there ...

Your failure to be able to think beyond that point demonstrates your stupidity ...

[Grubber]

Bwhahahaha .. naaa .. by the sounds of him they'll be from the inbred shallow gene pool and quite stupid ...

Bwhahahahaha...naaa...very weak reply. Insult my family at you peril. I'm at least safe in knowing that won't be associating with anyone like you!

[scissorhands]

Look I agree that using drugs or alcohol at work is a dangerous and stupid thing ... as is driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol ... no argumetn there ...

Why did the state institutionalise the smoko break with caffeine and nicotine?
Why do high powered exec's have business lunches with alcohol consumed whilst its bad for the workers?

[Grubber]

Why are you personalizing this ???




Look I agree that using drugs or alcohol at work is a dangerous and stupid thing ... as is driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol ... no argumetn there ...

Your failure to be able to think beyond that point demonstrates your stupidity ...

There ya go with the "stupid" again, simply because i don't adhere to your beliefs! That is the weak part of your argument.
Anyone who doesn't smoke dope whenever or wherever is "stupid" according to you. I beg to differ.
My point is, if it was only as recreation and once or twice a month and it wasn't in your system while you worked or drove, it may be just dandy, but this just isn't the case!

[Grubber]

Why did the state institutionalise the smoko break with caffeine and nicotine?
Why do high powered exec's have business lunches with alcohol consumed whilst its bad for the workers?

Caffiene and nicotine don't impair ones judgement!
Totally agree with you on the high powered business lunches. Can't be placing your work colleagues in one category and yourself in another.

[Grubber]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, ay man?

I would say that your truth and my truth differ somewhat, ay man??

[Banditbandit]

There ya go with the "stupid" again, simply because i don't adhere to your beliefs! That is the weak part of your argument.

No ... that is not my argument. You are presenting stupid arguments and are unable to defend your position with anything other than insults and personal attacks .. and you disregard evidence that supports the arguments of the other side. Your stupidity is demonstrated by these actions.


Anyone who doesn't smoke dope whenever or wherever is "stupid" according to you. I beg to differ.

And so do I ... I never said anyone who does not smoke dope is stupid ... that would be a very stupid position to adopt indeed.


My point is, if it was only as recreation and once or twice a month and it wasn't in your system while you worked or drove, it may be just dandy, but this just isn't the case!

Where did that come from??? There are plenty of people who only smoke occassionally ... and never work or drive with it in their system. Just as some people do with alcohol.

You are stupidly trying to hold onto a position which, in the face of the evidence, is ultimately unsustainable ... and that makes you look stupid ..

[Grubber]

I can guarantee you have. I have no interest in associating with your offspring either, just so we're clear.

Still no word on the Onions?

You apparently know me!
I can garuantee i haven't. I may have inadvertently stood by one at the cash machine yes, but i certainly wouldn't have invited him into my home. don't assume you know on my part.
oh and i am so glad you won't be anywhere near my kids. They will feel much safer knowing that!

You really should sort out your affliction with those Onions while your out toking it up!

[Madness]

You apparently know me!
I can garuantee i haven't. I may have inadvertently stood by one at the cash machine yes, but i certainly wouldn't have invited him into my home. don't assume you know on my part.
oh and i am so glad you won't be anywhere near my kids. They will feel much safer knowing that!

You really should sort out your affliction with those Onions while your out toking it up!

I'll see if that person is happy to blow your guarantee out of the water for you. This I cannot guarantee as they may choose not to divulge their participation in what is ultimately a criminal offence under current laws. That said, I guarantee you are wrong about this, as you are wrong about so many things when it comes to your views on Cannabis.

I'm guessing it's a lot easier to win an argument with an Onion than a Cannabis user. Maybe you should stick to that?

[Grubber]

No ... that is not my argument. You are presenting stupid arguments and are unable to defend your position with anything other than insults and personal attacks .. and you disregard evidence that supports the arguments of the other side. Your stupidity is demonstrated by these actions.



And so do I ... I never said anyone who does not smoke dope is stupid ... that would be a very stupid position to adopt indeed.



Where did that come from??? There are plenty of people who only smoke occassionally ... and never work or drive with it in their system. Just as some people do with alcohol.

You are stupidly trying to hold onto a position which, in the face of the evidence, is ultimately unsustainable ... and that makes you look stupid ..

See there ya go with the stupid again.
You seem to see what you want to see, i have seen something quite different, and it doesn't entice me to welcome drugs of any sort to work or residence.
Don't really see what is stupid about that.
Maybe this is all you have to go on!

[Grubber]

I'll see if that person is happy to blow your guarantee out of the water for you. This I cannot guarantee as they may choose not to divulge their participation in what is ultimately a criminal offence under current laws. That said, I guarantee you are wrong about this, as you are wrong about so many things when it comes to your views on Cannabis.

I'm guessing it's a lot easier to win an argument with an Onion than a Cannabis user. Maybe you should stick to that?

See, there ya go again assuming you know me. This is where you fall down badly. WHAT!!!! Against the law??? Bugger me, who would have thought!
Stop assuming you know me fella!
I am only wrong about things that don't suit your argument it seems!
Believe it or not, some of out here adhere to some standards and i am very protective of my family.
Trust me, no users get past my door!
You obviously won't be invited over for dinner!

[Madness]

See, there ya go again assuming you know me. This is where you fall down badly. WHAT!!!! Against the law??? Bugger me, who would have thought!
Stop assuming you know me fella!
I am only wrong about things that don't suit your argument it seems!
Believe it or not, some of out here adhere to some standards and i am very protective of my family.
Trust me, no users get past my door!
You obviously won't be invited over for dinner!

I've never claimed to have known you. I have met you though & I wasn't particularly interesting in getting to know you better after our brief meeting. Your rants in this thread have proved my summation of you as correct. I'm sure your family love you and you them but honestly, what the fuck does this have to do with the discussion topic?

[Katman]

Believe it or not, some of out here adhere to some standards and i am very protective of my family.


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=3438&attachmentid=204351

Have you checked out your boy's eyes?

You should be sitting him down and asking him some very serious questions.

[Banditbandit]

See there ya go with the stupid again.
You seem to see what you want to see, i have seen something quite different, and it doesn't entice me to welcome drugs of any sort to work or residence.
Don't really see what is stupid about that.
Maybe this is all you have to go on!

It certainly seems very stupid to run in small circles and insist that you are not stupid, while refusing to engage in any meangful way with the ideas and arguments being put forward.

I'll not waste any more time on stupid people ...

[Edbear]

[COLOR="#139922"]yes, but you didn't aswer the question, HOW does person A taking drugs, cause "harm to others"? or even self? asides from the pyhysiological harm caused by injestion (smoke, collapsed veins, whatever)

again, if i smoke a joint and kick you in the balls.. is it the weed's fault, or yours, for making me want to kick you in the balls?
if i shoot some charlie, and go swing a shotgun in a shopping mall, is it the coke's fault?, or the guy that let me into the mall with a shotgun?]

Ummm... A bit of difference, I say it is your fault for kicking and your fault for shooting as it is your chosen response/action. Provocation only provides you with a choice of responses and unprovoked violence is totally your respoonsiblity.

As you were... :rolleyes:

[scissorhands]

Weed mellows you out and your usually a nicer person
Alcohol makes you aggressive and often an asshole

[Katman]

Ummm... A bit of difference, I say it is your fault for kicking and your fault for shooting as it is your chosen response/action. Provocation only provides you with a choice of responses and unprovoked violence is totally your respoonsiblity.


Have you ever heard of the word 'facetious' Ed?

If you have, you clearly don't recognise it.

[SMOKEU]

Are you telling me that you can have a toke and be just warm and fuzzy?? I say bullshit!


Yes. You clearly have no personal experience with pot if you think otherwise, which renders your other arguments invalid.

[mashman]

Last time i looked, salt and soft drinks didn't get you high!

I think any parents wiv young kids would deny that that is true.

[mashman]

Caffiene and nicotine don't impair ones judgement!

They do if you don't maintain your usual dosage.

[ducatilover]

Are you trying to say that people who buy alcohol spend quite a lot of money just to quench their thirst? .. when a much cheaper soft drink would do exactly the same thing ... ???

That's just stupid ... people buy alcohol because they like the effect it has on them ... that can be a mild warm buzz or a totally wiped out alcoholic haze ... and anywhere in between ...



I often do just for a nice drop after being shat on by cows or rolling under cars/bikes/doing a rally.
Mind you, I don't drink to get pissed anymore, the internal organs tell me no, plus it effects ones judgement quite well (bloody fat wimmin!)

More time drunk/stoned = less time doing what I love, and fuck that!
Waste of money on both parts, I'm poor and all my money is for bikes (I know, a bike owner on KB, WTF?)


If caffeine changes my perspective on things, or nicotine, then I am fucked :lol: I drink more tea than the royal whanau

[Edbear]

Have you ever heard of the word 'facetious' Ed?

If you have, you clearly don't recognise it.

Clearly my sense of humour is far too subtle for you. I'm sure Axzle gets it...

[Katman]

Clearly my sense of humour is far too subtle for you. I'm sure Axzle gets it...

No Ed, Axzle's sense of humour flew straight over your head.

[Edbear]

No Ed, Axzle's sense of humour flew straight over your head.

Not at all, but as I said, too subtle for you. :weird: However please don't let me stop you from making an Ass of yourself. Mind you I don't think anyone could stop that from happening.

[Katman]

Not at all, but as I said, too subtle for you. :weird: However please don't let me stop you from making an Ass of yourself. Mind you I don't think anyone could stop that from happening.

No Ed, Axzle made a funny and you took it seriously.

No need to be embarassed.

[blackdog]

I can garuantee i haven't. (sic)

Dinner was delicious, a nice cold Speights together and all while I was warm and fuzzy on cannabis. Sorry dude.

Guess I'm not getting invited back now.

[onearmedbandit]

Are you telling me that you can have a toke and be just warm and fuzzy?? I say bullshit!


Yup I'm telling you exactly that. Sure I could overindulge. But a toke or two or three eases my pain levels and makes me warm and fuzzy.

[Fergus]

yes, but you didn't aswer the question, HOW does person A taking drugs, cause "harm to others"? or even self? asides from the pyhysiological harm caused by injestion (smoke, collapsed veins, whatever)

again, if i smoke a joint and kick you in the balls.. is it the weed's fault, or yours, for making me want to kick you in the balls?
if i shoot some charlie, and go swing a shotgun in a shopping mall, is it the coke's fault?, or the guy that let me into the mall with a shotgun?

it seems you can't qualify or quantify the "harm to others" and "harm to self" will be subjective and vary from person to person...


Of course it will vary from person to person, that doesn't make it any less measurable.
Here's the criteria FYI



Evaluation criteria and their definitions

Drug-specific mortality
Intrinsic lethality of the drug expressed as ratio of lethal dose and standard dose (for adults)

Drug-related mortality
The extent to which life is shortened by the use of the drug (excludes drug-specific mortality)—eg, road traffic accidents, lung cancers, HIV, suicide

Drug-specific damage
Drug-specific damage to physical health—eg, cirrhosis, seizures, strokes, cardiomyopathy, stomach ulcers

Drug-related damage
Drug-related damage to physical health, including consequences of, for example, sexual unwanted activities and self-harm, blood-borne viruses, emphysema, and damage from cutting agents

Dependence
The extent to which a drug creates a propensity or urge to continue to use despite adverse consequences (ICD 10 or DSM IV)

Drug-specific impairment of mental functioning
Drug-specific impairment of mental functioning—eg, amfetamine-induced psychosis, ketamine intoxication

Drug-related impairment of mental functioning
Drug-related impairment of mental functioning—eg, mood disorders secondary to drug-user's lifestyle or drug use

Loss of tangibles
Extent of loss of tangible things (eg, income, housing, job, educational achievements, criminal record, imprisonment)

Loss of relationships
Extent of loss of relationship with family and friends

Injury
Extent to which the use of a drug increases the chance of injuries to others both directly and indirectly—eg, violence (including domestic violence), traffic accident, fetal harm, drug waste, secondary transmission of blood-borne viruses

Crime
Extent to which the use of a drug involves or leads to an increase in volume of acquisitive crime (beyond the use-of-drug act) directly or indirectly (at the population level, not the individual level)

Environmental damage
Extent to which the use and production of a drug causes environmental damage locally—eg, toxic waste from amfetamine factories, discarded needles

Family adversities
Extent to which the use of a drug causes family adversities—eg, family breakdown, economic wellbeing, emotional wellbeing, future prospects of children, child neglect

International damage
Extent to which the use of a drug in the UK contributes to damage internationally—eg, deforestation, destabilisation of countries, international crime, new markets

Economic cost
Extent to which the use of a drug causes direct costs to the country (eg, health care, police, prisons, social services, customs, insurance, crime) and indirect costs (eg, loss of productivity, absenteeism)

Community
Extent to which the use of a drug creates decline in social cohesion and decline in the reputation of the community

CD 10=International Classification of Diseases, tenth revision. DSM IV=Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth revision


It's a bit more objective than some of the bizarre arguments in this thread:

"I don't think I harm people when stoned so it's safe for everyone"
"I know of two drug related deaths and no alcohol related deaths therefore drugs kill people and alcohol doesn't"
"If you haven't smoked pot your opinion on the topic is worthless"
"it has valid medicinal properties so it should be sold at dairies"

[Edbear]

Of course it will vary from person to person, that doesn't make it any less measurable.
Here's the criteria FYI

It's a bit more objective than some of the bizarre arguments in this thread:

"I don't think I harm people when stoned so it's safe for everyone"
"I know of two drug related deaths and no alcohol related deaths therefore drugs kill people and alcohol doesn't"
"If you haven't smoked pot your opinion on the topic is worthless"
"it has valid medicinal properties so it should be sold at dairies"

Hey! Everyone on KB is an expert, doncha know? :nono: Except of course, anyone who disagrees with the experts... :rolleyes:

[Mushu]

This is sounding more and more like a religious debate, the uk crime and justice studies referred to above is interesting but I would like to see the research done by someone a bit more impartial.

Perhaps we should ask everybody where they stand on religion, that way we can ignore anybody who is not athiest or at least agnostic, because anybody that believes in the angry man in the sky is incapable of either practical research or thinking for themselves.

Edit: Whilst looking for myself within a couple of minutes I found this in a press release on the uk crime and justice site:
Among Professor Nutt's recommendations are:

1. Stopping the `artificial separation of alcohol and tobacco as non-drugs'. It will only be possible to assess the real harms of illicit drugs when set alongside the harms of other drugs `that people know and use', he writes.

2. Improving the public's general understanding of relative harms. He had previously compared the risks of taking ecstasy over the risks of horse-riding, he writes, because media reporting `gives the impression that ecstasy is a much more dangerous drug than it is'.

3. The provision of `more accurate and credible' information on drugs and the harms they cause. Drug classification based on the best research evidence would `be a powerful educational tool'. Basing classification on the desire `to give messages other than those relating to relative harms... does greater damage to the educational message', he argues.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Mushu]

I invite anyone here (both sides of the debate) to watch Penn & Tellers Bullshit, particularly season 2 episode 4, while their opinion is obvious, their research is undeniable

Also, The Union and Superhigh me

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Madness]

Hey! Everyone on KB is an expert, doncha know? :nono: Except of course, anyone who disagrees with Me... :rolleyes:

Fixed that for ya Ed.

[Grubber]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=3438&attachmentid=204351

Have you checked out your boy's eyes?

You should be sitting him down and asking him some very serious questions.

what a fuckin dweeb!
Go shoot me, he blinked!
Un fuckin believable, like i said before, you make a shot at my family, you do it at your peril you fuckin prick.
Happy to give you my address if you wish to call in cunt!
That's my Grandson, not that it's any of your fuckin business.
You are now on IGNORE!

[Katman]

You are now on IGNORE!

In capital letters?

:cry:

[Grubber]

Yes. You clearly have no personal experience with pot if you think otherwise, which renders your other arguments invalid.

You know this how???

[Grubber]

Dinner was delicious, a nice cold Speights together and all while I was warm and fuzzy on cannabis. Sorry dude.

Guess I'm not getting invited back now.

And if id known, you wouldn't have been invited the first time, and yes the last.
Then you hopped on your fuckin bike and rode home. Drinking and smoking dope and you ride home. Pratt!
Awesome fella, well fuckin done. Just the type i don't need.
See everyone, you try to help someone out by inviting them into your home when they need a meal and a bed and this is what ya get.
Never trust a dope head, i think i have already said that aye!!

[Grubber]

Yup I'm telling you exactly that. Sure I could overindulge. But a toke or two or three eases my pain levels and makes me warm and fuzzy.

I believe you have another agenda, i can sympathise with that!

[Grubber]

I think any parents wiv young kids would deny that that is true.

Oh please, now you cant even tell the difference between a high and a sugar rush in a kid.
Try again! this time at least try and be sensible about it and then i might be prepared to at least read another post.

[Katman]

Drinking and smoking dope and you ride home.
See everyone, you try to help someone out by inviting them into your home when they need a meal and a bed and this is what ya get.


Really? Did he have the beer and the smoke before he left in the morning?

[Grubber]

They do if you don't maintain your usual dosage.

In you that may be, but in the norm it would definitely not.

[SMOKEU]

You know this how???

Because if you had ever had a sesh, you wouldn't be proving to everyone what an idiot you are by making such stupid comments.



Never trust a dope head, i think i have already said that aye!!

There's a big difference between a casual toker and "dope head", just like there is a difference between a casual drinker and an alcoholic. If that's too difficult for you to comprehend, then you're clearly not as smart as you think you are.

[Banditbandit]

i might be prepared to at least read another post.


Read !!!! I'll bet that will be a new experience for you !!!

[ducatilover]

I invite anyone here (both sides of the debate) to watch Penn & Tellers Bullshit, particularly season 2 episode 4, while their opinion is obvious, their research is undeniable

Also, The Union and Superhigh me

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2
Penn and Teller are awesome, but their research isn't always that superb (like anything on teh tellyvisionthing). I'll have to look that episode up though, I don't remember it. Bloody good entertainment

[mashman]

Oh please, now you cant even tell the difference between a high and a sugar rush in a kid.
Try again! this time at least try and be sensible about it and then i might be prepared to at least read another post.

A sugar rush isn't a high? Come on. Highs aren't all just sink into the couch you know. As I've said before, I'm up and ready to do something, pretty much anything, even clothes shopping with the missis and that's saying something. It's an artificially induced state that messes with the head. Isn't that what a high is? It's more akin to speed and it's perfectly legal and generally to the amusement of the parents... and because it's contrary to your argument you dismiss it out of hand? Put it this way. If your kid rides a bike in the paddock, would you let them if they were in sugar rush city?

[mashman]

In you that may be, but in the norm it would definitely not.

Now you're being silly. Get a smoker to go without a cig for 4 hours and ask them if they feel more coherent than they did 4 hours ago. Simple experiment that you can do with anyone that you know that smokes cigarettes. And how often do you here people grumbling about the need for a coffee and that they can't really get up to speed without one. I think you're confusing the norm with guesswork. Ask the questions of "normal" people and see what they say.

[ducatilover]

Now you're being silly. Get a smoker to go without a cig for 4 hours and ask them if they feel more coherent than they did 4 hours ago. Simple experiment that you can do with anyone that you know that smokes cigarettes. And how often do you here people grumbling about the need for a coffee and that they can't really get up to speed without one. I think you're confusing the norm with guesswork. Ask the questions of "normal" people and see what they say.

I can go without a fag for 4 hours without coherency issues. But there are many who become grumpy plonkers after such time.
But, do not deny a guy of his coffee Mashy, that's just fucked up mate. :lol:

(I'm generally useless in the morning, pre-dilmah)

[Katman]

I can go without a fag for 4 hours without coherency issues.

What are you like after 4 days?

[mashman]

I can go without a fag for 4 hours without coherency issues. But there are many who become grumpy plonkers after such time.
But, do not deny a guy of his coffee Mashy, that's just fucked up mate. :lol:

(I'm generally useless in the morning, pre-dilmah)

:rofl: impressive... I definitely fall into the grumpy plonker category and it feels as though I've taken tramadol.
:
heh, same as my missis. Don't fuck with the scots lass until she's had her morning fix.

[ducatilover]

What are you like after 4 days? I find the cravings very similar to feeling a bit hungry. I have more issues going without a cuppa for a day or two, funny how I get worse caffeine withdraws than nicotine ones eh?


:rofl: impressive... I definitely fall into the grumpy plonker category and it feels as though I've taken tramadol.
:
heh, same as my missis. Don't fuck with the scots lass until she's had her morning fix.
I must be a bit lucky then :niceone:
One does not simply remove the caffeine source

[Grubber]

Now you're being silly. Get a smoker to go without a cig for 4 hours and ask them if they feel more coherent than they did 4 hours ago. Simple experiment that you can do with anyone that you know that smokes cigarettes. And how often do you here people grumbling about the need for a coffee and that they can't really get up to speed without one. I think you're confusing the norm with guesswork. Ask the questions of "normal" people and see what they say.

They are coherant, not high, and best of all it's only addiction and not a high.
The norm would not mean being dependant. Still no rush or high invloved.

[Katman]

They are coherant, not high, and best of all it's only addiction and not a high.


Are you trying to suggest that blackdog wasn't coherent.

[Fast Eddie]

Yup I'm telling you exactly that. Sure I could overindulge. But a toke or two or three eases my pain levels and makes me warm and fuzzy.
No doubt, I approve and agree


Are you telling me that you can have a toke and be just warm and fuzzy?? I say bullshit!
..You may say that, but you don't actually know do you?.. Are you a current or previous cannabis user that has experienced first hand the effects of different dosage amounts ?



and it doesn't entice me to welcome drugs of any sort to work or residence.
I take it you and you're entire family don't intake caffeine in any shape or form, or alcohol or any sort of panadol, neurofen etc.. As they are all considered drugs.


.. one CAN have a couple of drinks with no intention of being pissed, you can't make that statement when it comes to dope.

Whether you intend to get pissed or not, drink a couple of beers and that will change your blood alcohol level, whether you're intending for it to do this or not is beside point. Alcohol in any amount will have some effect on you. The old excuse to the cops when one fails an alcohol checkpoint - "Oh I'm not drunk, I feel sober as, I've only had a few!"

So yes, you can make the exact same statement when it comes to pot. You can have 1 spot or a toke and not intend to be munted for the rest of the afternoon watching re runs of South Park. You wouldn't know if you aren't a regular user. Lots of factors come into play such as tolerance and experience and environment. But you can have small amount and feel less effect. You have a larger amount you feel more of an effect. Almost seems.. logical..


i can't wait till all the dope heads die off either
You won't see it in your lifetime..


There druggies, there wont be an inheritance.
They're..


Bit hard to lecture morals when ya got none.
replace the word 'morals' in that sentence with 'logic and reason' and I feel that I am watching you try!

[SMOKEU]

They are coherant, not high, and best of all it's only addiction and not a high.
The norm would not mean being dependant. Still no rush or high invloved.

If there was no "rush or high" from tobacco, then why would anyone start smoking tobacco in the first place?


Sent from my bong resin.

[mashman]

I must be a bit lucky then :niceone:
One does not simply remove the caffeine source

cunt :innocent:


They are coherant, not high, and best of all it's only addiction and not a high.
The norm would not mean being dependant. Still no rush or high invloved.

They're anything but coherent. Half the time they can barely string a sentence together and you can see by the size of their pupils that they're "on something". It's a high and fuck they're grumpy when they have a come down eh.
I still dispute that the norm is people not having concentration issues given conversations I've had with cig smokers and coffee drinkers.

[Edbear]

Fixed that for ya Ed.

Oh come on, you can do better than that. Boringly predictable! :spanking:


In capital letters?

:cry:

Seriously bad form! Posting family pics of innocents and making stupid comments should be infracted!


:rofl: impressive... I definitely fall into the grumpy plonker category and it feels as though I've taken tramadol.
:
heh, same as my missis. Don't fuck with the scots lass until she's had her morning fix.

Hey, Tramadol is what keeps me vertical! :Pokey:

[Katman]

Seriously bad form! Posting family pics of innocents and making stupid comments should be infracted!


What? It's in a publicly viewable album shitforbrains.



Hey, Tramadol is what keeps me vertical! :Pokey:

So it's only prescription drugs that you're addicted to then?

[Edbear]

What? It's in a publicly viewable album shitforbrains.

So it's only prescription drugs that you're addicted to then?

Leave innocent children out of your angst! Say what you like about adult members but even someone as stupid as you should know you were out of order! Do you have any morals at all?

[Katman]

Leave innocent children out of your angst! Say what you like about adult members but even someone as stupid as you should know you were out of order! Do you have any morals at all?

You're a sensitive wee thing, aren't you?

If you and Grubber can't see the obvious intended humour in my comment, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[onearmedbandit]

If its in a public viewable area then it's fair play. We've been down this path before with WINJA and Grahameboy (think that was his name).

[Edbear]

You're a sensitive wee thing, aren't you?

We will let the mods decide shall we?

[Mushu]

lol, I vote this the most entertaining thread currently on KB especially with Grubber making a complete fool of himself, doesn't the fact that you couldn't tell the other guy was stoned challenge your perception of us 'druggies' although I did enjoy the claim no stoners have ever been in your house getting thrown in your face, how many more do you think have made it inside?
But my favorite is your reaction to the comment on that photo, admittedly the comment was a little bad form but your reply was hilarious, proving your both an idiot and a keyboard warrior, keep it up.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Edbear]

If its in a public viewable area then it's fair play. We've been down this path before with WINJA and Grahameboy (think that was his name).

Sorry but I personally feel his insinuations were out of order where an innocent child is involved and can understand Grubber's reaction.

[Mushu]

If its in a public viewable area then it's fair play. We've been down this path before with WINJA and Grahameboy (think that was his name).

Must've missed that one, link?

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[mashman]

Hey, Tramadol is what keeps me vertical! :Pokey:

The viagra not doing it for you anymore eh.

[Katman]

Sorry but I personally feel his insinuations were out of order where an innocent child is involved and can understand Grubber's reaction.

My insinuations?

Fucks sake Ed, the kid's in fucking nappies. Do you actually think I'm suggesting he's just finished a sesh?

Fuck me, there's some fucking retards in this place.

[imdying]

Sorry but I personally feel his insinuations were out of order where an innocent child is involved and can understand Grubber's reaction.

Best you boycott the site then :niceone:

[Edbear]

The viagra not doing it for you anymore eh.

Ha ha! Never needed that stuff... :rolleyes:

Nah, it's just that doing stuff hurts these days so I take Tramadol as the least addictive painkiller that works. If I did less, I'd take less but sometimes I don't have the time to go and lie down so have to take it to keep going.

[onearmedbandit]

Never trust a dope head, i think i have already said that aye!!

How do you define a 'dope head'? Just interested when people use phrases like this.

[gwigs]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-iYY2FQHFwE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Heres a nice tune to cheer up some of you ....:lol:

[SMOKEU]

Ha ha! Never needed that stuff... :rolleyes:

Nah, it's just that doing stuff hurts these days so I take Tramadol as the least addictive painkiller that works. If I did less, I'd take less but sometimes I don't have the time to go and lie down so have to take it to keep going.

I hope you know that (compared to cannabis) Tramadol is a highly addictive, dangerous drug with the real potential for severe side effects. I've been prescribed it before, and not being able to take a decent shit when I was on it was one of those side effects (among others).

I'm not against Tramadol either as I did quite enjoy the few days that I was on it overall, but it's good to put things into context before judging others.

But everything I just said must be a load of shit, because we all know prescription drugs are very safe because it's legal and the government told me so.

[Edbear]

I hope you know that (compared to cannabis) Tramadol is a highly addictive, dangerous drug with the real potential for severe side effects. I've been prescribed it before, and not being able to take a decent shit when I was on it was one of those side effects (among others).

I'm not against Tramadol either as I did quite enjoy the few days that I was on it overall, but it's good to put things into context before judging others.

But everything I just said must be a load of shit, because we all know prescription drugs are very safe because it's legal and the government told me so.

Pain managgement is a tricky subject as painklillers don't work the same for everyone. Some have had very bad reactions to Tramadol as have many to a lot of different drugs. I tolerate Tramadol very well with minimal side effectys and very effective pain control. It is only very mildly addictive and if I take things easy, can go without it for long periods. I'm not addicted to it as I was to DHC, for example years ago. That stuff is not good for me at all, now.

I haven't judged or tried to force my opinion on anyone and if you re-read my posts, I am very open to having Cannabis developed as a painkiller if it is efective and on par with other painkillers. My criticisms have been of those who use spurious arguments in an attempt to justify the fact that all they want is to smoke dope and get the effects from doing so, without legal consequences.

[imdying]

<img src="http://makeameme.org/media/created/overly-manly-man-pain-pills-you-mean.jpg" />

[Madness]

And if id known, you wouldn't have been invited the first time, and yes the last.
Then you hopped on your fuckin bike and rode home. Drinking and smoking dope and you ride home. Pratt!
Awesome fella, well fuckin done. Just the type i don't need.
See everyone, you try to help someone out by inviting them into your home when they need a meal and a bed and this is what ya get.
Never trust a dope head, i think i have already said that aye!!

So. Now we have established that you wouldn't know a Cannabis user if they were right under your nose, let alone under your own roof. I suppose an apology from you is out of the question?

The interesting thing is that you claim he had been drinking (I'm going to assume alcohol) and you knew this previously. This suggests to me that you probably accept that it's alright to consume maybe just a little alcohol before operating a motor vehicle, or perhaps a bit more if consumed the night before. I have another mindfuck of a newsflash for you sunshine, ready for it? The same applies with Cannabis use. Before replying, please consider the fact that you've been shown to be the diddle-face that you are once already today - take a deep breath before hitting reply maybe?

[Madness]

Sorry but I personally feel his insinuations were out of order where an innocent child is involved and can understand Grubber's reaction.

If you feel so strongly about it you might want to consider leaving. This is a site for motorcyclists, after all.

Edit: Sorry, I see now that this has already been suggested. If it helps, I'll pay you $20.

[mashman]

Ha ha! Never needed that stuff... :rolleyes:

Nah, it's just that doing stuff hurts these days so I take Tramadol as the least addictive painkiller that works. If I did less, I'd take less but sometimes I don't have the time to go and lie down so have to take it to keep going.

Horny auld divil.

Well I got my Tramadol this morning. Do you drive after taking them? Do you find they make you feel slow/sluggish/thinking twice before doing things?

[Madness]

Do you drive after taking them? Do you find they make you feel slow/sluggish/thinking twice before doing things?

Of course he doesn't Mashy, that would be exceedingly irresponsible. Besides, if he does, how the hell could he maintain his position atop the worlds biggest horse when posting in this thread?

[mashman]

Of course he doesn't Mashy, that would be exceedingly irresponsible. Besides, if he does, how the hell could he maintain his position atop the worlds biggest horse when posting in this thread?

He could maintain his position using exactly the same logic as you do riding your rainbow pony.

[Madness]

He could maintain his position using exactly the same logic as you do riding your rainbow pony.

Only problem there is that giant horses don't gallop backwards very well.

[mashman]

Only problem there is that giant horses don't gallop backwards very well.

perhaps it'll stagger sideways more graciously.

[mashman]

Ahhhhhhhhh. My eyes!

Face your fear... I mean do I have to send this pair to your place until you get over your fear

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8bpn1dn761qlrdpro1_500.jpg

[Madness]

perhaps it'll stagger sideways more graciously.

Sideways in circles probably, never directly backwards.

[mashman]

Sideways in circles probably, never directly backwards.

I'm getting some very strange imagery at the moment... dunno if it's the pills, but you on your rainbow pony keeps getting smacked in the face by the dick of the big horse. Subconscious metaphor? or an overactive imagination? either way, I don't want these visions anymore mummy. Make the bad men go away.

[Madness]

I'm getting some very strange imagery at the moment... dunno if it's the pills, but you on your rainbow pony keeps getting smacked in the face by the dick of the big horse. Subconscious metaphor? or an overactive imagination? either way, I don't want these visions anymore mummy. Make the bad men go away.

You'll get that with pharmaceuticals, perhaps you should have stuck to natural remedies? By the way, if I have dreams tonight (which is highly likely) that involve Ed riding a horse while said horses dick is slapping me in the face I'm coming after you :mad:

[mashman]

You'll get that with pharmaceuticals, perhaps you should have stuck to natural remedies? By the way, if I have dreams tonight (which is highly likely) that involve Ed riding a horse while said horses dick is slapping me in the face I'm coming after you :mad:

Ow. laughing hurts even loaded with pills. You're probably right in that I should have gone erbal, in fact they'd probably work very well together as I don't particularly like the tramadol, too "spacey".

[Madness]

Ow. laughing hurts even loaded with pills. You're probably right in that I should have gone erbal, in fact they'd probably work very well together as I don't particularly like the tramadol, too "spacey".

Definitely don't drive on it, or ride horses of any size.

[blackdog]

Definitely don't drive on it, or ride horses of any size.

MX5's are ok though. And rocking horses.

[Madness]

MX5's are ok though.

I cannot comment.

[mashman]

Definitely don't drive on it, or ride horses of any size.

I gotz to go into work for a meeting tomorrow, getting a lift in, but it might be interesting to see how they affect my working performance.

[Laava]

Face your fear... I mean do I have to send this pair to your place until you get over your fear

scary tattooed lesbo babes

Yes. Send them. I have decided to face my fear.

[Edbear]

Ow. laughing hurts even loaded with pills. You're probably right in that I should have gone erbal, in fact they'd probably work very well together as I don't particularly like the tramadol, too "spacey".

Definitely if they affect you that way, you shouldn't drive or operate machinery. If the side effects bother you, you can always try something else. Drs. can only prescribe what they think will work, but as I said, some have had very bad reactions to Tramadol, my daughter, for one. Getting the right painkliller for you is a trial and error process.

For me, I am fine on Tramadol and Morphine, but I wouldn't trust myself to walk, let alone drive, on Ketamine. Unfortunately, Panadol isn't strong enough.

[Madness]

For me, I am fine on Tramadol and Morphine, but I wouldn't trust myself to walk, let alone drive, on Ketamine. Unfortunately, Panadol isn't strong enough.

So you drive a car on public roads whilst under the influence of either Tramadol or Morphine, or both at once perhaps?

Very interesting stuff Ed, thanks for sharing.

[Edbear]

So you drive a car on public roads whilst under the influence of either Tramadol or Morphine, or both at once perhaps?

Very interesting stuff Ed, thanks for sharing.

Nice try at screwing my post, but of course you only fool yourself and other idiots that you have a valid point. :doh:

[Madness]

Nice try at screwing my post, but of course you only fool yourself and other idiots that you have a valid point. :doh:

So you never drive a motor vehicle whilst under the influence of Tramadol or Morphine then? You didn't answer the question Mashy put to you earlier (I think your horse was galloping sideways at the time) so if I've grasped the wrong end of the horses cock, please forgive me.

Do you mind clarifying the point, explicitly, just so there's no confusion moving forwards?

[Edbear]

Definitely if they affect you that way, you shouldn't drive or operate machinery. If the side effects bother you, you can always try something else. Drs. can only prescribe what they think will work, but as I said, some have had very bad reactions to Tramadol, my daughter, for one. Getting the right painkliller for you is a trial and error process.

For me, I am fine on Tramadol and Morphine, but I wouldn't trust myself to walk, let alone drive, on Ketamine. Unfortunately, Panadol isn't strong enough.

If you can't get this post right, there is no hope for you. :facepalm:


So you never drive a motor vehicle whilst under the influence of Tramadol or Morphine then? You didn't answer the question Mashy put to you earlier (I think your horse was galloping sideways at the time) so if I've grasped the wrong end of the horses cock, please forgive me.

Do you mind clarifying the point, explicitly, just so there's no confusion moving forwards?

I also drive under the influence of coffee, tea, Chai, and sugary foods.

[Madness]

If you can't get this post right, there is no hope for you. :facepalm:

I also drive under the influence of coffee, tea, Chai, and sugary foods.

So I did have it right the first time. You feel that it's alright for you to drive a motor vehicle whilst under the influence of Tramadol but you find it abhorrent that somebody might do the same thing after having had a little puff of Cannabis. Pure fucking gold Ed, this would have to be one of your finest moments on KB, ever.

[mashman]

Definitely if they affect you that way, you shouldn't drive or operate machinery. If the side effects bother you, you can always try something else. Drs. can only prescribe what they think will work, but as I said, some have had very bad reactions to Tramadol, my daughter, for one. Getting the right painkliller for you is a trial and error process.

For me, I am fine on Tramadol and Morphine, but I wouldn't trust myself to walk, let alone drive, on Ketamine. Unfortunately, Panadol isn't strong enough.

I'll stick with what I have and deal with the side effects. Probably only have to take them for a week or two and the effects aren't ghastly, just uncomfortable and a little unpredictable when a "rush" decides to kick in.

Do you drive on Tramadol and Morphine? I've never had Morphine, so if you have any I'll trade for some Trams man :D

[Edbear]

So I did have it right the first time. You feel that it's alright for you to drive a motor vehicle whilst under the influence of Tramadol and/or Morphine but you find it abhorrent that somebody might do the same thing after having had a little puff of Cannabis. Pure fucking gold Ed, this would have to be one of your finest moments on KB, ever.

You've had it wrong from the start but are too thick to see it. Every time you are challenged to back yourself you pull out with the weakest of excuses. I have asked you before to quote me, but you won't because you can't.

You are simply a lame hater and your agenda is plain for all to see, oh, except for Katman, he's just a thick as you are.

[Madness]

You've had it wrong from the start but are too thick to see it. Every time you are challenged to back yourself you pull out with the weakest of excuses. I have asked you before to quote me, but you won't because you can't.

You are simply a lame hater and your agenda is plain for all to see, oh, except for Katman, he's just a thick as you are.

Sideways horse is galloping sideways again Ed. It's probably the drugs talking though so I won't hold a grudge.

[Edbear]

I'll stick with what I have and deal with the side effects. Probably only have to take them for a week or two and the effects aren't ghastly, just uncomfortable and a little unpredictable when a "rush" decides to kick in.

Do you drive on Tramadol and Morphine? I've never had Morphine, so if you have any I'll trade for some Trams man :D

Only on Tramadol because it doesn't affect me adversely. I made the comment that I would not trust myself on Ketamine. Even though I tolerate Morphine well I won't drive on it either. If I am in that much pain, I'd not be safe behind the wheel anyway.

[Madness]

Only on Tramadol because it doesn't affect me adversely. I made the comment that I would not trust myself on Ketamine. Even though I tolerate Morphine well I won't drive on it either. If I am in that much pain, I'd not be safe behind the wheel anyway.

You got the horse to gallop straight, well done! I've amended my post above but you're still a fucking hypocrite of the highest order.

[Edbear]

Sideways horse is galloping sideways again Ed. It's probably the drugs talking though so I won't hold a grudge.

Well, you're the one who loves to make baseless allegations with no care to back them up. What else would everyone think?

Refusing to support your slander, knowing you can't, just makes you irrelevant and your opinions worthless.

[mashman]

Only on Tramadol because it doesn't affect me adversely. I made the comment that I would not trust myself on Ketamine. Even though I tolerate Morphine well I won't drive on it either. If I am in that much pain, I'd not be safe behind the wheel anyway.

fuckin druggie driver :shifty:. I wouldn't trust myself behind the wheel on Tramadol to be honest, but as you say it all depends on how it affects one. And I take it you're a double pill man?

[Mushu]

For me, I am fine on Tramadol and Morphine, but I wouldn't trust myself to walk, let alone drive, on Ketamine. Unfortunately, Panadol isn't strong enough.

Sorry, but to me this reads that you wouldn't drive on Ketamine but would happily drive on either Tremadol or morphine, I can't comment on tremadol, but if you go anywhere near a car on morphine you deserve to be shot, I don't even like the idea of driving on codiene (i had to once, in an emergency) I would much rather use cannabis for pain if I intend to drive.

Edit: just saw the above post where you clarify the statement I quote here, please ignore the claim you should be shot.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Madness]

Do you drive on Tramadol and Morphine?


Only on Tramadol because it doesn't affect me adversely.


Refusing to support your slander, knowing you can't, just makes you irrelevant and your opinions worthless.

You've just shown yourself up to be the biggest hypocrite on KB so who's irrelevant & has worthless opinions? Oh, that's right - that would be you.

This thread has been like having all your christmases at once. I'd like to thank Ed & Grubber for providing us with such quality entertainment today - you both deserve an Oscar. I'd smoke a joint in your honour but that would be illegal.

:clap:

[mashman]

You've just shown yourself up to be the biggest hypocrite on KB so who's irrelevant & has worthless opinions? Oh, that's right - that would be you.

This thread has been like having all your christmases at once. I'd like to thank Ed & Grubber for providing us with such quality entertainment today - you both deserve an Oscar. I'd smoke a joint in your honour but that would be illegal.

:clap:

Funnily enough I fail to see it that way... but each to their own.

[Mushu]

This thread has been like having all your christmases at once. I'd like to thank Ed & Grubber for providing us with such quality entertainment today - you both deserve an Oscar. I'd smoke a joint in your honour but that would be illegal.:clap:

I agree, and in reference to the last sentence, since I can't legally have one of those, I'll have one of thesehttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/08/apydabu6.jpg washed down with some of thishttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/08/epage8uh.jpg
Since it's legal it must be better for me, lol, yea right

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[blackdog]

http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8638908/magic-mushrooms-could-treat-depression-expert

Wonder how Ed and Grubber feel about this then?