Dobbed in weed-growing parents

[Madness]

The Chinese, you've got to hand it to them...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11181755


About 147 million people - around 2.5 per cent of the world's population - use cannabis, according to the World Health Organisation. And medicinal properties of the drug are increasingly being recognised.

[unstuck]

I wonder what a Chinamans eyes look like after a hooter?????:eek5:

[Mushu]

Why can't you?


minor drug conviction. My guess.

More or less what Akzle said, accidental trafficking actually, had controlled medication in my luggage and didn't even know it. 3 Dexamphetamine pills which I couldn't prove I had a script for (cos I didn't) and ten years later they still make a point of bringing the dogs to me every time I go through an airport.

[Edbear]

More or less what Akzle said, accidental trafficking actually, had controlled medication in my luggage and didn't even know it. 3 Dexamphetamine pills which I couldn't prove I had a script for (cos I didn't) and ten years later they still make a point of bringing the dogs to me every time I go through an airport.

You didn't know they were a controlled drug, or didn't know you had them with you?

I may be wrong, but I would have thought that if you were "innocent" in that of not knowing they were a controlled drug, you would have had a chance to clear your record?

I know they get tough on the excuse, "I didn't know they were in there." Because you have to know what you are carrying by law.

[Mushu]

You didn't know they were a controlled drug, or didn't know you had them with you?

I may be wrong, but I would have thought that if you were "innocent" in that of not knowing they were a controlled drug, you would have had a chance to clear your record?

I know they get tough on the excuse, "I didn't know they were in there." Because you have to know what you are carrying by law.

Neither excuse would have been acceptable, anything even close to the realm of drug trafficking gets made into a very big deal. I can't remember what I told them but I know it wasn't the truth..... (I had no idea I had them, if I'd realized I'd have just taken them, there were only 3. But I know I lied about hoe they came to be in my possession)

They told me at the time that they would put a red flag against my name and that I would probably be stopped any time I go through an airport in nz. They didn't say if it would ever be lifted and I still get singled out but it does seem to have relaxed a bit in recent years, and it all happened when I was a minor (just) and well over a decade ago.

[Katman]

They didn't say if it would ever be lifted and I still get singled out but it does seem to have relaxed a bit in recent years, and it all happened when I was a minor (just) and well over a decade ago.

Don't take it personally.

I've had the third degree from customs every time I've come back into the country.

I've never had any conviction in my life - other than for pissing in public (and even that was at 11 o'clock at night in an unlit carpark).

Customs officials think with their eyes - not their brains.

[Mushu]

Don't take it personally.

I've had the third degree from customs every time I've come back into the country.

I've never had any conviction in my life - other than for pissing in public (and even that was at 11 o'clock at night in an unlit carpark).

Customs officials think with their eyes - not their brains.

The last couple of years Ive thought that might be the only reason I'm getting stopped, I can see why they might stop me based on my appearance.

But the first few times I came through chch airport it was very obvious, on more than one occasion I was even asked to wait for them to bring a dog from another part of the airport. I just learned to be careful with not smoking weed the day of a return trip.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. I regularly get searched through customs - pretty much every time ... sometimes even getting on the plane at the other end ..

I have no convictions ... but I do have visible tattoos which are not easy to conceal ... I must look the part ...

[mashman]

Looks like you were right Mashy...

http://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/

heh... hopefully noone will tell them that even though the stuff has been illegal for many many years, people have still been using it and if the behaviour that they're worried about hasn't happened by now, it probably isn't going to. It could shatter a few illusions, it may even drive a few of them to drink.

[Madness]

Righto. Fuck all you cunts, I'm emigrating...

http://abriluno.com/phillip-morris-introduces-marlboro-marijuana-cigarettes/?fb_action_ids=10151854147576956&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B457497807685474%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

[Laava]

Righto. Fuck all you cunts, I'm emigrating...

http://abriluno.com/phillip-morris-introduces-marlboro-marijuana-cigarettes/?fb_action_ids=10151854147576956&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B457497807685474%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

To satireland?

[Madness]

To satireland?

http://youtu.be/bTFWa92a8GE

[mashman]

http://youtu.be/bTFWa92a8GE

Dreams are free... and don't let anyone tell you any different.

[Laava]

Haha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyRiUYBgPJc&sns=em

[scumdog]

Righto. Fuck all you cunts, I'm emigrating...



Goodby.

Don't let the door hit you on the arse....

[Madness]

Goodby.

You forgot the "e". Dumb fuck.

[scumdog]

You forgot the "e". Dumb fuck.

I tried it with an 'e' AND a 'u'.

I decided to use neither.

Rum does that to ya!

Fuckin' pedant.......

[mashman]

You forgot the "e". Dumb fuck.

You ate it didncha. But kudos blamin the cops for it

[Madness]

Rum does that to ya!

That shit'll rot your teeth and give you diabetes.

Cheers! :drinkup:

[Banditbandit]

You forgot the "e". Dumb fuck.

Thought you were going ???


That shit'll rot your teeth and give you diabetes.

Cheers! :drinkup:

SSSShhhhh ... that will mean one less cop around ...

[Katman]

Plenty of reading here for you Ed.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/?s=Cannabis+cancer

[Edbear]

Plenty of reading here for you Ed.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/?s=Cannabis+cancer

Where did you get the idea I was opposed to the medical research on Cannabis from? I have often stated that I am in favour of it. What I am against is using it for recreation to get high and that most users are claiming the medical benefits as an excuse to get stoned.

[Madness]

What I am against is using it for recreation to get high and that most users are claiming the medical benefits as an excuse to get stoned.

Who needs an excuse to get stoned? I sure as fuck don't.

[Edbear]

Who needs an excuse to get stoned? I sure as fuck don't.

No, it's the same as with many issues, a lot of people justify their use with excuses that are clearly false. If you want to get stoned and say so, you are at least being honest.

[Madness]

No, it's the same as with many issues, a lot of people justify their use with excuses that are clearly false. If you want to get stoned and say so, you are at least being honest.

And your opinion on Cannabis is the same as with many other issues in that it's got sweet fuck all to do with you what others choose to do with their life and their body, much like your views on abortion & tattoos, to name but a few. :rolleyes:

[Katman]

Where did you get the idea I was opposed to the medical research on Cannabis from? I have often stated that I am in favour of it. What I am against is using it for recreation to get high and that most users are claiming the medical benefits as an excuse to get stoned.

So if there is such a strong indication that Cannabis can be used to treat cancer, it would suggest to me that there is just as strong a possibility that Cannabis use could actually help prevent cancer.

Perhaps it's not such a coincidence that the huge increase in cancer related illnesses of the last 70 (or so) years has happened in a similar amount of time that Cannabis has been subjected to worldwide prohibition.

[Edbear]

And your opinion on Cannabis is the same as with many other issues in that it's got sweet fuck all to do with you what others choose to do with their life and their body, much like your views on abortion & tattoos, to name but a few. :rolleyes:

Pardon me for breathing. Naturally your opinion is far more relevant... ;)


So if there is such a strong indication that Cannabis can be used to treat cancer, it would suggest to me that there is just as strong a possibility that Cannabis use could actually help prevent cancer.

Perhaps it's not such a coincidence that the huge increase in cancer related illnesses of the last 70 (or so) years has happened in a similar amount of time that Cannabis has been subjected to worldwide prohibition.

Bollocks! :lol:

[Katman]

Bollocks! :lol:

Really Ed?

And what 'research' do you base that response on?

Or are you just wasted on your prescription drugs again?

[Madness]

Pardon me for breathing. Naturally your opinion is far more relevant... ;)

I prefer to think of it as my opinion being far less irrelevant than yours, on this subject at the very least. ;)

[Edbear]

I prefer to think of it as my opinion being far less irrelevant than yours, on this subject at the very least. ;)

You want to smoke dope, I don't. Neither of us is alone in our views and I would expect there are far more people of my opinion than there are of yours. :innocent:

This is KB, after all. <_<

[Katman]

It sounds like you're letting your addiction hinder your research Ed.

[Banditbandit]

It sounds like you're letting your addiction hinder your research Ed.

Ed's an addict ?? Oh - say it isn't so ... tell that I can rely on his opinions as honest opinions, rather than stoned out ones ...

(Otherwise I'd think as much of his opinions as I do of other druggies here ...)

(Yeah .. I know ... but I am here aren't I and therefore the above statement is still true and NOT hypocritical)

[Akzle]

I would expect there are far more people of my opinion than there are of yours.

no i dont reckon. I dont reckon at all.

[FJRider]

You want to smoke dope, I don't. Neither of us is alone in our views and I would expect there are far more people of my opinion than there are of yours. :innocent:

This is KB, after all. <_<

Ok ED .. stop the troll posts and troll threads ... it's not working for you.



Not even most of the voting majority (as opposed to the vocal majority) will agree with you. But the (political) powers that be ... cannot be seen at this point to want it's legality.

[Edbear]

Ok ED .. stop the troll posts and troll threads ... it's not working for you.



Not even most of the voting majority (as opposed to the vocal majority) will agree with you. But the (political) powers that be ... cannot be seen at this point to want it's legality.

Doubtful, I mean if smoking dope was legal, what percentage of the population would smoke it?

As for trolling, well, you may be right.

[Akzle]

Doubtful, I mean if smoking dope was legal, what percentage of the population would smoke it?


about as many as do now. I reckon.

[Edbear]

about as many as do now. I reckon.

Maybe a few more, but you see my point. By far the minority.

[FJRider]

Doubtful, I mean if smoking dope was legal, what percentage of the population would smoke it?

As for trolling, well, you may be right.

Enough that voices are heard ... not enough to get listened too .... :yawn:

Tobacco will be banned soon too ... if some MP's get their way ... :yes:



Personally ... If the product was Government approved and an appropriately high tax rate applied ... it could be the cash cow that could be milked ... :wari:

Just think ... Free healthcare ... free education ... low general tax rates .. :shifty:

[bogan]

Maybe a few more, but you see my point. By far the minority.

So legalising it would save on policing costs, and increase tax take, with only a few more stoners? As a non stoner, shit gets my vote :woohoo: Let the police get back to finding my laptop, it'll be 6 years old soon, but still good enough for me to take a dump on the cpu and send it to axlke.

[Mushu]

So legalising it would save on policing costs, and increase tax take, with only a few more stoners? As a non stoner, shit gets my vote :woohoo: Let the police get back to finding my laptop, it'll be 6 years old soon, but still good enough for me to take a dump on the cpu and send it to axlke.

Legalizing it and allowing an industry to grow it and sell it would provide quite a few benefits, decrease on gang revenues, more usable tax dollars for the government, free up a ton of police time both in enforcing the current legislation against it and potentially in alcohol related crime, the ability to use it in medical applications, increased tourism, etc. There doesn't seem to be an obvious downside to legalizing it either or we would have been hearing for years from those against it in Holland, California and more recently in Colorado.

I see you haven't got any smarter, Ed. Once properly educated there wouldn't be too many who would be against it, I highly doubt even close to as many as would smoke/ support others rights to smoke.

[Akzle]

Maybe a few more, but you see my point. By far the minority.

youre right. Homosexuals shouldnt have rights. Nor innuits or people who ride italian bikes. And as for vegetarians! Against the wall, all of em!

[Madness]

Maybe a few more, but you see my point. By far the minority.

As Sir Akzle has suggested, the number of homosexuals that have married since it became legal are also by far the minority. What's your point again?

[Edbear]

As Sir Akzle has suggested, the number of homosexuals that have married since it became legal are also by far the minority. What's your point again?

Remember I said there would be more of my opinion than yours?

(You want to smoke dope, and I don't.)

[Katman]

(You want to smoke dope, and I don't.)

Who gives a fuck what you want Ed?

Stand in the way of progress and you'll get trampled.

[Madness]

Remember I said there would be more of my opinion than yours?

(You want to smoke dope, and I don't.)

So no real point, just a little bit of cock-waving. Whatever floats yer boat, Cap'n!

[Edbear]

So no real point, just a little bit of cock-waving. Whatever floats yer boat, Cap'n!

This is KB and you think there's a point to it? :lol:

[Katman]

http://www.hempforfuture.com/2014/03/31/new-ruling-finds-cannabis-to-be-the-most-medicinal-plant-in-the-world/

[mashman]

I'm pretty sure I heard that right... Ollie the drug sniffing dog has retired. Her replacement (chocoloate lab) is called Akzle.

[Madness]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/03/26/no-legalizing-medical-marijuana-doesnt-lead-to-crime-according-to-actual-crime-stats/

[unstuck]

Love this response to that article Madness,,,,,,,,,,,The real reason cannabis has remained illegal is:
Cannabis threatens our national security because it lowers the readiness of our troops
troops meaning everyone who is registered with selective service.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Fuck yanks are dumb fucks.

[Madness]

http://youtu.be/yCe368Ovk4Q

[BoristheBiter]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

[mashman]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

Shouldn't be any lack of candidates for checking... but let's have some doctors, lawyers, pilots, heavy plant operators etc... as subjects.

[Akzle]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

i started reading it. But got quite emotional and lost motivation to continue after my second cone/ the first paragraph.

[Katman]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

You're 11, aren't you?

[BoristheBiter]

You're 11, aren't you?

You're a cunt aren't you?

[Madness]

This research was funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, the Office of National Drug Control Policy, Counterdrug Technology Assessment Center, and the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.

Propaganda much?

:facepalm:

[Akzle]

Propaganda much?

:facepalm:

its fuking peer reviewed science and shit yo, so it must be jesus.

[BoristheBiter]

Propaganda much?

:facepalm:

Meh, read it as you like.

[Madness]

Meh, read it as you like.

I did. I particularly liked this bit because it kind of confirms that up to now they've really got nothing.


This study raises a strong challenge to the idea that casual marijuana use isn't associated with bad consequences

[bogan]

I did. I particularly liked this bit because it kind of confirms that up to now they've really got nothing.

So, does it fit between bananas and booze on harmful substances list then?

[Akzle]

So, does it fit between bananas and booze on harmful substances list then?

doubt it. On account of the lack of, y'know, harm.

[bogan]

doubt it. On account of the lack of, y'know, harm.

So, less harmful than bananas or more harmful than booze?

[Akzle]

So, less harmful than bananas or more harmful than booze?

yes. .

[Katman]

http://naturalhealthwarriors.com/20-medical-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-cure-cancer/

[mashman]

http://naturalhealthwarriors.com/20-medical-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-cure-cancer/sthash.J8woFAKG.gbpl

So it can't then.

[Katman]

So it can't then.

I have no idea why the copy and paste isn't working with that link.

[mashman]

I have no idea why the copy and paste isn't working with that link.

Because you were stoned?

[Katman]

Because you were stoned?

Try it now.

http://naturalhealthwarriors.com/20-medical-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-cure-cancer/

[mashman]

Try it now.

http://naturalhealthwarriors.com/20-medical-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-cure-cancer/

Ta for that... although you realise that that's all bullshit propaganda proliferated by the pro-drugs lobby and if we ever thought that to be true that the pharmaceutical industry would likely take a bigger hit than filling a bucket bong with an O of 99% THC riddled rat killer.

[Katman]

An interesting watch.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Synthetic-highs-not-intended-for-human-use---creator/tabid/817/articleID/343034/Default.aspx

Especially the comment from the inventor at the very end.

[SMOKEU]

An interesting watch.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Synthetic-highs-not-intended-for-human-use---creator/tabid/817/articleID/343034/Default.aspx

Especially the comment from the inventor at the very end.

Just as well I stocked up on synthetic pot tonight! 11 bags for me!

I've only tried the stuff a couple of times, and that was about 2 years ago.

[Banditbandit]

Just as well I stocked up on synthetic pot tonight! 11 bags for me!

I've only tried the stuff a couple of times, and that was about 2 years ago.

Fuck .. stay away from that shit !!!@

I have friends who only bought it when they could not get marijuana .. and when marijuana came back on the market they could not stop smoking the legal stuff

That shit is addictive as hell !!! More addictive and dangerous than marijuana.

[pritch]

Just as well I stocked up on synthetic pot tonight! 11 bags for me!

I've only tried the stuff a couple of times, and that was about 2 years ago.

That shit causes a lot of problems, it got a bit close to home. I had the mental health crisis team visit, they were looking for a local woman who was a user. She got free board in the local mental health unit for a while. To my knowledge she had not had previous mental health issues.

It was depressing watching all those losers queueing for their fix on Campbell Live. Scenes like that could give the Minister reason to believe that the unemployment benefit is too generous.

My solution? Synthetic canabis should be permanently banned, but the genuine article should be decriminalised.

[mashman]

Just as well I stocked up on synthetic pot tonight! 11 bags for me!

I've only tried the stuff a couple of times, and that was about 2 years ago.

I dunno, you can take the boy out of SA (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/23321113/christchurch-legal-high-store-robbed/)

[SMOKEU]

Please, never, ever, ever do synthetic cannabis. It's the worst drug I have ever come across, and the effects are nightmarishly intense, unlike anything I have ever experienced, including Salvia Divinorum. I thought I was going to die and I was basically paralyzed by it, not being able to move or talk. It's truly the most terrifying experience imaginable, like your worst nightmare has become reality. It's absolutely nothing like real cannabis, and I believe this shit has no recreational use whatsoever.

I saw my GP today and he checked my heart and blood pressure and I'll be fine.

If you come across this shit, biff it out or flush it down the toilet. It makes P and opioids look like a fucking joke in comparison.

[mashman]

Please, never, ever, ever do synthetic cannabis. It's the worst drug I have ever come across, and the effects are nightmarishly intense, unlike anything I have ever experienced, including Salvia Divinorum. I thought I was going to die and I was basically paralyzed by it, not being able to move or talk. It's truly the most terrifying experience imaginable, like your worst nightmare has become reality. It's absolutely nothing like real cannabis, and I believe this shit has no recreational use whatsoever.

I saw my GP today and he checked my heart and blood pressure and I'll be fine.

If you come across this shit, biff it out or flush it down the toilet. It makes P and opioids look like a fucking joke in comparison.

I did a few of them back in their early days and found no ill effects. However, the only real negative I found with them could be produced at will. I merely had to load up a J with a little more than usual and I could find myself in a condition where I was not in control of my faculties. It's nowhere near as severe with mary jane, but again, a lot of that depends on how I dose myself. The lightest of sprinkles gives me all of the medicinal relief I needed and I found the synthetic shit didn't provide those reliefs irrespective of dose... in essence I went back to the real thing for a wee while. Sleep management, weight management and anger management all in a puff.

I dare say it's the same for a lot of users i.e. if they didn't smoke it like they smoke grass they likely wouldn't "suffer" the negative side effects as much... but I'd need a grant and 4 or 5 years of intense research to come up with any form of conclusive proof... something I am willing to do :laugh:

However I've had nothing since before christmas and with the advent of certain, erm, changes in mind, I find I don't need it... having said that I could use the weight management side of it and I'm pretty sure it'd help with my further education :blip:

[Madness]

Please, never, ever, ever do synthetic cannabis. It's the worst drug I have ever come across, and the effects are nightmarishly intense, unlike anything I have ever experienced, including Salvia Divinorum. I thought I was going to die and I was basically paralyzed by it, not being able to move or talk. It's truly the most terrifying experience imaginable, like your worst nightmare has become reality. It's absolutely nothing like real cannabis, and I believe this shit has no recreational use whatsoever.

I saw my GP today and he checked my heart and blood pressure and I'll be fine.

If you come across this shit, biff it out or flush it down the toilet. It makes P and opioids look like a fucking joke in comparison.

:killingme Did you smoke all 11 bags you dumb cunt?

[Katman]

It's absolutely nothing like real cannabis, and I believe this shit has no recreational use whatsoever.


Have you ever tried dripping Dandelion juice down the eye of your cock?

From what I've been told, that has great recreational use.

[Madness]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10024379/Teens-hospitalised-as-synthetic-ban-hits

It seems you weren't alone, Smokey.

[SMOKEU]

:killingme Did you smoke all 11 bags you dumb cunt?

No. 3 hits from a cone and that was it. It honestly hit me like a fucking freight train, and I felt like I was going to be confined to a mental institution for the rest of my life, and that I had destroyed my entire life. Thank fuck it's over! That shit is some serious stuff that should never be fucked with, and it should have been banned a long time ago.

I've never felt like I was going to die from any other drug before. The only thing that comes closeish is nutmeg, but even that has severe flu like symptoms, rather than the feeling of impending doom and death from these synthetics. I'm not normally one to say "drugs are bad, mkay", but I'm happy this shit is banned.

It was honestly like a full on trip, rather than a "high" that you'd expect from stimulants, depressants and mild psychedelics. I'd be happy if I could just stop one person from doing this shit, and I'm keen to spread the message that this crap should be avoided at all costs.


Have you ever tried dripping Dandelion juice down the eye of your cock?

From what I've been told, that has great recreational use.

No, but I look forward to hearing the trip report from you.

[Akzle]

No. 3 hits from a cone and that was it. It honestly hit me like a fucking freight train, and I felt like I was going to be confined to a mental institution for the rest of my life, and that I had destroyed my entire life. Thank fuck it's over! That shit is some serious stuff that should never be fucked with, and it should have been banned a long time ago.

I've never felt like I was going to die from any other drug before. The only thing that comes closeish is nutmeg, but even that has severe flu like symptoms, rather than the feeling of impending doom and death from these synthetics. I'm not normally one to say "drugs are bad, mkay", but I'm happy this shit is banned.

It was honestly like a full on trip, rather than a "high" that you'd expect from stimulants, depressants and mild psychedelics. I'd be happy if I could just stop one person from doing this shit, and I'm keen to spread the message that this crap should be avoided at all costs.



No, but I look forward to hearing the trip report from you.

youre right. If you cant handle it, noone should be allowed.

[SMOKEU]

youre right. If you cant handle it, noone should be allowed.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

But after various experiences with, but not limited to, cannabis, alcohol, amphetamines, opioids, BZP, TMFPP, caffeine, salvia divinorum, none have reproduced effects that are even remotely similar to these synthetic cannabinoids.

Many of these producs are so extremely strong that it's very easy to consume overdose quantities with very little effort. Of course, swallowing pills is also very easy, but these sorts of products should not be commercially available, especially since so little is known about the mid to long term effects, and the short term effects can be extremely unpredictable.

After conducting a fair bit of online research, it seems like many others have experienced very similar effects. How many other readily available drugs do you know of that are this bad? Many habitual users have also experienced side effects such as vomiting blood or seizures, many of which occur upon cessation of these substances. Do you really think these things have any place in society?

[Akzle]

That's not what I'm saying at all.

But after various experiences with, but not limited to, cannabis, alcohol, amphetamines, opioids, BZP, TMFPP, caffeine, salvia divinorum, none have reproduced effects that are even remotely similar to these synthetic cannabinoids.

Many of these producs are so extremely strong that it's very easy to consume overdose quantities with very little effort. Of course, swallowing pills is also very easy, but these sorts of products should not be commercially available, especially since so little is known about the mid to long term effects, and the short term effects can be extremely unpredictable.

After conducting a fair bit of online research, it seems like many others have experienced very similar effects. How many other readily available drugs do you know of that are this bad? Many habitual users have also experienced side effects such as vomiting blood or seizures, many of which occur upon cessation of these substances. Do you really think these things have any place in society?

thats exactly what youre saying.

Im a proponent of freedom. Including the freedon to be a fuken moron.

[Banditbandit]

thats exactly what youre saying.

Im a proponent of freedom. Including the freedon to be a fuken moron.

And you clearly exercise that freedom every day !!!


(SOrry - I just could not walk away from such an opening)

[Akzle]

(SOrry - I just could not walk away from such an opening)

it's okay, i wouldn't have expected any less (or more) from kb...

[MIXONE]

I have seen what that shit does to people on many occassions.I couldn't believe it was legal to ride or drive after smoking it.
Thank fuck it was banned.
I also couldn't believe the profits to be made.Surely even P doesn't have those $ to be made.

[Madness]

I also couldn't believe the profits to be made.

Dairy owners used to love selling the shit. They made 50% G.P on synthetics whilst Tobacco gives them around 10% and less each & every time the prices go up.



Surely even P doesn't have those $ to be made.

I can't see that being the case at $1,000 a gram. Even if P were taxed I think it would still be highly profitable. I'm glad to say I don't know enough about this to state it as fact.

[SMOKEU]

Poor journalism yet again "From midnight on Wednesday, it became illegal to sell, supply or possess psychoactive substances, including synthetic cannabis."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10025825/Legal-high-brain-frying-experience

Fuck, so now I have to worry about the cops raiding my house and seizing my stash of caffeine pills, alcohol, tobacco, kava and nutmeg. They're all psychoactive substances after all. Not to mention the psychoactive prescription drugs that I legally obtained from a pharmacy with a legitimate prescription from a GP, that have my name on the script and pill bottles.

I also hate the term "legal highs". Could you be any more ambiguous?

[Katman]

Even though I'm rapt to see them off the shelves I was surprised to hear on the news that the police have confiscated all the retailers remaining stock and that is was to be destroyed. The government has also said that retailers would not be compensated for loss of stock.

I thought these products were banned until they could be proven to be low risk. Surely this seized stock should be held by the police so that any that manage to meet this requirement can be returned.

[mashman]

Even though I'm rapt to see them off the shelves I was surprised to hear on the news that the police have confiscated all the retailers remaining stock and that is was to be destroyed. The government has also said that retailers would not be compensated for loss of stock.

I thought these products were banned until they could be proven to be low risk. Surely this seized stock should be held by the police so that any that manage to meet this requirement can be returned.

And her majesty's shouldn't have allowed them on to the shelves in the first place, but meh, they are a law unto themselves and peeps iz suckaz.

[Edbear]

Perhaps the best idea is for those charged with making the laws and those pro the freedom to have free access to the drugs to accompany those on the front line for a week or two. The Police, the Paramedics, the hospital emergency rooms, and the counselling agencies.

Then there might be a better understanding of the reality and less angst and argument.

[Akzle]

Perhaps the best idea is for those charged with making the laws and those pro the freedom to have free access to the drugs to accompany those on the front line for a week or two. The Police, the Paramedics, the hospital emergency rooms, and the counselling agencies.

Then there might be a better understanding of the reality and less angst and argument.

maybe they should replace the flouride in the water with tramadol to have a docile, unquestioning and stupid population that wont want to take any other drugs anyway...

[SMOKEU]

maybe they should replace the flouride in the water with tramadol to have a docile, unquestioning and stupid population that wont want to take any other drugs anyway...

Personally I'm not a big fan of tramadol. It feels reasonably good, but just doesn't have the wonderful opioid high that codeine has. Apparently the seizure threshold is quite low too, so I don't take more than 200mg at once.

[Edbear]

maybe they should replace the flouride in the water with tramadol to have a docile, unquestioning and stupid population that wont want to take any other drugs anyway...

Eh? What does that have to do with accompanying the front liners? That's the reality.

[Katman]

Perhaps the best idea is for those charged with making the laws and those pro the freedom to have free access to the drugs to accompany those on the front line for a week or two.

Or the powers that be could just come to their senses and decriminalise Cannabis.

These party pill/legal high products would be gone in no time.

[mashman]

Perhaps the best idea is for those charged with making the laws and those pro the freedom to have free access to the drugs to accompany those on the front line for a week or two. The Police, the Paramedics, the hospital emergency rooms, and the counselling agencies.

Then there might be a better understanding of the reality and less angst and argument.

Why would that help? People have the perfect understanding of their reality... tis everyone else sticking their noses in that blurs the edges.

[Akzle]

Personally I'm not a big fan of tramadol. It feels reasonably good, but just doesn't have the wonderful opioid high that codeine has. Apparently the seizure threshold is quite low too, so I don't take more than 200mg at once.

mainline heroin you pussy.
70% heroin, 30% cocaine.
Fuken ride of your life.

[Madness]

That's the reality.

It might be a reality but it sure as fuck aint the only reality. Besides, I'm happy to wager that the "front line" would be dealing with waaay more alcohol-fuelled issues than those attributed to all illicit drugs combined. You carry on though, Ed as you've undoubtedly been researching on this subject and we all know that makes you an expert.

[Edbear]

It might be a reality but it sure as fuck aint the only reality. Besides, I'm happy to wager that the "front line" would be dealing with waaay more alcohol-fuelled issues than those attributed to all illicit drugs combined. You carry on though, Ed as you've undoubtedly been researching on this subject and we all know that makes you an expert.

What makes you think I approve of alcohol fuelled stupidity either? Here's a challenge for you. Go and spend a Friday or Saturday night with the police on duty. Then comment.

[Katman]

What makes you think I approve of alcohol fuelled stupidity either? Here's a challenge for you. Go and spend a Friday or Saturday night with the police on duty. Then comment.

Where did he say he thinks you approve?

[Madness]

What makes you think I approve of alcohol fuelled stupidity either? Here's a challenge for you. Go and spend a Friday or Saturday night with the police on duty. Then comment.

So do you think alcohol should be re-classified as an illegal drug then?

Sorry to burst your little fantasy bubble Ed but what the popo get up to on a Friday or Saturday night has sweet fuck all to do with the impact of Cannabis on crime rates or civil unrest in this country. The only issue with Cannabis use in respect to the vast majority of its users in this country is its legal status. To believe otherwise is simply the result of the delusional lies that sheep such as yourself have been gobbling up from governments your entire lives.

If you're all about challenges today Ed, I challenge you to hang out with someone who chooses to enjoy Cannabis in the privacy of their own home after a hard days work. Witness the complete absence of any violence, destruction and moral disintegration that ensues. I'd invite you around here one night but to be honest, I have this thing about letting junkies in the house.

[slofox]

What makes you think I approve of alcohol fuelled stupidity either? Here's a challenge for you. Go and spend a Friday or Saturday night with the police on duty. Then comment.

My brother does that regularly in his professional capacity. He tells me the "legal" highs are worse than anything except alcohol.

[Edbear]

So do you think alcohol should be re-classified as an illegal drug then?

Sorry to burst your little fantasy bubble Ed but what the popo get up to on a Friday or Saturday night has sweet fuck all to do with the impact of Cannabis on crime rates or civil unrest in this country. The only issue with Cannabis use in respect to the vast majority of its users in this country is its legal status. To believe otherwise is simply the result of the delusional lies that sheep such as yourself have been gobbling up from governments your entire lives.

If you're all about challenges today Ed, I challenge you to hang out with someone who chooses to enjoy Cannabis in the privacy of their own home after a hard days work. Witness the complete lack of violence, destruction and moral disintegration that ensues. I'd invite you around here one night but to be honest, I have this thing about letting junkies in the house.

Ummm. You're talking to someone born in the late '50's. ... Lol! What do you think the '60's and '70's were like?

[Madness]

My brother does that regularly in his professional capacity. He tells me the "legal" highs are worse than anything except alcohol.

Are you referring to the number of incidents being attended or the amount of actual harm being observed?

[Madness]

Ummm. You're talking to someone born in the late '50's. ... Lol! What do you think the '60's and '70's were like?

For you? Pretty fucking boring I'd imagine. Are you going to tell us stories about your own prolific Cannabis use during the 60's & 70's now Ed? :corn:

[slofox]

Are you referring to the number of incidents being attended or the amount of actual harm being observed?

Mostly the aggro displayed by the users I think he meant.

[Edbear]

My brother does that regularly in his professional capacity. He tells me the "legal" highs are worse than anything except alcohol.

Alcohol remains the top issue due to the sheer volume of it and the more widespread usage. The so called legal highs were a stupid idea in the first place, like lowering the age limit for alcohol. Now the poor sods on the front line have an even bigger mess up to deal with.

It's been a general trend since the 1960's, the downhill slide of standards and the increase in the bad consequences. I guess only those of us who were there at the time and have observed down through the years can grasp the reality of it. For the young ones it's normal life.

[Madness]

It's been a general trend since the 1960's, the downhill slide of standards and the increase in the bad consequences. I guess only those of us who were there at the time and have observed down through the years can grasp the reality of it. For the young ones it's normal life.

So life in the early 60's was idyllic huh? Would I be right to assume that Cannabis (and possibly LSD) was the only illegal drug readily available in the 60's?

It's a pity isn't it Ed. The sad thing for me is that if Cannabis hadn't been illegal all these years the consumption of harmful drugs such as synthetics and methamphetamines and the prolific abuse of alcohol in our society would have been much, much less.

[BoristheBiter]

It's a pity isn't it Ed. The sad thing for me is that if Cannabis hadn't been illegal all those years the consumption of harmful drugs such as synthetics and methamphetamines and the prolific abuse of alcohol in our society would have been much, much less.

So you are saying that cannabis has no harmful effects?

[Edbear]

For you? Pretty fucking boring I'd imagine. Are you going to tell us stories about your own prolific Cannabis use during the 60's & 70's now Ed? :corn:

I abstained myself, but the number of people using it who I worked with was enough to make it obvious that it was a dumb thing to do. I was able to observe first hand its effects on a large number of people. Few were ever violent on it but all of them seemed to lose their common sense and intelligence after a while. Being a passenger in their vehicle wasn't my idea of fun either.

They would lose their work ethic, too, and were pretty casual about honesty. When combined with alcohol it was time for sensible people to leave. Black eyes and bruising was expected at work the next day.

[Madness]

So you are saying that cannabis has no harmful effects?

It's certainly never done me any harm. And before you start opening that huge gob of yours, you're a much bigger wanker than I'll ever be & I'm picking you don't use it at all.

[Madness]

I abstained myself...

So you're posting from a position of relative ignorance on the subject then. Thanks, I'm glad we cleared that up.


...but the number of people using it who I worked with was enough to make it obvious that it was not something I could handle. I was able to observe first hand its effects on a large number of people. None were ever violent on it but all of them seemed to lose their inhibitions and relax after a while. Being a passenger in their vehicle wasn't my idea of fun either, probably because I'm such a tightly-wound little princess.

They would lose their work ethic, too, and were pretty casual about honesty, but they were predominantly black and what else would you expect?. Whenever alcohol was consumed it was time for sensible people to leave. Black eyes and bruising was expected at work the next day.

[Edbear]

So life in the early 60's was idyllic huh? Would I be right to assume that Cannabis (and possibly LSD) was the only illegal drug readily available in the 60's?

It's a pity isn't it Ed. The sad thing for me is that if Cannabis hadn't been illegal all these years the consumption of harmful drugs such as synthetics and methamphetamines and the prolific abuse of alcohol in our society would have been much, much less.

I doubt it. People are stupid and those using drugs in order to get high won't generally admit that there is anything wrong with them. ..

Only when something really serious hits them square might they start to think about it.

[Edbear]

So you're posting from a position of relative ignorance on the subject then. Thanks, I'm glad we cleared that up.

Bollox, if you had to personally experience everything to know anything about it you'd die very young. Those who cannot learn by observation are seriously compromised.

[Madness]

People are stupid.

You're not though, eh Ed?

Hey I fixed that last quote of yours, just up there. I hope you like it.

[Madness]

Bollox, if you had to personally experience everything to know anything about it you'd die very young. Those who cannot learn by observation are seriously compromised.

So my opinion of Tramadol addicts is still valid then. Cool, thanks for that.

[bogan]

So my opinion of Tramadol addicts is still valid then. Cool, thanks for that.

Does that shit affect one's ability to drive at all?

[Madness]

Does that shit affect one's ability to drive at all?

Yes. There was a quote around here somewhere that mentioned the harmful effects of Tramadol use and the dangers this can present, particularly when the user (or addict) is driving. Scary shit!

[bogan]

Yes. There was a quote around here somewhere that mentioned the harmful effects of Tramadol use and the dangers this can present, particularly when the user (or addict) is driving. Scary shit!

Wow, so from what I've learned by observation, it would seem driving stoned and driving trammy'd up are much of a muchness. I'd personally never ever do either, as I value not just my own life, but the lives of those I share the road with.

[Madness]

Wow, so from what I've learned by observation, it would seem driving stoned and driving trammy'd up are much of a muchness. I'd personally never ever do either, as I value not just my own life, but the lives of those I share the road with.

I believe the major difference is that the Tramadol user (or addict) is able to decide for themselves (irrespective of qualifications) if their drug-induced state is likely to cause harm whilst on the other hand, the state has made the decision that all Cannabis use is potentially harmful and thus, the Cannabis user is unable to use Cannabis lawfully under any circumstances, irrespective of their willingness to accept full personal responsibility and having the personal maturity to be able to use Cannabis in a safe manner.

[BoristheBiter]

It's certainly never done me any harm.

It wasn't the question I asked.

Do you think that smoking cannabis has no harmful effects?

[Katman]

Do you think that smoking cannabis has no harmful effects?

Certainly no more harmful effect than smoking cigarettes.

And in fact, without all the chemicals of tailor mades, smoking Cannabis would have far less harmful effect than smoking cigarettes.

[Edbear]

So you're posting from a position of relative ignorance on the subject then. Thanks, I'm glad we cleared that up.


You're not though, eh Ed?

Hey I fixed that last quote of yours, just up there. I hope you like it.


So my opinion of Tramadol addicts is still valid then. Cool, thanks for that.


I believe the major difference is that the Tramadol user (or addict) is able to decide for themselves (irrespective of qualifications) if their drug-induced state is likely to cause harm whilst on the other hand, the state has made the decision that all Cannabis use is potentially harmful and thus, the Cannabis user is unable to use Cannabis lawfully under any circumstances, irrespective of their willingness to accept full personal responsibility and having the personal maturity to be able to use Cannabis in a safe manner.

So you're not above committing libel either. And of course you know me personally and have spent time in my company to observe first hand the effects of my meds on myself. You have also been with me when I was consulting with my Dr. on the best drugs to use and their possible effects.

You're a fraud with as much credibility as Bogan, which is of course, none whatsoever.

[bogan]

And of course you know me personally and have spent time in my company to observe first hand the effects of my meds on myself.

Do you have to make every thread about yourself? Take a load off man, snort a cone or whatever it is the kids call it these days and become one with universe, check your ego at the door and get some perspective. Legalizing weed is coming, deal with it.

[Edbear]

Do you have to make every thread about yourself? Take a load off man, snort a cone or whatever it is the kids call it these days and become one with universe, check your ego at the door and get some perspective. Legalizing weed is coming, deal with it.

Oh, so sorry. Madness hasn't mentioned me at all, he was talking about someone else, my mistake. :rolleyes:

[Madness]

So you're not above committing libel either.

Sue me, Fuckface.


And of course you know me personally and have spent time in my company to observe first hand the effects of my meds on myself.

Ed, I think most of the KB regulars know you well enough to be able to label you a fucked-up drug addict. Besides, has anyone who believes that I shouldn't have the legal right to use a natural plant for relaxation purposes in the privacy in my own home actually gone to the trouble of coming to witness first-hand the effects of Cannabis on me? No, the fucking haven't. What was your point again?


You have also been with me when I was consulting with my Dr. on the best drugs to use and their possible effects.

Don't be silly, Ed. I tell you what though, I wonder if you may have been prescribed Cannabis instead of Opiates if the Cannabis laws in this country had been a little more sensible?


You're a fraud with as much credibility as Bogan, which is of course, none whatsoever.

Actually Ed, I think the Shorai thread has left no doubt in anyone's mind as to who the biggest fraud on KB is.

[Katman]

Oh, so sorry. Madness hasn't mentioned me at all, he was talking about someone else, my mistake. :rolleyes:

I think he was talking about Tramadol addicts.

Are you a Tramadol addict Ed?

[SMOKEU]

mainline heroin you pussy.
70% heroin, 30% cocaine.
Fuken ride of your life.

That sounds fun! Like a speedball.


Does that shit affect one's ability to drive at all?

Yes, it makes the mind quite "cloudy" and "muddy" in a way, like a strong cannabis stone without the "high". Of course it affects every user differently.


Do you have to make every thread about yourself? Take a load off man, snort a cone or whatever it is the kids call it these days and become one with universe, check your ego at the door and get some perspective. Legalizing weed is coming, deal with it.

He sounds like he needs it.

[Madness]

People like to make emotive comments that don't reflect reality.

I know, right? :facepalm:


Perhaps the best idea is for those charged with making the laws and those pro the freedom to have free access to the drugs to accompany those on the front line for a week or two. The Police, the Paramedics, the hospital emergency rooms, and the counselling agencies.

Then there might be a better understanding of the reality and less angst and argument.


Eh? What does that have to do with accompanying the front liners? That's the reality.


Here's a challenge for you. Go and spend a Friday or Saturday night with the police on duty. Then comment.


Ummm. You're talking to someone born in the late '50's. ... Lol! What do you think the '60's and '70's were like?


It's been a general trend since the 1960's, the downhill slide of standards and the increase in the bad consequences. I guess only those of us who were there at the time and have observed down through the years can grasp the reality of it. For the young ones it's normal life.


I abstained myself, but the number of people using it who I worked with was enough to make it obvious that it was something I couldn't handle. I was able to observe first hand its effects on a large number of people. None were ever violent on it but all of them seemed to lose their inhibitions and relax after a very short while. Being a passenger in their vehicle wasn't my idea of fun either on account of me being such a tightly wound little princess.

They would lose their work ethic, too, and were pretty casual about honesty but most of them were black so what do you expect? When alcohol was being abused it was time for sensible people to leave. Black eyes and bruising was expected at work the next day.


People are stupid and those using drugs in order to get high won't generally admit that there is anything wrong with them. ..

Only when something really serious hits them square might they start to think about it.


Bollox, if you had to personally experience everything to know anything about it you'd die very young. Those who cannot learn by observation are seriously compromised.


So you're not above committing libel either. And of course you know me personally and have spent time in my company to observe first hand the effects of my meds on myself. You have also been with me when I was consulting with my Dr. on the best drugs to use and their possible effects.

You're a fraud with as much credibility as Bogan, which is of course, none whatsoever.

[SMOKEU]

I love my drugs just as much (if not more) than the next person, but I can safely say I would not want consume ANY type of opioids daily for more than 1 or 2 weeks at the very most. That shit is dangerous. Fucking junkies.

[mashman]

Medical cannabis report disappoints (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/23392710/medical-cannabis-report-disappoints/#)

"The Ministry of Health said it was concerned about the use of raw cannabis as it varied greatly in chemical composition and strength."

""The report also failed to recognise that any health risks from smoking raw cannabis can be mitigated through edible or vaporised alternatives.""

"Pharmaceutical cannabis medicine Sativex had already been approved for use in New Zealand, but was difficult to get and was not subsidised, Mr Bell said."

"The Drug Foundation was drafting an application to Pharmac to subsidise Sativex, Mr Bell said."

So it's basically the dosage that's the issue. Or is it that there's a man made pharmaceutical product out there? Let's see.

I smell a rat given that you could take as many sativex as you like. Dosage argument debunked.

Side effects must be the issue then. There are well documented side-effects with cannabis, I wonder what the side-effects of sativex could be?

abdominal pain, burning sensation in the mouth, constipation, diarrhea, dizziness, dry mouth, flushing, forgetfulness or poor concentration, headache, increased appetite, mood changes, nausea, sore throat, soreness or stinging sensation in mouth, tiredness, trouble sleeping, unusual taste in the mouth, vomiting, weakness, anxiety, blurred vision, confusion, fainting, falls, or difficulty with balance, hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there) or strange ideas, intoxication (a feeling of being drunk; e.g., difficulty paying attention, dizziness, sleepiness, disorientation, changes in mood, a feeling of unreality, or a feeling of general happiness or a "high," such as easy laughter or heightened awareness), loss of appetite, mouth sores, rapid heartbeat, severe dizziness, severe tiredness, signs of depression (e.g., poor concentration, changes in weight, changes in sleep, decreased interest in activities, thoughts of suicide), blood in the urine, inability to urinate, bladder pain, or abdominal pain, signs of a severe allergic reactions (e.g., hives; difficulty breathing; or swelling of the tongue, face, mouth, or throat).

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa. Yup, must be a dosage thing.

Money talks folks and it's the health of those on your country that's at stake... glad we'll be subsidising this shit soon.

[Akzle]

"Pharmaceutical cannabis medicine Sativex had already been approved for use in New Zealand, but was difficult to get and was not subsidised, Mr Bell said.".

i fucking missed that, i knew the pharmajews were doing it in 'straya, but they do all kinds of dumb shit in 'straya,
...like have a woman PM(s )

ahhh
thank fuck for the jews running the show, god only knows how we'd do without them. (pun intended, fuckers)

[Madness]

http://www.policymic.com/articles/89165/3-months-since-legalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-colorado-looks-like

Take a moment to think about how many blood transfusions all that extra tax revenue could fund.

[Katman]

Only an idiot could ignore the growing evidence of the value of Cannabis as a medicinal product.

It stands to reason that if there is healing benefit from it then it is morally reprehensible for the powers that be to continue persecuting it's users.

The times they are a-changin'.

[mashman]

http://www.policymic.com/articles/89165/3-months-since-legalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-colorado-looks-like

Take a moment to think about how many blood transfusions all that extra tax revenue could fund.

I wonder if there have been any savings to policing and healthcare in regards to alcohol replacement?

And, bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaa

[BoristheBiter]

The times they are a-changin'.

What like how everyone used to smoke (tobacco) and now they don't?

[blue rider]

What like how everyone used to smoke (tobacco) and now they don't?

oh they are still smoking

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Health/tobacco-smoking.aspx

[BoristheBiter]

oh they are still smoking

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Health/tobacco-smoking.aspx

So that is only 15% of over 15 years old smoke.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11170993

[Shaun Harris]

Only an idiot could ignore the growing evidence of the value of Cannabis as a medicinal product.

It stands to reason that if there is healing benefit from it then it is morally reprehensible for the powers that be to continue persecuting it's users.

The times they are a-changin'.










I have a mate I know very well who can avoid taking his pain killers that make him very tired and loose his ballance by smoking a bit of pot during the day if not doing anything involving safety or machinery operations on the day, and that has got to be better than jut swallowing the chemically made pain killers

[Shaun Harris]

So that is only 15% of over 15 years old smoke.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11170993









and 50% of them are buying there cigarrettes with the DOLE money

[Edbear]

and 50% of them are buying there cigarrettes with the DOLE money

That they cadge off their parents... :msn-wink:

[SMOKEU]

I have a mate I know very well who can avoid taking his pain killers that make him very tired and loose his ballance by smoking a bit of pot during the day if not doing anything involving safety or machinery operations on the day, and that has got to be better than jut swallowing the chemically made pain killers

Unfortunately most people are too stupid to realize that.

[Shaun Harris]

I see some one from the Auckland District council has called for a serious discussion re pot again

[Grubber]

It's certainly never done me any harm. And before you start opening that huge gob of yours, you're a much bigger wanker than I'll ever be & I'm picking you don't use it at all.

Why don't you red rep him, that'l fix the bugger eh!
Jeez, just like Akzle you stoop to the personal attack.
Get a grip fella.
You can do what ya like in the comfort of your OWN home but don't come out here and play with us on the highway or in my place of work without being clean.
I would like to go home to my family each day thanks!

Struggle to understand why you need the shit at all, are you just not able to get by on everyday life like most of us.
Pretty sad state to be in really!
Your red stated me as "pathetic", not bad when you wouldn't have a clue about me. But i have learnt that this is a standard argument of a dope head.

[bogan]

Why don't you red rep him, that'l fix the bugger eh!
Jeez, just like Akzle you stoop to the personal attack.
Get a grip fella.
You can do what ya like in the comfort of your OWN home but don't come out here and play with us on the highway or in my place of work without being clean.
I would like to go home to my family each day thanks!

Struggle to understand why you need the shit at all, are you just not able to get by on everyday life like most of us.
Pretty sad state to be in really!
Your red stated me as "pathetic", not bad when you wouldn't have a clue about me. But i have learnt that this is a standard argument of a dope head.

Not exactly making a good case for the level headed not dope-head there grubber.

Shit's not black and white, those who drink and drive or get high and drive deserve the same treatment (taken out the back and beaten thoroughly with a hose), those who drink or get high at home or with mates etc, don't worry me one bit. There's no high horse to get on when one is legal and one is not.

[Grubber]

Not exactly making a good case for the level headed not dope-head there grubber.

Shit's not black and white, those who drink and drive or get high and drive deserve the same treatment (taken out the back and beaten thoroughly with a hose), those who drink or get high at home or with mates etc, don't worry me one bit. There's no high horse to get on when one is legal and one is not.

That was kinda my point.
Drink, smoke all you like in your own home, but don't bring it out here where it can damage others. This includes my place around my kids, although they can't see the sense in it anyway. They are all high on life itself without needing any help. Obviously well rounded in that respect.
2nd point being is that it's the same old argument with dope smokers, no matter what angle you come from.
They all seem to think they are mightier than everyone else and their shit don't stink no matter how many tokes they had.

I beg to differ!

[Banditbandit]

They all seem to think they are mightier than everyone else and their shit don't stink no matter how many tokes they had.

I beg to differ!

So hang on - are you suggesting that your shit stinks better than a dope smokers???

Shit - that's a dangerous path to do down - shit is shit, no matter whose shit it is ...

[bogan]

That was kinda my point.
Drink, smoke all you like in your own home, but don't bring it out here where it can damage others. This includes my place around my kids, although they can't see the sense in it anyway. They are all high on life itself without needing any help. Obviously well rounded in that respect.
2nd point being is that it's the same old argument with dope smokers, no matter what angle you come from.
They all seem to think they are mightier than everyone else and their shit don't stink no matter how many tokes they had.

I beg to differ!

Again, lacking in the level-headedness dept. Dope smokers do not all think the same, just as recidivist drink drivers do not represent the drinkers. And there is really no need to keep up the tone that dope smokers are somehow less well rounded, etc, personal insults and all that...

[Madness]

Struggle to understand why you need the shit at all...

I don't you silly old man. I simply choose to use it as & when I see fit as I believe this enhances my already wonderful life. If you weren't such a narrow-minded old fool and tried a few new things from time to time you might find that there's more to life than you previously thought. Sorry about the red but I disagreed with your post and I hate to say it, I think you are a tad pathetic.

[imdying]

You can do what ya like in the comfort of your OWN home but don't come out here and play with us on the highway or in my place of work without being clean.


Drink, smoke all you like in your own home, but don't bring it out here where it can damage others.

These seem like reasonable requests. The rest of the rhetoric is just that.

[Grubber]

I don't you silly old man. I simply choose to use it as & when I see fit as I believe this enhances my already wonderful life. If you weren't such a narrow-minded old fool and tried a few new things from time to time you might find that there's more to life than you previously thought. Sorry about the red but I disagreed with your post and I hate to say it, I think you are a tad pathetic.

Well at least we are similar in some respects. I think your tad pathetic also. If your life is so wonderful why do you need it then. My guess is it can't be that great!
Narrow minded, i should get out and try new things?
This just shows me you know very little about me at all.
As i have said in other threads, i have flown gliders, bungy jumped, parachuted, raced motorbikes and still do, speed ski, rally cars, para sailing, snow ski of the Southern Alps and the list goes on. Think i've tried a few things don't you, and none where i felt the need for drugs.

[blue rider]

shit happens with alcohol

http://www.alcohol.org.nz/research-resources/nz-statistics/road-traffic-crashes-and-deaths

shit happens when smoking cigarettes

http://www.ash.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Secondhand_smoke/Deaths_in_New_Zealand_attributable_to_second_hand. pdf

shit happens when taking prescription drugs

http://www.webdc.com/pdfs/deathbymedicine.pdf


and obviously shit happens when peeps smoke weed or shit

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/03/marijuana-deaths_n_3860418.html



Please someone explain to me why the stoner at home is more repugnent than the drink driver on his / her way home from the pub.

Please explain to me why Mama's little yellow helper is ok, but having a joint makes one a "stoner"?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13olfeD026g

seriously i am curious.

[bogan]

As i have said in other threads, i have flown gliders, bungy jumped, parachuted, raced motorbikes and still do, speed ski, rally cars, para sailing, snow ski of the Southern Alps and the list goes on. Think i've tried a few things don't you, and none where i felt the need for drugs.

Wow, sounds like you're addicted to that naturally occurring drug called adrenaline. How empty is your life that you need a drug like that? :rolleyes:

[Madness]

Well at least we are similar in some respects. I think your tad pathetic also. If your life is so wonderful why do you need it then. My guess is it can't be that great!
Narrow minded, i should get out and try new things?
This just shows me you know very little about me at all.
As i have said in other threads, i have flown gliders, bungy jumped, parachuted, raced motorbikes and still do, speed ski, rally cars, para sailing, snow ski of the Southern Alps and the list goes on. Think i've tried a few things don't you, and none where i felt the need for drugs.

I'll type this slowly seeing as you've obviously not getting it.

I DO NOT NEED CANNABIS. IT IS MY CHOICE TO USE IT.

Tobacco is a much more addictive substance than Cannabis, this is widely accepted and has also been my own experience. I've recently knocked the fags on the head quite successfully so I have no doubts that if one day I choose to stop using Cannabis altogether I would have no problem in doing so.

I'm really pleased you've done all that shit and yes, you've tried a few things already - excellent. My question for you is did you have a strong opinion of these activities before you tried them yourself?

I actually think it's great that you had the freedom to choose to do these things without fear of persecution. I suppose what I'm getting at is the activities you mentioned all have a degree of risk involved but if performed in a safe, responsible manner how could any innocents be harmed, right?

Incidentally, a number of the activities you mentioned would be so much better with a bit of a glow happening. That said, I also enjoy salt & pepper on my food most days but I've never gone hungry because I didn't have seasoning :msn-wink:


...smoke all you like in your own home, but don't bring it out here where it can damage others.

I don't think anybody who is pro Cannabis law reform is asking for the right to do anything more than exactly that, other than having the legal right to grow 2 or 3 plants in a secure fashion.

[Shaun Harris]

Perhaps they will just keepit illegal to keep the little internet squabbles going eh, carry on

[Madness]

http://youtu.be/hrVXRZY1_x0

[mashman]

http://youtu.be/hrVXRZY1_x0

And yet still there's push back and animal testing :facepalm:... I wonder why (he said knowingly).

[Madness]

http://youtu.be/tAFu-Ihwyzg

[mashman]

http://youtu.be/tAFu-Ihwyzg

Cunt... did it again.

A govt patent, hmmmm... why would they need such a thing.

[Madness]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_rwP3zj2GHc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
__________

[mashman]

"We do not think there are any benefits for decriminalising or legalising cannabis, for medicinal purposes or otherwise, which outweigh the harm it causes to society," Justice Minister Judith Collins told Fairfax. (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/24341420/kiwi-attitudes-to-marijuana-change-poll/)...

:facepalm: how, in this day and age, can people in power still be so ignorant.

[Katman]

:facepalm: how, in this day and age, can people in power still be so ignorant.

Her husband knows nothing about dope growing so there's no money in it for them.

[mashman]

Her husband knows nothing about dope growing so there's no money in it for them.

But surely the remuneration authority would look favourably on the new tax revenue available from those who currently do know something about dope growing. Isn't that a win win?

[Katman]

But surely the remuneration authority would look favourably on the new tax revenue available from those who currently do know something about dope growing. Isn't that a win win?

I think Judith Collins works on bigger margins than that.

[Akzle]

i like weed.

[SMOKEU]

i like weed.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Who's up for a toke?

[unstuck]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ICXLqPJr-Sg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:banana::banana:

[mashman]

No medicinal value huh. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10211443/Parents-use-cannabis-to-treat-kids)

[Akzle]

No medicinal value huh. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10211443/Parents-use-cannabis-to-treat-kids)

fairly sure anyone who has been awake within the last few decades can't deny that cannabis is fucking excellent for humans, without being a dipshit.
me? i have glaucoma...

[Madness]

Further steps in the right direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/04/politics/marijuana-2014/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[unstuck]

In 2013, according to Gallup, more Americans supported legalization than those who opposed it. Just 14 years earlier, those who opposed it had over a 2-to-1 advantage. A 2014 Pew Research poll found that 54% of Americans supported making marijuana legal.


So what is stopping them from doing so, they have a democratic society do they not. 54 % should be enough to get things changed, right.:wacko:

[nosebleed]

I'm slowly getting through this thread so not sure if this has been covered yet, but this email link come from my subscription to the weekly HBS Working Knowledge website;

Marketing Marijuana
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/7623.html

[mashman]

I'm slowly getting through this thread so not sure if this has been covered yet, but this email link come from my subscription to the weekly HBS Working Knowledge website;

Marketing Marijuana
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/7623.html

FFS leave the supply chain alone. There is no need for control in an industry that's been controlling itself for millennia and if all else fails, you'll have taken a large chunk out of the unemployment figures, reduced criminality thereby saving the tax payer $ owed to there being less criminality (100K per prisoner?), a new tax revenue stream etc... ban "big" anything getting near the industry.

"Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should. " springs to mind.

[bogan]

Well, the science is in... http://mic.com/articles/115766/8-scientific-reasons-you-should-never-smoke-weed looks like we have to put the pot needles away.

[Akzle]

Well, the science is in... http://mic.com/articles/115766/8-scientific-reasons-you-should-never-smoke-weed looks like we have to put the pot needles away.

welll. duh.

wonder what ocean has to say about it :whistle:

[Madness]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/02/chronic-marijuana-use-is-about-as-bad-for-your-health-as-not-flossing-researchers-find/

[Banditbandit]

http://time.com/4037604/colorado-marijuana-tax-revenue/

http://www.refinery29.com/2016/05/111002/aurora-colorado-marijuana-tax-homeless

[Katman]

Word.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3YWe5kjG35M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ejucate yoselfs.

[Katman]

If the US Drug Enforcement Administration won't reschedule cannabis because they believe it has no medicinal value, why does the US government hold a patent on it?

http://www.google.com/patents/US6630507

[Banditbandit]

http://www.healthnutnews.com/us-govt-finally-admits-cannabis-kills-cancer-cells/

[Jin]

I'm all for legalising weed but i wish advocates would stop bringing up the new tax revenue stream it really grinds my gears. The last thing we want is to hand over more money to grubby little fuckwits in Wellington.

[Woodman]

I'm all for legalising weed but i wish advocates would stop bringing up the new tax revenue stream it really grinds my gears. The last thing we want is to hand over more money to grubby little fuckwits in Wellington.

Yes, better to hand it all over to dangerous criminal organisations:facepalm:

[Akzle]

Yes, better to hand it all over to dangerous criminal organisations:facepalm:

nono, his angle was NOT paying tax...

[Madness]

nono, his angle was NOT paying tax...

Makes sense as it causes no harm. Tax the feck out of booze instead.

[Banditbandit]

Yes, better to hand it all over to dangerous criminal organisations:facepalm:


They can legalize possession - but not sales.

That means people would grow their own (legally) and it would cut the income for the criminal organisations ..

[scumdog]

Makes sense as it causes no harm. Tax the feck out of booze instead.

As long as they can make a cannabis drink that tastes like bourbon...:msn-wink:

[bogan]

As long as they can make a cannabis drink that tastes like bourbon...:msn-wink:

Sure, just pull the plant out including roots and dirt, cover it in kerosene, light it on fire; then blend the still flaming remainder into a rusty bean tin. Will taste exactly the same.

[scumdog]

Sure, just pull the plant out including roots and dirt, cover it in kerosene, light it on fire; then blend the still flaming remainder into a rusty bean tin. Will taste exactly the same.

No shit, it's that easy?:eek5:

[Laava]

No shit, it's that easy?:eek5:

He is thinking Canadian Club.

[Madness]

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2016-10-06/prescription-painkiller-claiming-more-lives-than-any-other-drug/

Does anyone know if Ed is still mincing about in his Kizashi?

[MIXONE]

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2016-10-06/prescription-painkiller-claiming-more-lives-than-any-other-drug/

Does anyone know if Ed is still mincing about in his Kizashi?

Didn't it kill him?:blink:

[Madness]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/30/obama-says-marijuana-should-be-treated-like-cigarettes-or-alcohol/?utm_term=.76432885b006

[Jeff Sichoe]

yeah it's obvious the worm has turned and it's fucking bullshit that the NZ police are still hunting down crops and busting people for selling weed

you guys MUST REALISE that when people can't get weed they go straight for P, right?

So what you are actually doing is forcing more people onto a worse drug just because ... reasons?

[Akzle]

you guys MUST REALISE that when people can't get weed they go straight for P, right?
?

uhhh. no .

[mashman]

So what you are actually doing is forcing more people onto a worse drug just because ... reasons?

Fill jails.


uhhh. no .

It's getting cheaper and is a better bang for buck. Just dry up weed supply, say via a govt crackdown, and you've got what you deny. The hit is the hit and that's what too many are after unfortunately. Hide the pain.

[Madness]

you guys MUST REALISE that when people can't get weed they go straight for P, right?

It's worse than that. I resort to consuming alcohol :facepalm:

[Edbear]

Sorry to inform you, but I'm still alive.

I have cut down on Tramadol as a means of increasing the effectiveness of another med I'm taking according to my Endocronologist's recommendations. I'm now taking less than half the amount.

As I have pointed out many times, Tramadol is a drug that many cannot take but others can with few, if any, side effects. This is true for many types of drug as people have different reactions to the same medication.

What is sad, here,. is that so many of you seem to be unable to function, or have any kind of fun without recreational drugs to alter your mind and mood. Says a lot about your life, or lack of...

I am so busy with work and family, now having three grandkids and another on the way, that drugs as debilitating as the common recreational ones, and yes, that includes alcohol, are a barrier to having fun. They are a selfish option that brings no pleasure to your mates or partners except to laugh, (or sigh in exasperation), at your silliness when under their influence. What a waste of time and money...

[Katman]

Sorry to inform you, but I'm still alive....

.....and as self-righteous as ever.

[Edbear]

.....and as self-righteous as ever.

I just tell it like I see it. This whole argument is silly. You guys need to get a life, or find something real to complain about.

[Katman]

I just tell it like I see it. This whole argument is silly. You guys need to get a life, or find something real to complain about.

Whether you like it or not Ed, there is a widespread change happening in people's attitude towards Cannabis.

(I don't imagine anyone here will be particularly concerned if you're determined to stick to your pompous, holier-than-thou attitude though.)

[Edbear]

Whether you like it or not Ed, there is a widespread change happening in people's attitude towards Cannabis.

(I don't imagine anyone here will be particularly concerned if you're determined to stick to your pompous, holier-than-thou attitude though.)

The widespread change is due to the potential health and commercial benefits of current research, which I fully support.

What is funny, is that for most of those arguing, they just want to get stoned without consequences.

[Madness]

Sorry to inform you, but I'm still alive.

Sorry to hear that, Ed.

[Edbear]

Sorry to hear that, Ed.

Get used to disappointment mate.

However I am undergoing some tests that may change the status quo in a few weeks...

[Katman]

What is funny, is that for most of those arguing, they just want to get stoned without consequences.

And what's wrong with that Ed?

If it is becoming apparent that there are real benefits to be had from using Cannabis as a treatment, who's to say that it doesn't offer benefits as a preventative?

[Jeff Sichoe]

What is sad, here,. is that so many of you seem to be unable to function, or have any kind of fun without recreational drugs to alter your mind and mood. Says a lot about your life, or lack of...



I dunno man smoking a bit of weed and playing video games and having sex all day is actually pretty rad maybe you should try it before you knock it?

[Jeff Sichoe]

Tramadol can sometimes be compared to MDMA in this department but the side effects are closer to being on an ssri. The drive, passion, prospect and libido for sex is high, yet it can cause delayed ejaculation, sexual dysfunction, and difficulty getting or maintaining an erection.

ahh damn sorry about your penis, bro

[Edbear]

And what's wrong with that Ed?

If it is becoming apparent that there are real benefits to be had from using Cannabis as a treatment, who's to say that it doesn't offer benefits as a preventative?

Preventing what? Life happening?


I dunno man smoking a bit of weed and playing video games and having sex all day is actually pretty rad maybe you should try it before you knock it?

Time and place for most things. I am very happily married, so one of these things is no problem, the other two would negate my life. Got too many more important and fun things to do.

[Madness]

What is funny, is that for most of those arguing, they just want to get stoned without consequences.

No, what's funny is that you're still spouting off your bullshit opinions from a position of total ignorance and in total contradiction to your views on Tramadol. Oh, I'm also not your "mate".

[Edbear]

Tramadol can sometimes be compared to MDMA in this department but the side effects are closer to being on an ssri. The drive, passion, prospect and libido for sex is high, yet it can cause delayed ejaculation, sexual dysfunction, and difficulty getting or maintaining an erection.

ahh damn sorry about your penis, bro

Ah, but as I said, not everyone reacts the same way and for me I had no noticeable side effects... Even cutting down by more than half hasn't been too much of a problem. I tried cold-turkey, but too much pain, so slowed it down and increased Paracetamol. Still more pain, but manageable.

[Katman]

Preventing what? Life happening?

How exactly does Cannabis prevent life happening Ed?

And what are the 'consequences' you're talking about? If you talking about the possibility of being convicted for Cannabis use, how can you possibly suggest that such a consequence is justified?

[Edbear]

No, what's funny is that you're still spouting off your bullshit opinions from a position of total ignorance and in total contradiction to your views on Tramadol. Oh, I'm also not your "mate".

"Total ignorance?" The only thing I haven't done is smoked it. I belkieve in knowing what I'm talking about, so have done a lot of research into the current studies and research on cannabis and what they are developing from it and it's potential. I keep up to date on it. I doubt many here do.

Tramadol is an approved medical drug for pain relief and has been around for about 40 years or so. No comparison.

I have supported the Govt. position on administering Cannabis as treatment on a case by case basis, noting that it made not a lot of difference and did not prolong the patient's life. Those who felt it did help? Good on them.

What you fail to understand, is that I am just finding it amusing to hear arguments from those who just want to get stoned.

As for not being my mate? :violin:

[Jeff Sichoe]

Ah, but as I said, not everyone reacts the same way and for me I had no noticeable side effects... Even cutting down by more than half hasn't been too much of a problem. I tried cold-turkey, but too much pain, so slowed it down and increased Paracetamol. Still more pain, but manageable.

Sorry i'm confused, are we still talking about your penis?

[Katman]

Tramadol is an approved medical drug for pain relief and has been around for about 40 years or so. No comparison.


The pharmaceutical industry relies on addicts like you Ed.

[Madness]

I haven't smoked it but I know all about it because I read some shit.

Uh-huh :facepalm:

Your contradiction on this particular subject stems from your belief that you can benefit from using Tramadol safely without negative side-effects but you fail to acknowledge that the same can be said for Cannabis use in thousands upon thousands of regular Cannabis users, many of whom are hard working, honest tax-paying citizens.

It matters not, I know who will have the last laugh and it sure as fuck isn't going to be Ed the Head.

[Jeff Sichoe]

"Total ignorance?" The only thing I haven't done is smoked it. I belkieve in knowing what I'm talking about, so have done a lot of research into the current studies and research on cannabis and what they are developing from it and it's potential. I keep up to date on it. I doubt many here do.

Tramadol is an approved medical drug for pain relief and has been around for about 40 years or so. No comparison.

I have supported the Govt. position on administering Cannabis as treatment on a case by case basis, noting that it made not a lot of difference and did not prolong the patient's life. Those who felt it did help? Good on them.

What you fail to understand, is that I am just finding it amusing to hear arguments from those who just want to get stoned.

As for not being my mate? :violin:

Comon man, you've never smoked it?

It's like... imagine you have had a few beers and are sitting in the sun on a sat arvo with your kids running around or whatever, you're relaxed, you're happy, you're buzzed.

Now take that feeling and cram it into a bong, then smoke it.

that's what you're against - someone feeling a little bit more happy than they otherwise might.

It's a plant, it grows in the ground. Yes it can kill peoples desire to ... what? make a bunch of money? work 10 hours a day for a family he never sees?

Why not just relax? why tell others that they are not allowed to relax in a manner which befits them?

[Edbear]

How exactly does Cannabis prevent life happening Ed?

And what are the 'consequences' you're talking about? If you talking about the possibility of being convicted for Cannabis use, how can you possibly suggest that such a consequence is justified?


Preventing what? Life happening?



Time and place for most things. I am very happily married, so one of these things is no problem, the other two would negate my life. Got too many more important and fun things to do.


Getting stoned is a waste of time.

[QUOTE]. What is sad, here,. is that so many of you seem to be unable to function, or have any kind of fun without recreational drugs to alter your mind and mood. Says a lot about your life, or lack of...

I am so busy with work and family, now having three grandkids and another on the way, that drugs as debilitating as the common recreational ones, and yes, that includes alcohol, are a barrier to having fun. They are a selfish option that brings no pleasure to your mates or partners except to laugh, (or sigh in exasperation), at your silliness when under their influence. What a waste of time and money... [QUOTE]

Consequences? Smoking anything is bad for you, your lungs were not designed to cope with smoke inhalation. Not just the law catching up with you either. People do stupid things while under the influence of mind-altering drugs, too.

[Edbear]

Comon man, you've never smoked it?

It's like... imagine you have had a few beers and are sitting in the sun on a sat arvo with your kids running around or whatever, you're relaxed, you're happy, you're buzzed.

Now take that feeling and cram it into a bong, then smoke it.

that's what you're against - someone feeling a little bit more happy than they otherwise might.

It's a plant, it grows in the ground. Yes it can kill peoples desire to ... what? make a bunch of money? work 10 hours a day for a family he never sees?

Why not just relax? why tell others that they are not allowed to relax in a manner which befits them?

I'm not telling anyone what to do, it's entirely your choice. I just find it amusing to hear silly arguments. And as I just posted, smoking is bad for you.

[Jeff Sichoe]

Ed - smoking weed is like having a hot shower

you really don't know what you're missing till you try it.

[Katman]

Getting stoned is a waste of time.

So if getting stoned and watching some telly is a waste of time, what is sitting and watching telly?

[Katman]

Consequences? Smoking anything is bad for you, your lungs were not designed to cope with smoke inhalation. Not just the law catching up with you either. People do stupid things while under the influence of mind-altering drugs, too.

Smoking isn't the only way to take Cannabis Ed.

If people want to risk damage to their lungs though, that's their choice.

[Madness]

I'm not telling anyone what to do, it's entirely your choice. I just find it amusing to hear silly arguments. And as I just posted, smoking is bad for you.

More ignorant bullshit.

Keep it coming Ed, I've missed your level of retardation to be honest. We've had to make do with Husapedo lately and he aint got nothing on you.

[Katman]

More ignorant bullshit.

Keep it coming Ed, I've missed your level of retardation to be honest. We've had to make do with Husapedo lately and he aint got nothing on you.

Well, I'd say it's a fairly even contest to be honest.

[Edbear]

Ed - smoking weed is like having a hot shower

you really don't know what you're missing till you try it.

You missed the point about smoking.

[Edbear]

Smoking isn't the only way to take Cannabis Ed.

If people want to risk damage to their lungs though, that's their choice.

True! But for me, I'd rather keep my faculties intact. Much more fun that way. Fogging up my brain with drugs and/or alcohol, reducing my physical abilities, (and sensibilities), is not for me.

If Tramadol had adverse effects, I would have gone onto something else years ago.

[Edbear]

So if getting stoned and watching some telly is a waste of time, what is sitting and watching telly?

For the most part, also a waste of time. Not much worth watching these days IMO.

[Katman]

You missed the point about smoking.

I agree that putting anything other than clean air into your lungs carries a certain degree of risk Ed.

But the same could be said about those who choose to inhale the smoke from a burnout.

(But I'll also come back to the fact that smoking is not the only way one can use Cannabis.)

And I'm still interested in hearing how you can morally justify someone being convicted for Cannabis use.

[Edbear]

I agree that putting anything other than clean air into your lungs carries a certain degree of risk Ed.

But the same could be said about those who choose to inhale the smoke from a burnout.

(But I'll also come back to the fact that smoking is not the only way one can use Cannabis.)

And I'm still interested in hearing how you can morally justify someone being convicted for Cannabis use.

I have never addressed the morality of the law, just that it is the law and people can't squeal if they break it and get caught. Just like speeding.

The only way is to lobby for a law change, and so far, TPTB have decided it's not going to change. The issue from their perspective, is that the drug, like alcohol, does cause unwanted side effects, esp. in driving and operating machinery, as also in many professions requiring alertness. So how do they account for that in law? Alcohol is easier to police than cannabis being much more obvious in its effects.

[Jeff Sichoe]

You missed the point about smoking.

Dude, as Katman said, you choose to breathe in all sorts of bad shit all the time.

You ever read the warning label on chain-lube?

Known to cause genetic defects.

Do you put on full PPE when you lube your chain?

[Katman]

I have never addressed the morality of the law, just that it is the law and people can't squeal if they break it and get caught. Just like speeding.

I'll direct you back to post #1952 Ed.

The 'consequences' you talk of can only be legal consequences.

So again, how do you morally justify someone being convicted for Cannabis use?

[Madness]

Do you put on full PPE when you lube your chain?

Ed doesn't ride or own a bike. He claims it's his poor health that caused him to end his illustrious riding career but I reckon he's just frightened of riding when impaired by pharmaceuticals, despite it not being against the law for him to do so.

[Edbear]

Ed doesn't ride or own a bike. He claims it's his poor health that caused him to end his illustrious riding career but I reckon he's just frightened of riding when impaired by pharmaceuticals, despite it not being against the law for him to do so.

Ahuh... The truth is that following my acident and subsequent fusion, the surgeon warned that I had two dodgy vertebrae left, the L4, which is weak and the L5. He said if I damaged those I would be a paraplegic and there would little they could do, so said not to ride anymore.

Were it only me, I would still ride anyway, as I have never crashed a bike, but having said that I am well aware of the vulnerability. I smashed my back in a van at 45km/h.

But having spent a year or so in a wheelchair, I have no desire to repeat the experience and my wife and kids are paranoid that I might end up back in one. It's no fun at all. So in deference to them, I have agreed, under protest and with that gutted feeling every day, that I will not ride.

[Katman]

So in deference to them, I have agreed, under protest and with that gutted feeling every day, that I will not ride.

<img src="https://wandervogeldiary.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/under-thumb.jpg?w=655"/>

[Edbear]

<img src="https://>

But you would say that, wouldn't you?

[Edbear]

But you would say that, wouldn't you?

Something's not right with the site, my answer didn't register.

[Madness]

...with that gutted feeling every day.

You don't suppose by now that this is more likely just another Tramadol side-effect? You're right about life as a junkie though, it looks like no fun at all from what I can see.

[Edbear]

You don't suppose by now that this is more likely just another Tramadol side-effect? You're right about life as a junkie though, it looks like no fun at all from what I can see.

Trust you to get everything backwards. Nothing whatsoever to do with drugs or meds.

But you like to be wrong as long as you can poke the borax, eh?

[Madness]

...borax.

What do you do with that, snort it?

[Akzle]

sorry im late to the party..



As I have pointed out many times, Tramadol is a drug that many cannot take but others can with few, if any, side effects. This is true for many types of drug as people have different reactions to the same medication.
like.....cannabis?


What is sad, here,. is that so many of you seem to be unable to function, or have any kind of fun without recreational drugs to alter your mind and mood. Says a lot about your life, or lack of...
according to whom?


Ah, but as I said, not everyone reacts the same way and for me I had no noticeable side effects... Even cutting down by more than half hasn't been too much of a problem. I tried cold-turkey, but too much pain, so slowed it down and increased Paracetamol. Still more pain, but manageable.
because paracetamol is good for you :killingme
(you fucking idiot)
please, please, Ed, double your dose af paracetamol.


"Total ignorance?" The only thing I haven't done is smoked it.
so yes. pretty much total ignorance. having consumed both cannabis and tramadol (and pretty much everything else under the sun) i can safely say: you're an ignorant cunt.



I belkieve in knowing what I'm talking about, so have done a lot of research into the current studies and research on cannabis and what they are developing from it and it's potential. I keep up to date on it. I doubt many here do.
and has this research lead you to the many and varied health benefits of cannabis, such as anti-seizure, anti-emeitic, analgesic, the reduction of intra-ocular pressure, etc, etc, et-fucking-cetera.

or... not?


Tramadol is an approved medical drug for pain relief and has been around for about 40 years or so. No comparison.
and thalidomide was approved for morning sickness for years, too.

i'm guessing your mum took full advantage of that approval... based on... you.


What you fail to understand, is that I am just finding it amusing to hear arguments from those who just want to get stoned.
oh no, ed, the failure is entirely yours. if i want to smoke cannabis, crack, meth, pcp, salvia, datura, tobacco... it wont be "the rules" that stop me. in fact, it want be anything. i'll do that shit.
and pity the cunt that tries to enforcre government policy against me.

but that's all irrelevant waffle (funny.. how that now you're here........)
becouse there are about fifty arguments FOR cannabis, and yet the only ones you can muster against it are: "i'm scared" and; "it's illegal"
:clap:
well done. fuckwit.



Getting stoned is a waste of time.
according to whom?
and what time?
and whose time?
has "your" time personally been wasted by "getting stoned"?
no? so how about shutthefuckupyoudrongocunt


People do stupid things while under the influence of mind-altering drugs, too.
people do stupid shit stone-cold-sober.
what the fuck is your point?
i mean hell. you bother posting here, which can be considered both "a waste of time" (see above) and "stupid shit" (see: everything you post)


True! But for me, I'd rather keep my faculties intact.
i'd say we're a bit past that, ehh.


Fogging up my brain with drugs and/or alcohol, reducing my physical abilities, (and sensibilities), is not for me.
...and a bit too late for that, ehh.


If Tramadol had adverse effects, I would have gone onto something else years ago.
that thing. about biased perspective... observing from within the foggy drug induced haze... i'm sure most drunk cunts in town think it's a fucking riot to piss their name on an alley wall... until they're met by a sober opinion.



But the same could be said about those who choose to inhale the smoke from a burnout.
...or anyone who lives in a city... with all that *actually carcinogenic* diesel exhaust.



The only way is to lobby for a law change, and so far, TPTB have decided it's not going to change.
yes, and some of us grown-ups don't go looking to someone else to tell us what we can and can't do.
it's not "the only way".
i smoke the green, and (as above) pity the cunt that tries to enforce governmont policy against me.


The issue from their perspective, is that the drug, like alcohol, does cause unwanted side effects, esp. in driving and operating machinery, as also in many professions requiring alertness.
really. all that extensive research you've done, and you're comfortable posting THAT.

i guess that shows just how "extensive" your "research" has been.
fuckwit.


So how do they account for that in law? Alcohol is easier to police than cannabis being much more obvious in its effects.
uhhh.... EGG-FUCKING-SACTLY.

you. fucking. idiot.


how about, instead of some arbitrary measurable physiological effect, they do something radical... like, oh, i don't know, an actual IMPAIRMENT test....


all of this is rhetorical, ed. i don't want to hear from you, because you're too fucking stupid, i just had to post all this shit, so as your stupidity didn't go unrefuted.

[bogan]

I tried cold-turkey, but too much pain, so slowed it down and increased Paracetamol. Still more pain, but manageable.

You gotta be careful with that shit too, it'll fuck up your guts. Being reliant on drugs is pretty much a bad thing whatever their type, booze, cannabis, paracetamol, tramadol...

[bogan]

If Tramadol had adverse effects, I would have gone onto something else years ago.

Doesn't seem like many at all does it... (https://www.drugs.com/pro/tramadol-tablets.html)

Contraindications
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets should not be administered to patients who have previously demonstrated hypersensitivity to tramadol, any other component of this product or opioids. Tramadol hydrochloride is contraindicated in any situation where opioids are contraindicated, including acute intoxication with any of the following: alcohol, hypnotics, narcotics, centrally acting analgesics, opioids or psychotropic drugs. Tramadol may worsen central nervous system and respiratory depression in these patients.

Warnings
Seizure Risk
Seizures have been reported in patients receiving tramadol hydrochloride tablets within the recommended dosage range. Spontaneous post-marketing reports indicate that seizure risk is increased with doses of tramadol hydrochloride tablets above the recommended range. Concomitant use of tramadol hydrochloride tablets increases the seizure risk in patients taking:

•
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI antidepressants or anorectics),
•
Tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs), and other tricyclic compounds (e.g., cyclobenzaprine, promethazine, etc.), or
•
Other opioids.
Administration of tramadol hydrochloride tablets may enhance the seizure risk in patients taking:

•
MAO inhibitors (see also WARNINGS - Use with MAO inhibitors, and Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors)
•
Neuroleptics, or
•
Other drugs that reduce the seizure threshold.
Risk of convulsions may also increase in patients with epilepsy, those with a history of seizures, or in patients with a recognized risk for seizure (such as head trauma, metabolic disorders, alcohol and drug withdrawal, CNS infections). In tramadol hydrochloride tablets overdose, naloxone administration may increase the risk of seizure.

Suicide Risk
Do not prescribe tramadol hydrochloride tablets for patients who are suicidal or addiction-prone.

Prescribe tramadol hydrochloride tablets with caution for patients who are taking tranquilizers or antidepressant drug and patients who use alcohol in excess and who suffer from emotional disturbance or depression.

The judicious prescribing of tramadol is essential to the safe use of this drug. With patients who are depressed or suicidal, consideration should be given to the use of non-narcotic analgesics.

Tramadol-related deaths have occurred in patients with previous histories of emotional disturbances or suicidal ideation or attempts as well as histories of misuse of tranquilizers, alcohol, and other CNS-active drugs (see WARNINGS, Risk of Overdosage).

Serotonin Syndrome Risk
The development of a potentially life-threatening serotonin syndrome may occur with the use of tramadol products, including tramadol hydrochloride tablets, particularly with concomitant use of serotonergic drugs such as SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, MAOIs, and triptans, with drugs which impair metabolism of serotonin (including MAOIs), and with drugs which impair metabolism of tramadol (CYP2D6 and CYP3A4 inhibitors). This may occur within the recommended dose (see CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY, Pharmacokinetics).

Serotonin syndrome may include mental-status changes (e.g., agitation, hallucinations, coma), autonomic instability (e.g., tachycardia, labile blood pressure, hyperthermia), neuromuscular aberrations (e.g., hyperreflexia, incoordination) and/or gastrointestinal symptoms (e.g., nausea, vomiting, diarrhea).

Anaphylactoid Reactions
Serious and rarely fatal anaphylactoid reactions have been reported in patients receiving therapy with tramadol hydrochloride tablets. When these events do occur it is often following the first dose. Other reported allergic reactions include pruritus, hives, bronchospasm, angioedema, toxic epidermal necrolysis and Stevens Johnson syndrome. Patients with a history of anaphylactoid reactions to codeine and other opioids may be at increased risk and therefore should not receive tramadol hydrochloride tablets (see CONTRAINDICATIONS).

Respiratory Depression
Administer tramadol hydrochloride tablets cautiously in patients at risk for respiratory depression. In these patients alternative non-opioid analgesics should be considered. When large doses of tramadol hydrochloride tablets are administered with anesthetic medications or alcohol, respiratory depression may result. Respiratory depression should be treated as an overdose. If naloxone is to be administered, use cautiously because it may precipitate seizures (see WARNINGS, Seizure Risk and OVERDOSAGE ).

Interaction with Central Nervous System (CNS) Depressants
Tramadol should be used with caution and in reduced dosages when administered to patients receiving CNS depressants such as alcohol, opioids, anesthetic agents, narcotics, phenothiazines, tranquilizers or sedative hypnotics. Tramadol increases the risk of CNS and respiratory depression in these patients.

Interactions with Alcohol and Drugs of Abuse
Tramadol may be expected to have additive effects when used in conjunction with alcohol, other opioids, or illicit drugs that cause central nervous system depression.

Increased Intracranial Pressure or Head Trauma
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets should be used with caution in patients with increased intracranial pressure or head injury. The respiratory depressant effects of opioids include carbon dioxide retention and secondary elevation of cerebrospinal fluid pressure, and may be markedly exaggerated in these patients. Additionally, pupillary changes (miosis) from tramadol may obscure the existence, extent, or course of intracranial pathology. Clinicians should also maintain a high index of suspicion for adverse drug reaction when evaluating altered mental status in these patients if they are receiving tramadol hydrochloride tablets. (See WARNINGS, Respiratory Depression)

Use in Ambulatory Patients
Tramadol may impair the mental and or physical abilities required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks such as driving a car or operating machinery. The patients using this drug should be cautioned accordingly.

Use with MAO Inhibitors and serotonin re-uptake inhibitors
Use tramadol hydrochloride tablets with great caution in patients taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors. Animal studies have shown increased deaths with combined administration. Concomitant use of tramadol hydrochloride tablets with MAO inhibitors or SSRI's increases the risk of adverse events, including seizure and serotonin syndrome.

Misuse, Abuse and Diversion
Tramadol has mu-opioid agonist activity. Tramadol hydrochloride tablets can be sought by drug abusers and people with addiction disorders and may be subject to criminal diversion. The possibility of illegal or illicit use should be considered when prescribing or dispensing Tramadol hydrochloride tablets in situations where the physician or pharmacist is concerned about an increased risk of misuse, abuse, or diversion. Misuse or abuse poses a significant risk to the abuser that could result in overdose and death (see DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE and OVERDOSAGE).

Concerns about abuse, addiction, and diversion should not prevent the proper management of pain. The development of addiction to opioid analgesics in properly managed patients with pain has been reported to be rare. However, data are not available to establish the true incidence of addiction in chronic pain patients.

Risk of Overdosage
Patients taking tramadol should be warned not to exceed the dose recommended by their physician. Tramadol products in excessive doses, either alone or in combination with other CNS depressants, including alcohol, are a cause of drug-related deaths. Patients should be cautioned about the concomitant use of tramadol products and alcohol because of potentially serious CNS additive effects of these agents. Because of its added depressant effects, tramadol should be prescribed with caution for those patients whose medical condition requires the concomitant administration of sedatives, tranquilizers, muscle relaxants, antidepressants, or other CNS depressant drugs. Patients should be advised of the additive depressant effects of these combinations.

Serious potential consequences of overdosage with tramadol hydrochloride tablets are central nervous system depression, respiratory depression and death. Some deaths have occurred as a consequence of the accidental ingestion of excessive quantities of tramadol alone or in combination with other drugs. In treating an overdose, primary attention should be given to maintaining adequate ventilation along with general supportive treatment (see OVERDOSAGE).

Withdrawal
Withdrawal symptoms may occur if tramadol hydrochloride tablets are discontinued abruptly. (See also DRUG ABUSE and DEPENDENCE) Reported symptoms have included anxiety, sweating, insomnia, rigors, pain, nausea, tremors, diarrhea, upper respiratory symptoms, piloerection, and rarely hallucinations. Other symptoms that have been reported less frequently with tramadol hydrochloride tablets discontinuation include panic attacks, severe anxiety, and paresthesias. Clinical experience suggests that withdrawal symptoms may be avoided by tapering tramadol hydrochloride tablets at the time of discontinuation.

Precautions
Acute Abdominal Conditions
The administration of tramadol hydrochloride tablets may complicate the clinical assessment of patients with acute abdominal conditions.

Use in Renal and Hepatic Disease
Impaired renal function results in a decreased rate and extent of excretion of tramadol and its active metabolite, M1. In patients with creatinine clearances of less than 30 mL/min, dosing reduction is recommended (see DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).

Metabolism of tramadol and M1 is reduced in patients with advanced cirrhosis of the liver. In cirrhotic patients, dosing reduction is recommended (see DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).

With the prolonged half-life in these conditions, achievement of steady-state is delayed, so that it may take several days for elevated plasma concentrations to develop.

Information for Patients
•
Patients should be informed that tramadol hydrochloride tablets may cause seizures and/or serotonin syndrome with concomitant use of serotonergic agents (including SSRIs, SNRIs, and triptans) or drugs that significantly reduce the metabolic clearance of tramadol.
•
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets may impair mental or physical abilities required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks such as driving a car or operating machinery.
•
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets should not be taken with alcohol containing beverages.
•
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets should be used with caution when taking medications such as tranquilizers, hypnotics or other opiate containing analgesics.
•
The patient should be instructed to inform the physician if they are pregnant, think they might become pregnant, or are trying to become pregnant (see PRECAUTIONS: Labor and Delivery).
•
The patient should understand the single-dose and 24-hour dose limit and the time interval between doses, since exceeding these recommendations can result in respiratory depression, seizures and death.
Drug Interactions
CYP2D6 and CYP3A4 Inhibitors
Concomitant administration of CYP2D6 and/or CYP3A4 inhibitors (see CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY, Pharmacokinetics), such as quinidine, fluoxetine, paroxetine and amitriptyline (CYP2D6 inhibitors), and ketoconazole and erythromycin (CYP3A4 inhibitors), may reduce metabolic clearance of tramadol increasing the risk for serious adverse events including seizures and serotonin syndrome.

Serotonergic Drugs
There have been postmarketing reports of serotonin syndrome with use of tramadol and SSRIs/SNRIs or MAOIs and α2-adrenergic blockers. Caution is advised when tramadol hydrochloride tablet is coadministered with other drugs that may affect the serotonergic neurotransmitter systems, such as SSRIs, MAOIs, triptans, linezolid (an antibiotic which is a reversible non-selective MAOI), lithium, or St. John's Wort. If concomitant treatment of tramadol hydrochloride tablet with a drug affecting the serotonergic neurotransmitter system is clinically warranted, careful observation of the patient is advised, particularly during treatment initiation and dose increases (see WARNINGS, Serotonin Syndrome).

Triptans
Based on the mechanism of action of tramadol and the potential for serotonin syndrome, caution is advised when tramadol hydrochloride tablet is coadministered with a triptan. If concomitant treatment of tramadol hydrochloride tablet with a triptan is clinically warranted, careful observation of the patient is advised, particularly during treatment initiation and dose increases (see WARNINGS, Serotonin Syndrome).

Use with Carbamazepine
Patients taking carbamazepine may have a significantly reduced analgesic effect of tramadol hydrochloride tablets. Because carbamazepine increases tramadol metabolism and because of the seizure risk associated with tramadol, concomitant administration of tramadol hydrochloride tablets and carbamazepine is not recommended.

Use with Quinidine
Tramadol is metabolized to M1 by CYP2D6. Quinidine is a selective inhibitor of that isoenzyme, so that concomitant administration of quinidine and tramadol hydrochloride tablets results in increased concentrations of tramadol and reduced concentrations of M1. The clinical consequences of these findings are unknown. In vitro drug interaction studies in human liver microsomes indicate that tramadol has no effect on quinidine metabolism.

Potential for Other Drugs to Affect Tramadol
In vitro drug interaction studies in human liver microsomes indicate that concomitant administration with inhibitors of CYP2D6 such as fluoxetine, paroxetine, and amitriptyline could result in some inhibition of the metabolism of tramadol. Administration of CYP3A4 inhibitors, such as ketoconazole and erythromycin, or inducers, such as rifampin and St. John's Wort, with tramadol hydrochloride tablet may affect the metabolism of tramadol leading to altered tramadol exposure.

Potential for Tramadol to Affect Other Drugs
In vitro studies indicate that tramadol is unlikely to inhibit the CYP3A4-mediated metabolism of other drugs when tramadol is administered concomitantly at therapeutic doses. Tramadol does not appear to induce its own metabolism in humans, since observed maximal plasma concentrations after multiple oral doses are higher than expected based on single-dose data. Tramadol is a mild inducer of selected drug metabolism pathways measured in animals.

Use with Cimetidine
Concomitant administration of tramadol hydrochloride tablets with cimetidine does not result in clinically significant changes in tramadol pharmacokinetics. Therefore, no alteration of the tramadol hydrochloride tablets dosage regimen is recommended.

Use with Digoxin and Warfarin
Post-marketing surveillance has revealed rare reports of digoxin toxicity and alteration of warfarin effect, including elevation of prothrombin times.

Carcinogenesis, Mutagenesis, Impairment of Fertility
A slight, but statistically significant, increase in two common murine tumors, pulmonary and hepatic, was observed in a mouse carcinogenicity study, particularly in aged mice. Mice were dosed orally up to 30 mg/kg (90 mg/m2 or 0.36 times the maximum daily human dosage of 246 mg/ m2) for approximately two years, although the study was not done with the Maximum Tolerated Dose. This finding is not believed to suggest risk in humans. No such finding occurred in a rat carcinogenicity study (dosing orally up to 30 mg/kg, 180 mg/ m2, or 0.73 times the maximum daily human dosage).

Tramadol was not mutagenic in the following assays: Ames Salmonella microsomal activation test, CHO/HPRT mammalian cell assay, mouse lymphoma assay (in the absence of metabolic activation), dominant lethal mutation tests in mice, chromosome aberration test in Chinese hamsters, and bone marrow micronucleus tests in mice and Chinese hamsters. Weakly mutagenic results occurred in the presence of metabolic activation in the mouse lymphoma assay and micronucleus test in rats. Overall, the weight of evidence from these tests indicates that tramadol does not pose a genotoxic risk to humans.

No effects on fertility were observed for tramadol at oral dose levels up to 50 mg/kg (300 mg/ m2) in male rats and 75 mg/kg (450 mg/ m2) in female rats. These dosages are 1.2 and 1.8 times the maximum daily human dosage of 246 mg/ m2, respectively.

Pregnancy
Teratogenic Effects: Pregnancy Category C

Tramadol has been shown to be embryotoxic and fetotoxic in mice, (120 mg/kg or 360 mg/m2 ) rats (≥25 mg/kg or 150 mg/m2 ) and rabbits (≥75 mg/kg or 900 mg/m2 ) at maternally toxic doses, but was not teratogenic at these dose levels. These dosages on a mg/m2 basis are 1.4, ≥0.6, and ≥3.6 times the maximum daily human dosage (246 mg/m2) for mouse, rat and rabbit, respectively.

No drug-related teratogenic effects were observed in progeny of mice, (up to 140 mg/kg or 420 mg/m2 ), rats (up to 80 mg/kg or 480 mg/m2 ) or rabbits (up to 300 mg/kg or 3600 mg/m2 ) treated with tramadol by various routes. Embryo and fetal toxicity consisted primarily of decreased fetal weights, skeletal ossification and increased supernumerary ribs at maternally toxic dose levels. Transient delays in developmental or behavioral parameters were also seen in pups from rat dams allowed to deliver. Embryo and fetal lethality were 2 reported only in one rabbit study at 300 mg/kg (3600 mg/m2 ), a dose that would cause extreme maternal toxicity in the rabbit. The dosages listed for mouse, rat and rabbit are 1.7, 1.9 and 14.6 times the maximum daily human dosage (246 mg/m2 ), respectively.

Non-teratogenic Effects

Tramadol was evaluated in peri- and post-natal studies in rats. Progeny of dams receiving oral (gavage) dose levels of 50 mg/kg (300 mg/m2 or 1.2 times the maximum daily human tramadol dosage) or greater had decreased weights, and pup survival was decreased early in lactation at 80 mg/kg (480 mg/m2 or 1.9 and higher the maximum daily human dose).

There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Tramadol hydrochloride tablets should be used during pregnancy only if the potential benefit justifies the potential risk to the fetus. Neonatal seizures, neonatal withdrawal syndrome, fetal death and still birth have been reported during post-marketing.

Labor and Delivery
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets should not be used in pregnant women prior to or during labor unless the potential benefits out-weigh the risks. Safe use in pregnancy has not been established. Chronic use during pregnancy may lead to physical dependence and post-partum withdrawal symptoms in the newborn. (See DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE). Tramadol has been shown to cross the placenta. The mean ratio of serum tramadol in the umbilical veins compared to maternal veins was 0.83 for 40 women given tramadol during labor.

The effect of tramadol hydrochloride tablets, if any, on the later growth, development, and functional maturation of the child is unknown.

Nursing Mothers
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets are not recommended for obstetrical preoperative medication or for post- delivery analgesia in nursing mothers because its safety in infants and newborns has not been studied. Following a single IV 100 mg dose of tramadol, the cumulative excretion in breast milk within 16 hours post-dose was 100 µg of tramadol (0.1% of the maternal dose) and 27 µg of M1.

Pediatric Use
The safety and efficacy of tramadol hydrochloride tablets in patients under 16 years of age have not been established. The use of tramadol in the pediatric population is not recommended.

Geriatric Use
In general, dose selection for an elderly patient should be cautious, usually starting at the low end of the dosing range, reflecting the greater frequency of decreased hepatic, renal or cardiac function and of concomitant disease or other drug therapy. In patients over 75 years of age, daily doses in excess of 300 mg are not recommended. (see CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY and DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).

A total of 455 elderly (65 years of age or older) subjects were exposed to tramadol hydrochloride tablets in controlled clinical trials. Of those, 145 subjects were 75 years of age and older.

In studies including geriatric patients, treatment-limiting adverse events were higher in subjects over 75 years of age compared to those under 65 years of age. Specifically, 30% of those over 75 years of age had gastrointestinal treatment-limiting adverse events compared to 17% of those under 65 years of age. Constipation resulted in discontinuation of treatment in 10% of those over 75.

Adverse Reactions
Tramadol hydrochloride tablets were administered to 550 patients during the double-blind or open-label extension periods in U.S. studies of chronic nonmalignant pain. Of these patients, 375 were 65 years old or older. Table 2 reports the cumulative incidence rate of adverse reactions by 7, 30, and 90 days for the most frequent reactions (5% or more by 7 days). The most frequently reported events were in the central nervous system and gastrointestinal system. Although the reactions listed in the table are felt to be probably related to tramadol hydrochloride tablets administration, the reported rates also include some events that may have been due to underlying disease or concomitant medication. The overall incidence rates of adverse experiences in these trials were similar for tramadol hydrochloride tablets and the active control groups, TYLENOL® with codeine #3 (acetaminophen 300 mg with codeine phosphate 30 mg), and aspirin 325 mg with codeine phosphate 30 mg, however, the rates of withdrawals due to adverse events appeared to be higher in the tramadol hydrochloride groups. [TYLENOL® is the registered trademark of McNeil Consumer Healthcare and TYLOX® is the registered trademark of RW Johnson].

Incidence 1% to less than 5%, possibly causally related: the following lists adverse reactions that occurred with an incidence of 1% to less than 5% in clinical trials, and for which the possibility of a causal relationship with tramadol hydrochloride tablets exists.

Body as a Whole: Malaise.

Cardiovascular: Vasodilation.

Central Nervous System: Anxiety, Confusion, Coordination disturbance, Euphoria, Miosis, Nervousness, Sleep disorder.

Gastrointestinal: Abdominal pain, Anorexia, Flatulence.

Musculoskeletal: Hypertonia.

Skin: Rash.

Special Senses: Visual disturbance.

Urogenital: Menopausal symptoms, Urinary frequency, Urinary retention.

Incidence less than 1%, possibly causally related: the following lists adverse reactions that occurred with an incidence of less than 1% in clinical trials and/or reported in post-marketing experience.

Body as a Whole: Accidental injury, Allergic reaction, Anaphylaxis, Death, Suicidal tendency, Weight loss, Serotonin syndrome (mental status change, hyperreflexia, fever, shivering, tremor, agitation, diaphoresis, seizures and coma).

Cardiovascular: Orthostatic hypotension, Syncope, Tachycardia.

Central Nervous System: Abnormal gait, Amnesia, Cognitive dysfunction, Depression, Difficulty in concentration, Hallucinations, Paresthesia, Seizure (see WARNINGS), Tremor.

Respiratory: Dyspnea.

Skin: Stevens-Johnson syndrome/Toxic epidermal necrolysis, Urticaria, Vesicles.

Special Senses: Dysgeusia.

Urogenital: Dysuria, Menstrual disorder.

Other adverse experiences, causal relationship unknown: A variety of other adverse events were reported infrequently in patients taking tramadol hydrochloride tablets during clinical trials and/or reported in post-marketing experience. A causal relationship between tramadol hydrochloride tablets and these events has not been determined. However, the most significant events are listed below as alerting information to the physician.

Cardiovascular: Abnormal ECG, Hypertension, Hypotension, Myocardial ischemia, Palpitations, Pulmonary edema, Pulmonary embolism.

Central Nervous System: Migraine, Speech disorders.

Gastrointestinal: Gastrointestinal bleeding, Hepatitis, Stomatitis, Liver failure.

Laboratory Abnormalities: Creatinine increase, Elevated liver enzymes, Hemoglobin decrease, Proteinuria.

Sensory: Cataracts, Deafness, Tinnitus.

[Katman]

But, but, but........

......it's government approved.

[Madness]

Come on guys, you know it isn't fair to engage in discussion with Ed after 4pm :yawn:

[Katman]

Interesting poll result.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/87388713/Legal-cannabis-in-NZ-Green-Party-offers-green-light-to-pot-smokers

[mashman]

Interesting poll result.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/87388713/Legal-cannabis-in-NZ-Green-Party-offers-green-light-to-pot-smokers

Should do a Portugal and just get on with it.

[onearmedbandit]

Don't know if this has been posted up but anyway...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zNT8Zo_sfwo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Edbear]

Don't know if this has been posted up but anyway...

<>

There was a segment on the Teev the other night about using ultrasound waves concentrated through a "halo" to target the parts of the brain that were misfiring and causing tremors. The effectiveness was complete and instant! The Doc. said it could be a breakthrough in treatment of Parkinson's and other such illnesses.