Fingerprints

[Littleman]

Please do not take offence with little bits of information I provide in this forum, such as it is a crime to "Drive" other wise you would not need a "Drivers Licence", with the corresponding loss of freedom.

My intention is only to inform those who are want to hear my points related to this topic on the suggested further loss of freedom.

Most people in todays society can not hear the truth of how we are enslaved, as it comes at too high a personal cost to accept that it has happened. I can understand this as few feel they can pay the cost to be free to take responsibility for themselves. The limited liability provided by a loss of freedom has always been sold as a benifit.

Governmental society today functions on the lack of education and apthay in the people. People dont know and dont care.

Tell me all those who say you need a "Drivers Licence" to travel, did you read the relavent Acts, statues and regulations before you went and got it? and if it effects you in some way, why not?

My god.... its Peter WILLIAMS QC!!!

[rwh]

Wouldn't they have the ability to read your iris from the photos taken?

I doubt it very much, from the crappy little consumer grade camera they were using at VTNZ for mine.

Richard

[peasea]

They'll do what they want, take what they want and make of it what they want. You can protest your freakin' head off, it'll do no good. Look at your lifetime license; that was just another broken government contract....

Your details aren't private anyway and if you believe that they are you've got rocks in your head. Fingerprints are just another way of identifying people, whether they've broken the law or become a victim of a serious crime etc etc.

I don't rape old ladies, rip off people's homes, property or vegetable patches. As it happens the cops already have my prints, so what do I care? We're all on camera on a day-to-day basis, they know what you spend (on what) at the supermarket every day through EFTPOS transactions, what place you spent it at blah blah blah. You wanna be safe? Get banged up in Parry; get a roof over your head, (rent free, with electricity 24/7), get fed, get your teeth fixed, make all the best business contacts in the world and not have to work a day to pay for any of it! Get a degree while you're at it.

Being an honest, hard working, humble, middle-aged heterosexual makes you an easy target; we're a minority group don't you know?

Show them you're different, show them you're special; make a stand!

Give them your prints.

[Biff]

Wouldn't they have the ability to read your iris from the photos taken? the picture of you on your licence is a thumbnail but im sure the picture stored is a larger size. Isnt a persons iris another form of unique identity like finger prints? I see a drivers licence as a stage 1 ID card. You gotta start somewhere right, and have a reason for people to comply and accept it.

No mate. They use special imaging techniques, including infra read illumination of your retina, and then use the information gleaned in conjunction with a specifically developed algorithm (the Dougman algorithm - he's also from Cambridge funnily enough, albeit Cambridge UK). The result = an almost unique personal mapping of your retina.

Need more guff - then Google is your friend. Or give me $400k and I'll arrange for a mate of mine to sell you your own retina scanning setup so you can impress your friends.

[craigs288]

Its not a case of if I havent done anything wrong what have I got to hide. You could say that about anything... like bugging our cellphones, listening in on our conversations.. if you have nothing to hide it shouldnt bother you, but it would right! Its an invasion of privacy.

If I was pulled over at a checkpoint and the officer checked my WOF and Rego, Driver's Licence and ask me to breathe my name and address into the breathalyser, and then they also want me to provide finger prints, do I have the right to ask the officer to provide me with similar details.

I mean, if I am expected to front up with all those personal details when I have obviously done nothing wrong, obviously I am not a criminal. But the police aren't mind readers and a criminal would lie.
But I'm not a mind reader either and how do I know it is really a police officer, when it could be a criminal posing as a police officer to try and steal my identity, or gain information to aid them for a later burgling of my property.
If the police officer had nothing to hide then they wouldn't have any problem providing me with all their details, like the ones they expect from me. They might feel I am invading their privacy. But are they not like the government ministers and all other government employees. Paid for by my taxes and employed to serve me and all other tax paying New Zealanders. I would be asking an employee of mine to provide their personal details. It would have nothing to do with whether they have committed a crime or plan to in the future. I'm just trying to build a database of all my police that I employ.

[ManDownUnder]

If the police officer had nothing to hide then they wouldn't have any problem providing me with all their details, like the ones they expect from me. They might feel I am invading their privacy. But are they not like the government ministers and all other government employees. Paid for by my taxes and employed to serve me and all other tax paying New Zealanders. I would be asking an employee of mine to provide their personal details. It would have nothing to do with whether they have committed a crime or plan to in the future. I'm just trying to build a database of all my police that I employ.

They'll give you ID and a phone number to call (or you look up the number yourself).

You're always allowed to check the ID of any authority, any time, any where. But... unless you are a cop yourself don't go pushing "your reciprocal rights". You don't have 'em. It's a great way to piss off the police and it's about that point your life gets slightly more miserable with every sentence you start.

[Patrick]

If I was pulled over at a checkpoint and the officer checked my WOF and Rego, Driver's Licence and ask me to breathe my name and address into the breathalyser, and then they also want me to provide finger prints, do I have the right to ask the officer to provide me with similar details.

I mean, if I am expected to front up with all those personal details when I have obviously done nothing wrong, obviously I am not a criminal. But the police aren't mind readers and a criminal would lie.
But I'm not a mind reader either and how do I know it is really a police officer, when it could be a criminal posing as a police officer to try and steal my identity, or gain information to aid them for a later burgling of my property.
If the police officer had nothing to hide then they wouldn't have any problem providing me with all their details, like the ones they expect from me. They might feel I am invading their privacy. But are they not like the government ministers and all other government employees. Paid for by my taxes and employed to serve me and all other tax paying New Zealanders. I would be asking an employee of mine to provide their personal details. It would have nothing to do with whether they have committed a crime or plan to in the future. I'm just trying to build a database of all my police that I employ.

We can, you can't... And your taxes go to the dole bludging gang bangers...

[Krusti]

Getting a little concerned with the direction these new laws are going.....

Pulled over by officer
Name please...
Blow on this...
put your finger in this hole...

What next?

[ManDownUnder]

Getting a little concerned with the direction these new laws are going.....

Pulled over by officer
Name please...
Blow on this...
put your finger in this hole...

What next?

...face away and touch your toes..

[scumdog]

If I was pulled over at a checkpoint and the officer checked my WOF and Rego, Driver's Licence and ask me to breathe my name and address into the breathalyser, and then they also want me to provide finger prints, do I have the right to ask the officer to provide me with similar details.

I mean, if I am expected to front up with all those personal details when I have obviously done nothing wrong, obviously I am not a criminal. But the police aren't mind readers and a criminal would lie.
But I'm not a mind reader either and how do I know it is really a police officer, when it could be a criminal posing as a police officer to try and steal my identity, or gain information to aid them for a later burgling of my property.
If the police officer had nothing to hide then they wouldn't have any problem providing me with all their details, like the ones they expect from me. They might feel I am invading their privacy. But are they not like the government ministers and all other government employees. Paid for by my taxes and employed to serve me and all other tax paying New Zealanders. I would be asking an employee of mine to provide their personal details. It would have nothing to do with whether they have committed a crime or plan to in the future. I'm just trying to build a database of all my police that I employ.

Youve' done 'nothing wrong' and the cop's meant to 'know' that without any checks??
So who is going to provide you with a finger-print scanner and data-base to check the prints against?
(Otherwise how WOULD you know if it was a criminal intent on burgling your place??)

But nice troll anyway!!

[craigs288]

You dumb fucking arse - you would be a criminal if you DIDN'T have a licence!!

How the hell is driving a criminal act???

BTW Top troll laddie!!!

I wouldn't have thought driving was a criminal act. Only driving without a licence is a criminal act.
Having a licence just proves you chose not to break any laws for the duration of your test while being observed. Whether you choose to do so after you drive away with your new licence is irrelevant. Until you get caught. Or until you enter a roadside WOF and Rego check and get asked to prove you are who you really say you are.

So, assuming that I have a current licence, have committed no crimes that I am wanted for, am not currently breaking any laws, and I am stopped at a roadside check. WOF and Rego are all good and the officer asks for my licence. I say "Sorry I don't have it on me, but here is my passport with a photo of myself, including my details which you can check against the vehicle details in your database". A quick check would confirm that I am who I say I am, have committed no crimes, am not wanted for anything and hold a current valid licence.
But I could still get a ticket for not having the licence, even though its only use would be to identify me based on the photo and details, which was still done without the licence.
The only use my licence is to me is as a photo identifier, and to stop the inconvenience of getting a ticket for not having it.
Whether or not I have a licence in my pocket has no relevance to the way I drive on any given day or whether or not the activities I chose to engage in are considered criminal by your government on any given day.

[craigs288]

Would everyone be happier if it was an open system that anyone could use?

I for one would be quiet happy if there was a quick check I could do against someone that given say their Driver's license number would return their photo, and given their finger print their driver's license photo so that if they didn't match I could go "eh?".

Don't just give that power to the police. Give it to my bank, so that someone else can't access my accounts faking being me. Give it to the landlords so they can go "um, you owe two grand to your last landlord...". Give it to my local liquor store and bar.

Everyone.

Fantastic idea. Surely if it is an aid to help our publicly funded police to sort the wheat from the chaff, the good guys from the bad guys, it must be a good thing.
Surely if we as a society are expected to behave ourselves, we could also help to police ourselves (or others). All the good law abiding citizens, the good guys, (myself included) with no current criminal convictions can spend their spare time sifting through the database collection picking out the details of all the people who are the bad guys. Then we can go around pointing them out to make it easier for the underfunded and undermanned police to arrest and jail all the bad guys.
In a short amount of time all the bad guys will be in jail and the world will be safe because it will only be us 'good guys' on the streets and we won't need the police, government, or any laws because we would never break them.

[craigs288]

They'll give you ID and a phone number to call (or you look up the number yourself).

You're always allowed to check the ID of any authority, any time, any where. But... unless you are a cop yourself don't go pushing "your reciprocal rights". You don't have 'em. It's a great way to piss off the police and it's about that point your life gets slightly more miserable with every sentence you start.

So even though I have some rights, if I try to exercise them I could end up getting mucked around, and my life made more difficult because I won't meekly comply with every new rule.
So your government has a police force that can detain and harass me at any time, more so if I don't agree with what they are telling me to do, even if I am not a criminal and their database and the details I give prove I've done nothing wrong?
Just because they say jump, and I don't say "how high"?

[craigs288]

We can, you can't... And your taxes go to the dole bludging gang bangers...

Do I have to have a criminal conviction to become a dole bludger? I'm not convinced that I want to be associated with any form of gang, but I like the idea of not working for my money.
Are there extra grants available to me if I did have a conviction and gang association? What about if I was from a certain ethnic background that the government feels needs extra funding based on race, because they have a higher proportion of lazy asses who can't be f&*ked getting off their asses to work hard and create a decent life for themselves.

Now that I think about it, it would probably be better on a sickness benefit.
That way you wouldn't get harassed every few months to go to a job interview. Plus you could probably get some sort of prescription from the doctor to ease your pain, ( real or imagined, physical or emotional ) and just zone out at home, safe in your house (government paying your mortgage) away from all the crims out there on the road.

[craigs288]

Youve' done 'nothing wrong' and the cop's meant to 'know' that without any checks??
So who is going to provide you with a finger-print scanner and data-base to check the prints against?
(Otherwise how WOULD you know if it was a criminal intent on burgling your place??)

But nice troll anyway!!

I realise the police aren't mind readers, which is why I don't mind stopping to give my details. Especially since I am not a criminal.
But I'm not a mind reader, which is why the police shouldn't mind giving their details. Especially if they are not criminals.

Is there any reason the police officer could not place their finger in their own fingerprint scanner? It wouldn't make sense for the public to have to pay for another database and another finger print scanning system when there is already one they have paid for that the police use.
I could listen to any details coming back over the 'tax-paid-for' radio. I would assume that there wouldn't be a match (much like myself) because their fingerprints aren't in the database, because they haven't committed a crime. I would be quite happy to let them go about their business.