Three cops shot - 1 dead (Napier, 7 May)

[Madness]

Well I for one am extremely pleased to know that two (of the 105?) of the LAV's that Aunty Helen bought for us have now been deployed. Doing so without breaking down, or being caught speeding is just a bonus on top. What a brilliant purchase.

[MSTRS:Me]

Somehow I doubt that the boys in blue would be have been looking too closely at things like current wof etc...

[piston broke]

Somehow I doubt that the boys in blue would be have been looking too closely at things like current wof etc...

tis true.
but i think they maybe looked at some things tooo closely, and other's no where near enough.
I figure it just sucks for everyone.
peace and love to all involved,i hope you all heal as well as can be expected.

[Timber020]

The sad thing is that the government invaded a mans property, then wondered why he defended himself.

If he had gone to the cop shop and attacked them I'd be happy to jump on the "hes just a psycho" bandwagon, but as far as I'm concerned he was defending his property. I'd personally have no moral qualms with shooting dead trespassers on my property, including the police.

Grand winner of the supreme dumb fuck with the tinfoil hat award.

Most rapists, puppy burners, psychopaths and child molesters think they are above the usual rules of society to, should have and be able to exercise rights well above normal social and moral norms. I hope you enjoy belonging to there club.

[McDuck]

most of them are unemployed for christ sake. What else did they have to do?

Most people got on with their jobs, sure as hell i did...

[Horse]

How about all the village idiots hanging around the cordon, jumping in front of the camera's doing tribe hand signals?

I can assure you they're found in every town and city in the country....

[marty]

(on the guns-for-cops argument) these guys have plenty of guns and firepower lying about and immediately available - didn't help them....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=10571813

[Ixion]

Symbolism is a powerful motivator and cohesive force within subversive groups, be those guerillas, terrorists , rebels or insurrectionists.

For instance. In 1993 US forces in Somalia suffered losses of men and material in the battle of Mogadishu. One symbol of that battle involved the dead body of a US Ranger being mistreated by Somalians. Following the battle, the US withdrew from Somalia . Within the global combat context the withdrawal made sense. It was the correct decision from an accountants perspective. The US losses were trivial on an absolute basis, and further military action would have achieved little.

None the less, some people believe that the withdrawal was a serious strategic error. Because it left unchallenged that symbol of a US serviceman's body being dragged behind a Jeep. That indignity went unpunished (appeared to, anyway).

There are many in the world, inimical to the US who remember that symbol, and take from it a message "You can bloody the nose of the USA and get away with it". That symbol encourages the enemies of the US "They took on the US Marines and won - so we can too". The message is flawed, the conclusion faulty, but the symbolism is powerful to overide such inconvenient truths.

Whenever an imam in a madrass wishes to encourage his 'students' he can remind them of it. It may be argued that the US should have immediately returned with overwhelming force, if only to rebut that message, to replace it with one of "Mess with the US and you WILL be clobbered, hard and fast"

So , likewise, the symbol of the body of that dead policeman is capable of sending a similar message to those in this country inimical to the state :

"He was only one guy on his own and he held off the police the anti terrorist squad the AOS , the army , even tanks for two days. They even had to leave the body of one of their own men rotting for two days. We are many. If they cannot clobber one man on his own, how could they stop so many of us. And we will not be so wimpy as to kill ourselves", some may reason.

Yes, that message is also flawed, that conclusion also faulty. But the symbolism of that dead cop lying there for two days is powerful. And there are groups in NZ receptive to that message. Forget Al-Queada, we have our own troublemakers.

For PC Plod to stand back and wait is sensible and effective. No one expects him to engage in a firefight. But once you call in people like the terrorist squad, let alone the Army, you up the ante. And the body was no ordinary body. It was the body of a slain police officer, a symbol of the state. Leaving it there for two days said "Despite having the full power of the State at our command we are powerless in the face of one man".

The decision not to forcibly extract the body of the police officer (and take out the gunman ) in a timely fashion , and send the message "Take down a police officer and you WILL be clobbered hard and fast", was undoubtedly the correct one. From an accountant's perspective.

But the folk taking encouragement from the symbol of that body lying there for two days are not accountants. We in NZ , far from such flashpoints of the world as Somalia, often assume "It couldn't happen here". That belief may be over optimistic. NZ may rue that symbol in years to come .

[MSTRS:Me]

So, the perception of reality is greater than the reality of that reality?

A dead body is a powerful symbol of a bloodied nose, but it is not worth heaping windrows of more. It all depends on off-/de-fensive positions, fields of fire and what is behind the target.
Hmmm, every situation is different, but I suspect that should/when something like this happen again, it will be handled differently because of what has been learned (by both sides) from this event.

[candor]

I'd expected a tank onsite to collect the body much earlier - like when there was a prospect that Snee still lived and a ? need for medical care. Him left lying there like rubbish was utterly unacceptable. Why didn't retrieval under tank cover happen pronto - was it just logistical ie that none were handy, or did they not think of it fast enough? Would like to know at what time the tank was ordered. And yes the gunman is getting hero status - what about his dickhead mate putting a "legend" sign on his roof - Kiwi brand downgraded again.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'd expected a tank onsite to collect the body much earlier - like when there was a prospect that Snee still lived and a ? need for medical care. Him left lying there like rubbish was utterly unacceptable. Why didn't retrieval under tank cover happen pronto - was it just logistical ie that none were handy, or did they not think of it fast enough? Would like to know at what time the tank was ordered. And yes the gunman is getting hero status - what about his dickhead mate putting a "legend" sign on his roof - Kiwi brand downgraded again.

Body was not in a position that would allow any vehicle to get between it and any firing position in the house.
The 'legend' guy will have signed up to a world of hurt, even if he can't be charged with anything.

[Quasievil]

This thread is a crack up, first up was the discussion on what had happened, then came the discussion as to how it should happen and now comes the discussion on what should of happened.............however none of you where there know anything about anything apart from what the media has said, ie you dont know anything and some of you are actually on a fucking high horse preaching your thoughts lol.

move on ........................

[boomer]

This thread is a crack up, first up was the discussion on what had happened, then came the discussion as to how it should happen and now comes the discussion on what should of happened.............however none of you where there know anything about anything apart from what the media has said, ie you dont know anything and some of you are actually on a fucking high horse preaching your thoughts lol.

move on ........................

Were you there?

[SARGE]

Symbolism is a powerful motivator and cohesive force within subversive groups, be those guerillas, terrorists , rebels or insurrectionists. For instance. In 1993 US forces in Somalia suffered losses of men and material in the battle of Mogadishu. One symbol of that battle involved the dead body of a US Marine (Sorry Sarge, no offence) being mistreated by Somalians. Following the battle, the US withdrew from Somalia . Within the global combat context the withdrawal made sense. It was the correct decision from an accountants perspective. The US losses were trivial on an absolute basis, and further military action would have achieved little. None the less, some people believe that the withdrawal was a serious strategic error. Because it left unchallenged that symbol of a US serviceman's body being dragged behind a Jeep. That indignity went unpunished (appeared to, anyway). There are many in the world, inimical to the US who remember that symbol, and take from it a message "You can bloody the nose of the USA and get away with it". That symbol encourages the enemies of the US "They took on the US Marines and won - so we can too". The message is flawed, the conclusion faulty, but the symbolism is powerful to overide such inconvenient truths. Whenever an imam in a madrass wishes to encourage his 'students' he can remind them of it. It may be argued that the US should have immediately returned with overwhelming force, if only to rebut that message, to replace it with one of "Mess with the US and you WILL be clobbered, hard and fast" So , likewise, the symbol of the body of that dead policeman is capable of sending a similar message to those in this country inimical to the state : "He was only one guy on his own and he held off the police the anti terrorist squad the AOS , the army , even tanks for two days. They even had to leave the body of one of their own men rotting for two days. We are many. If they cannot clobber one man on his own, how could they stop so many of us. And we will not be so wimpy as to kill ourselves", some may reason. Yes, that message is also flawed, that conclusion also faulty. But the symbolism of that dead cop lying there for two days is powerful. And there are groups in NZ receptive to that message. Forget Al-Queada, we have our own troublemakers. For PC Plod to stand back and wait is sensible and effective. No one expects him to engage in a firefight. But once you call in people like the terrorist squad, let alone the Army, you up the ante. And the body was no ordinary body. It was the body of a slain police officer, a symbol of the state. Leaving it there for two days said "Despite having the full power of the State at our command we are powerless in the face of one man". The decision not to forcibly extract the body of the police officer (and take out the gunman ) in a timely fashion , and send the message "Take down a police officer and you WILL be clobbered hard and fast", was undoubtedly the correct one. From an accountant's perspective. But the folk taking encouragement from the symbol of that body lying there for two days are not accountants. We in NZ , far from such flashpoints of the world as Somalia, often assume "It couldn't happen here". That belief may be over optimistic. NZ may rue that symbol in years to come .

no offense taken bro.. but your facts are slightly off..

the troops involved in the Battle of the Black Sea were US Army Rangers and members of the 10th Mountain division of the US Army as well as US Army Blackhawk and Cobra Helo's. no US Marines there.


when my shit went down 10 years prior to Mogadishu (1983, Beirut ), then President Ron Regan decided to pull the peacekeeping troops out of Lebanon and station us on a CBG offshore as a rapid response division. that in itself told Hezbolla that they US was a paper tiger. the individual Marines i served with wanted blood on the day ( many of us still do) but the suits in Washington decided to pull back.


i didnt join the USMC to be safe ...certainly didnt do all that 'marching band' training to be sitting 12 miles offshore.


im in favor of making the thought of war so horrible that no-one ever wants to do it again .. i mean get medieval a few times with the enemy to get the word around and the next 50 years or so is sorted


explain THAT to the hippies though.. sheesh

[Ixion]

Correction noted and made (not quite sure of the difference , but). Ranger, not Marine