Speeding ticket defended

[tigertim20]

The 'Law' is a very precise system. Everything written must be accurate. 'Almost accurate' is not sufficient warrant.

In my case, the officer's log entry shows he mistakenly wrote 17th March then, realising his mistake, and instead of completing a new form (log) he simply changed the date to the 18th. Now the form shows him completing his log on either the 17th or the 18th.

That silly mistake is sufficient to to have the matter discharged.

As I've asserted in earlier posts; track-days and some racing has removed my need to go hard on the roads. In the event I become careless, then I have no problem with paying, but the cop I copped was not a fair cop.

He was parked, facing away from me; on the same side of the road, and nearly 700M distant.

I came into a 70K zone from a 100K zone with a bloody great NZPost truck a few hundred metres behind.

BTW: Having watched Ray Clee amble along toward the start-grid at Puke, at about 10Kph, hands off (look at me Ma!) I've taken up that which is probably a bad habit, but a fun one. From a prescribed distance from a 100K zone into a lesser, I like to sit up, hands off, and let the engine breaking slow me.

There's two tests in this silly habit. The first is being able to sit on the bike hands-free as it slows, without wobbling all over the road....I'm getting there....While the second is to judge the exact moment to snap the throttle closed, hands off the bars, and enter the zone at the exactly required speed. I'm getting really good at judging that.

And that's precisely what I did on the morning of the cop. So I know the cop's radar saw the truck behind, and not me.

Moreover, there's no way in the world could the cop have been sitting in his car, facing away, watching me in his mirror, and accurately determined I had passed into the 70K zone at 101Ks.

These matters I shall argue in court, but if they fail, then I'll produce the log showing the fault mentioned above. Either way, I'll win.

I say good on you for not taking the easy way out and just using the log report. Good on you for seeing it through and proving your case. Too many people knowingly speed, then piss and moan about getting caught. So good onya for not just aking the easy way out.

[Brett]

BTW: Having watched Ray Clee amble along toward the start-grid at Puke, at about 10Kph, hands off (look at me Ma!) I've taken up that which is probably a bad habit, but a fun one. From a prescribed distance from a 100K zone into a lesser, I like to sit up, hands off, and let the engine breaking slow me.

There's two tests in this silly habit. The first is being able to sit on the bike hands-free as it slows, without wobbling all over the road....I'm getting there....While the second is to judge the exact moment to snap the throttle closed, hands off the bars, and enter the zone at the exactly required speed. I'm getting really good at judging that.
.

Thanks for the update. Based on what you're telling me, i could have got off half my tickets!!! Including an $800 one!

My new 'coolness' stunt is to gently slow down at a red light and to stay balanced on the bike without putting my feet down till it goes green again...then to slip the clutch and pull off very efficiently. I pull it off every now and again. A bit safer than some of the other open road stunts often carried out on sportsbikes...

[Renegade]

also there is a 250 metre buffer zone when coming down from a higher speed to a lower speed i.e. 100kph zone down to 70kph zone.

i under stand tickets shouldnt be issued inside this buffer zone and you will get off the ticket, as i recently found out it doesnt work the other way around when going to higher speeds.

So have you measured the distance from this change of speed sign and were you in the buffer zone when you were ticketed and where was the police car parked in relation to the zone??

just a thought

[PirateJafa]

also there is a 250 metre buffer zone when coming down from a higher speed to a lower speed i.e. 100kph zone down to 70kph zone.

i under stand tickets shouldnt be issued inside this buffer zone and you will get off the ticket, as i recently found out it doesnt work the other way around when going to higher speeds.

So have you measured the distance from this change of speed sign and were you in the buffer zone when you were ticketed and where was the police car parked in relation to the zone??

just a thought

Bollocks. I suspect that this is usually mere courtesy from the rozzers, and I'd bloody well hope it is not enshrined in law.

Entering most towns in the countryside, 250 metres after the 50k sign and you're smack in the middle of town, and bloody well shouldn't be doing 100km/h any more.

I can't think of a single decreasing speed limit sign where you do not have enough warning before the sign to slow down sufficiently.

[TimeOut]

also there is a 250 metre buffer zone when coming down from a higher speed to a lower speed i.e. 100kph zone down to 70kph zone.

I was told last week (by a cop) that it is now 150 meters and probably depends which side of bed the cop got out of

[Patch]

He was parked, facing away from me; on the same side of the road, and nearly 700M distant.

good luck proving that - your word against his, unless you have photographic evidence but even then . . .

Either way, I'll win.

pray tell, what is the prize?


Once inside the zone, you're speeding regardless of the distance from said poles - good luck battling the plod, easier just not too get caught

[caseye]

Not to sure how it all works anymore but I thiunk that the courts got a little lenient on the poor old coppers some time back and that they now allow changing dates etc on original forms, long as it's noted.
I hope in this case that it doesn't work for them but be prpepared.
Pity that you couldn't have got the truckie to say he saw the way the copper was parked etc, would definitely have helped your case, but again it's your word against the coppers and in most cases they win.
Anyhow, Damn, Good Luck on the day!

[FROSTY:Me]

I was told last week (by a cop) that it is now 150 meters and probably depends which side of bed the cop got out of

Sorry dude but the "buffer zone" is copspeak for I'll go easy on you.
Once you pass the sighn you are in the different speed zone.
What happens from there when you get caught legally speaking is you get busted for it.

[Patch]

there seems to be an echo in this room

[Winston001]

So - you've got 3 arguments for your defence:

1. You may have been pinged outside the 50kph zone, thus not breaking the law. Depends upon the read range of the radar and whether it also records distance.

2. The radar image might have been the truck - good argument, its important that you were identified as the vehicle detected.

3. The officer's log sheet displays uncertainty as to the date of the offence. I don't know that a judge is going to be very interested because the incorrect date is crossed out, but worth a try. It would be different if there were two dates and neither crossed out. That would be strong evidence of uncertainty.

Keep us posted.

[ynot slow]

Buffer zone a good case and point is Eltham in Taranaki,either end coming into town has either 100km -50km from North or 100km-70km-50km from South,from south though there are a couple of bends from open road to 70km then it goes to 50km in reasonable distance,but almost at the 50km start is the primary school playground,the school entrance though is around the next street.

Numerous times and I travelled this route for 4 1/2 yrs to work daily I would think wtf 50km limit from New Plymouth end after work and still doing 80km maybe 100mtrs inside 50km zone,never got pinged though,but no excuse from me if I was caught.

[Swoop]

3. The officer's log sheet displays uncertainty as to the date of the offence. I don't know that a judge is going to be very interested because the incorrect date is crossed out, but worth a try. It would be different if there were two dates and neither crossed out. That would be strong evidence of uncertainty.

I will guess that the copper will show his ticketbook and show that you were his first taxation customer of the day(???) and he made a simple error in writing down the wrong date, then amended it. The judge may accept this.
He also might accept the fact that the plod issues enough of these to know what the procedure should be and proceed to chuck it out of court.
Only one way to find out. As Winston001 says... "Keep us updated".

[MarkH]

Best of luck - my experience is the cops lie like a carpet in court. Why doesn't pergery apply to them?

Doesn't perjury only apply when someone is sworn in and gives evidence in court and it can be proven that they knowingly lied? I would think that most of the time the defence would be arguing that the cop was mistaken. How often does someone go out to PROVE that the cop knowingly lied?

[Ixion]

Sorry dude but the "buffer zone" is copspeak for I'll go easy on you.
Once you pass the sighn you are in the different speed zone.
What happens from there when you get caught legally speaking is you get busted for it.

Sort of. The 'buffer zone' is not law. But it's more than just a personal discretion thing, because it's publicly stated policy. This policy statement is still on the police website .

States in part

2 Operating Speed Measuring Devices
The following guidelines have been developed to assist frontline officers when conducting this enforcement activity:

• speed measuring devices (including, but not limited to, speedometers and laser and radar devices) are, if operated in or from a vehicle, only to be operated from vehicles owned or operated by NZ Police;
• only members of NZ Police are permitted to operate speed-measuring devices for speed enforcement purposes;
• police members must be certified in the use of the general type of speed measuring equipment being used at the time;
• all speed measuring devices deployed for enforcement purposes must be used in accordance with the Code of Operations (if any) appropriate to the device;
• speed measuring devices may be used in all speed limit areas;
• When enforcement is taking place in an area where drivers are making the transition from a higher speed to a lower speed area, vehicles should not be targeted within 250 metres from the point where the speed limit changes unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as protecting people operating at road works or to ensure the safety of children near schools;
• vehicles used to operate speed-measuring devices from a stationary position must be parked in accordance the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004. Police officers may have a defence against parking related offences under these regulations where the offence was necessary in the performance of duty, but members must be prudent when parking their vehicle and ensure they do so in a safe fashion. For that reason, when selecting a location for stationary operation members must take care that their presence does not increase safety risks (such as lane merges) present at that location;
• all speed measuring devices are to be operated in an overt manner. No form of hidden or camouflaged deployment is to be used, although nothing in these guidelines impugns the use of unmarked Police patrol cars for speed enforcement; and
• staff may use a motor cycle as a power source for a laser speed detector, but are not to pursue speeding motorists themselves when undertaking this activity due to the risk of damage to the laser device. However, this does not apply when speed detection equipment is being operated on a motorcycle as part of a specific trial approved in writing by the National Road Policing Manager.

(My emphasis).

[davereid]

IMHO the crossed out date is the least valuable of your defences.

However the radar does not indentify its target, it does not know its range, and it does not know its size.

I think that you have a reasonable case to argue that the policeman could not prove that you were inside the lower speedlimit when radared, or indeed that you were even the vehicle being registered !

Stalker DOES record both fastest and strongest targets, but I understand that police are not supposed to issue tickets when there are multiple targets "the so called clear tone" principle.

I have put a bit of info on my web page about it www.eslnz.com/radar.html