Some more ideas on growing the Nationals

[Tony.OK]

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

Poos are you talking the 600 or 1000 class here?

I've already got the TTX and 25mm Ohlins that'll go straight into a newer bike (open prod SBK), that'd mean I'd have to go backwards if I was to buy a new stock engined bike.
The proposed rule for Open Prod SBK (privateer cup) allows for full susp at the moment, its more about saving $$ on engine work, susp doesn't even come close to the amounts that could be spent on engine internals.

[GSVR]

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

Why not just let Robert work out the suspension specification for the privateer classes. After all he is the most experienced guy in the country concerning these matters!

[Robert Taylor]

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

TTX has now almost completely replaced the 46PRXLS range for sportbikes, its current and future and in real terms the price is much the same.
Respecing oem with pistons works only to a point. The oem ZX6 07 cartridge was a swaged together sealed for life unit and would have cost a sizable sum to upspec, I believe this insidious trend will continue in many future bikes. Once the pr hype subsides re the BPF forks people will be attuned to the shortcomings that will rise to the surface ( and always do with every production fork as there are always cost control issues in manufacturing ) We are removing a set of BPF pistons soon and fitting cartridges very soon.

[Robert Taylor]

Why not just let Robert work out the suspension specification for the privateer classes. After all he is the most experienced guy in the country concerning these matters!

In all fairness all the main suspension suppliers ( really only Rays excellent WP stuff and Ohlins are fully active and with full backup ) should get a bite of the cherry and be allowed to operate in a competitive environment. If it transpires that stock / oem units are only allowed to be run I still steadfastly maintain that revalving should be allowed ( respringing is not always a cure all ) and that removes a policing problem.

Having said that though if a bulk order was forwarded for rear TTX ( for example ) we could organise with Ohlins some substanial cost cutting measures such as substituting the hydraulic preloaders with normal lockrings, although that may create an access for adjustment issue on models such as CBR600. But there are ways and means and we can investigate that.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

100% support to reduce disposal costs of used rubber. Should reduce racing costs and make stepping up to superbike cat. look more attractive and make the whole racing thing (expense) easier for many.

[JayRacer37]

You're welcome Shaun, It would be great if together we can come up with a plan that really stacks for the future so it can be put forward to the people who are making the discisions.
One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

I'd go with running a treaded D.O.T Tyre...but you arn't suggesting everyone should be made to use the same brand right...?

[Drew]

I'd go with running a treaded D.O.T Tyre...but you arn't suggesting everyone should be made to use the same brand right...?

Why not mate?

Makes sense to me. I'd hope they were Perelli, but if not I'm sure my sponsors would understand that the class wouldn't allow their tyres.

[JayRacer37]

Why not mate?

Makes sense to me. I'd hope they were Perelli, but if not I'm sure my sponsors would understand that the class wouldn't allow their tyres.

Why? You want to make the racing money efficient, why make everyone buy the same tyre, probably loosing their deal with tyres? Didn't work too great many moons ago when the control tyre for 150's were Dunlops...you got charged the earth for them.

Also, its like taking 600 Supersport and saying that Kawasaki ZX-6R's arn't allowed...

[AndrewStroud]

I'd go with running a treaded D.O.T Tyre...but you arn't suggesting everyone should be made to use the same brand right...?

Yep. Same as Moto GP, WSB, AMA, BSB, Aus Superstock....
You and I and maybe Brian could be the biggest losers in the deal if it went ahead. But still, looking at the bigger picture, it would be a lot better for everyone else and should encourage a lot more riders to compete and help give racing a healthy future.
All of the tyre importers that bring in good quality race tyres have the opportunity to make a bid and outline what they are prepared to offer.

They'd need to guarantee supply and equal spec tyres for all competitors.
Provide a price that riders can buy them for.
Also be able to provide a durable compound that will hold up well allowing for a maximium of two sets per weekend.
They could be prepared to Sponsor the series as part of the deal and maybe provide something like ???? 2k in prize money per round for the class they supply. Nothing stopping 600's and S/B from having different brand control tyres. I'd expect that Dunlop, Bridgestone, Pirelli, Continental, Michelin all could have suitable tyres and maybe in a position to make an offer. They'd need to prove from results in NZ or overseas that their tyres are up to it. eg Dunlop and Pirelli in particular have proved themselves in S/B to perform on NZ tracks.
Harder compound Treaded D.O.T. tyres would be the way to go.
If a deal was achieved just for the Nationals then you could still run any tyre brand you like outside the Nationals.
Why shouldn't it be put up for tender? You never know what may be offered.

[Marknz]

You're welcome Shaun, It would be great if together we can come up with a plan that really stacks for the future so it can be put forward to the people who are making the discisions.
One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

That would work for me. But I understand the trepidation from others who might already have tyre deals, or already have done a great deal of development for one of the producers.

We'd also want to have a rock solid agreement from the supplier that they would be discounted for racers, even if we had to show a MNZ license to get them.

[Shaun P]

Im undecided on the control tyre idea at the moment, but it is a big put off when certain racers get access/sponsorship to very cheap tyre deals when the rest of the punters have to pay double or more of the price and have very limited access to supply. At least it would put more people on a level field cost/supply wise.

[JayRacer37]

That would work for me. But I understand the trepidation from others who might already have tyre deals, or already have done a great deal of development for one of the producers.

We'd also want to have a rock solid agreement from the supplier that they would be discounted for racers, even if we had to show a MNZ license to get them.

There would certainly have to be a hell of an agreement with whichever supplier it was.

Tell ya what though, you would have to try pretty bloody hard to get another brands product advertised on or near my bikes

[AndrewStroud]

Why not mate?

Makes sense to me. I'd hope they were Perelli, but if not I'm sure my sponsors would understand that the class wouldn't allow their tyres.

I'd hope it was Pirelli too Drew. I'm totally happy with the tyres and Allan's been great to me. He's a pretty generous man and is prepared to give in order to receive. Not saying other wholesalers aren't I'm sure Nationwide would be in as good a position as any to put forward a suitable proposal.

[JayRacer37]

Im undecided on the control tyre idea at the moment, but it is a big put off when certain racers get access/sponsorship to very cheap tyre deals when the rest of the punters have to pay double or more of the price and have very limited access to supply. At least it would put more people on a level field cost/supply wise.

You pay for the tyres on your road bike right? I pay retail for my road tyres too. I get cheaper racing/testing tyres because I do work for the company, and I have something to give back to them at the end of it. And I have a deal with the importer as they can use me to advertise that product. Anyone can get a deal with tyres...I think most importers are pretty quick to discount tyres for racing if you will put the sticker on your bike. But to get more than that...there has to be a return for them.

You are right, it would put everyone on a level playing feild price wise. But would it do that by taking the advantage away from the people who have it and work for it, and not giving anything back in return to all riders?

[Shaun P]

You pay for the tyres on your road bike right? I pay retail for my road tyres too. I get cheaper racing/testing tyres because I do work for the company, and I have something to give back to them at the end of it. And I have a deal with the importer as they can use me to advertise that product. Anyone can get a deal with tyres...I think most importers are pretty quick to discount tyres for racing if you will put the sticker on your bike. But to get more than that...there has to be a return for them.

You are right, it would put everyone on a level playing feild price wise. But would it do that by taking the advantage away from the people who have it and work for it, and not giving anything back in return to all riders?

Yep, like I said im undecided like anything it has pros and cons, it just makes it harder on the people coming up, especially those that havent cut their teeth and had support from a younger age.