Telecom XT and Vodafone rip off

[Number One]

I can even make telephone calls on my mobile

Shit awsum! Me too AND I can txt too!

BTW: Thanks for the info about current network being around until 2012...I won't b buying into the 'switch now' hooplah. My cellular needs are simple.

[YellowDog]

I believe there are scales of being ripped off to consider here.

IMO - Telecom, Vodafone, and Telstra are NZ leaders in a rip-off industry.

[Dave Lobster]

IMO - Telecom, Vodafone, and Telstra are NZ leaders in a rip-off industry.

Why don't you start up another network then?

Invest $1m per cell site rolled out.. On top of that the fibre for backhaul to your mulitmillion $ switching centres.. If you get 1/3 of the population on your network, how long will it take you to make any profit? Longer than your shareholders will allow?
You'll need at least 1000 cell sites. More, if you want to make it a good 3G network.
By the time you've rolled out your sites, there'll be new technology along, and your kit will be obsolete. It'll probably be obsolete four years before your accountants think the kit can be written off..

It's a real rip off when you expect your customers to buy enough from you that you can run at something more than a loss.

[Brian d marge]

Why don't you start up another network then?

Invest $1m per cell site rolled out.. On top of that the fibre for backhaul to your mulitmillion $ switching centres.. If you get 1/3 of the population on your network, how long will it take you to make any profit? Longer than your shareholders will allow?
You'll need at least 1000 cell sites. More, if you want to make it a good 3G network.
By the time you've rolled out your sites, there'll be new technology along, and your kit will be obsolete. It'll probably be obsolete four years before your accountants think the kit can be written off..

It's a real rip off when you expect your customers to buy enough from you that you can run at something more than a loss.

utilities should never be controlled by the free-market give the unemployed a pair of sand shoes , and get me .. my broadband ,,,,,

Stephen

[Edbear]

I believe there are scales of being ripped off to consider here.

IMO - Telecom, Vodafone, and Telstra are NZ leaders in a rip-off industry.

But of course, as DaveLobster says, the cost of investment here is considerable and the population/geography equation is considered too unfavourable for many overseas companies to invest here, that's why such as TelstraClear, NZ Communications and Black and White et al buy services from either Telecom or Vodafone who have invested multi-millions in their networks.

Telstra Clear has poured millions into its fibre-optic network only to be told by the Govt. that it may be a waste of money now. That's why all the telco's got together and commissioned an INDEPENDENT study, to examine the issue and see what the state of play was currently and what the Govt. plan would mean for the telco's. Following that they presented the findings to Govt. and are still in negotiations.

Yes, there is room for costs to come down, but they need a level playing field and some certainty going forward as to whether the investments they're prepared to put in will be worthwhile. This is where the Govt. is crucial in setting in place regulations that ensure a fair deal. Would you invest money in an uncertain venture where a third party, ie: Govt. could change the rules overnight leaving your investment worthless?

[YellowDog]

Why don't you start up another network then?

Invest $1m per cell site rolled out.. On top of that the fibre for backhaul to your mulitmillion $ switching centres.. If you get 1/3 of the population on your network, how long will it take you to make any profit? Longer than your shareholders will allow?
You'll need at least 1000 cell sites. More, if you want to make it a good 3G network.
By the time you've rolled out your sites, there'll be new technology along, and your kit will be obsolete. It'll probably be obsolete four years before your accountants think the kit can be written off..

It's a real rip off when you expect your customers to buy enough from you that you can run at something more than a loss.

I hear what you are saying and agree to a degree.

FYI: Vodafone NZ contributes more than 1% in profit to the global outfit. They take a lot of pride in this huge contribution for such a small unit. They know it is far too high for the spacity/volume reasons that you have highlighted and has been achieved by the almost complete lack of competition. Telecom are only now starting to come back by hitting Vodafone's new business ambitions however they don't seem to understand that it is the legacy sim card enabled business that is their cash cow.

If you go to Europe, for most countries Vodafone is the most expensive of the service providers and there are generally more than 4 major players for the user base. Deals are a plenty with each player trying to steal the other's business.

I just wish that Telecom were more dynamic and better at this game than they actually are. It ain't exactly difficult when you already own the PSTN. The Telstra deal does not look attractive to me and my Vodafone 49c to any number in the world is as good as is available for my usage.

[scracha]

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only punter completely underwhelmed by the new plans. $100 for 250 minutes is 40c per min so I'd be just about as well on my 49c prepay plan (not Telecon though...89c...FFS) as I'll have no commitments. Hope they explain the the poor non-tech savvy customers that they'll be getting stung a whopping $500 a farkin gigabyte if they go over their usage allowance.

But of course, as DaveLobster says, the cost of investment here is considerable and the population/geography equation is considered too unfavourable for many overseas companies to invest here,

That low population/geography argument is utter $hite and good old enzed is no different from many other countries.

The whole mobile pricing is seriously fucked up in New Zealand. If we got reasonable plans with say, 2000 minutes instead of pathetic bundles like 120 minutes then we'd actually be making calls on the bloody things instead of getting farkin text messages every 5 minutes.

[Edbear]

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only punter completely underwhelmed by the new plans. $100 for 250 minutes is 40c per min so I'd be just about as well on my 49c prepay plan (not Telecon though...89c...FFS) as I'll have no commitments. Hope they explain the the poor non-tech savvy customers that they'll be getting stung a whopping $500 a farkin gigabyte if they go over their usage allowance.



That low population/geography argument is utter $hite and good old enzed is no different from many other countries.

The whole mobile pricing is seriously fucked up in New Zealand. If we got reasonable plans with say, 2000 minutes instead of pathetic bundles like 120 minutes then we'd actually be making calls on the bloody things instead of getting farkin text messages every 5 minutes.

I'm sure it'll be in the fine print somewhere....

Interesting to hear the third party, 2 Degrees, due to release shortly, say the plans are too expensive. I'm on TelstraClear's residential mobile which is $20pm, 500 free txt/pxt to any network and 29c/min any mobile/landline in NZ, which is not too bad. Got a free Nokia 6275i with it which is an okay phone.

Truth is, the new XT as with 3G is not needed by most mobile users who just want calls and txt/pxt service throughout NZ. CDMA/2G is plenty fast enough and wide enough for this and emailing. It's only transmitting/receiving data files over the internet where the new technology is better. So if you want to browse the net and download files over an expensive medium, use your cellphone and XT/3G networks. Otherwise use your PC/Laptop.

[Pixie]

Mmmmmm........Sooo many suckers

[Edbear]

Mmmmmm........Sooo many suckers

Go on, spill.... You know you want to...

[Grahameeboy]

Well this is supposedly a 1st world country and to conduct business these days, mobile coverage is pretty much essential. So yes, essentially I am forced to buy their shitty products.

NZ is really a 3rd world country as it's main industry is Horticultural.

But you know when I first got here it took me a while to get used to small supermarkets and less choices compared to UK but in the end you realise that you can still buy the same food just in a different package....we do have internet...see my point...

[Morcs]

NZ is really a 3rd world country as it's main industry is Horticultural.

But you know when I first got here it took me a while to get used to small supermarkets and less choices compared to UK but in the end you realise that you can still buy the same food just in a different package....we do have internet...see my point...

Yeah but If you use the internet as an example - when I was last in the UK in 2004, I had a 1Mbps unlimited (no such thing as download limits there!) broadband connection. It cost me 25 quid per month. ($62)

In NZ, 5 years later, ya lucky if you can actually get 1Mbps, and the most expensive plans have a 40gb download limit (Id do 20gb in a week easily), of which you get charged and raped if you go over, for a whole $80 per month, with crappy service too.

5 years behind, and still havent caught up, AND you pay more for the privaledge.

[Marknz]

Timely thread, thanks. I was getting bored of my 'basic' cellphone that will take pictures, call people, and let me tx/rx txts. I had been contemplating upgrading to a 'free' 3G phone on a vodafone broadband plan... now I think I'll just keep what i have and be happy with it.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah but If you use the internet as an example - when I was last in the UK in 2004, I had a 1Mbps unlimited (no such thing as download limits there!) broadband connection. It cost me 25 quid per month. ($62)

In NZ, 5 years later, ya lucky if you can actually get 1Mbps, and the most expensive plans have a 40gb download limit (Id do 20gb in a week easily), of which you get charged and raped if you go over, for a whole $80 per month, with crappy service too.

5 years behind, and still havent caught up.

Life sucks I guess.....

[mashman]

Vodafone is a global mobile player... the reason it costs so much over here is there's a limited amount of budget for putting in a network as the infrastgructure here is next to non-existent and that drives prices you need to charge your customers.

5 years ago I was moving on to a 20mb home internet plan (uncapped 75 bucks a month), was on a 3g mobile plan which I bought for 100 bucks, 1000 free texts, 500 free minutes and i think it was about 100mb of data... on a month by month contract that cost me 40 bucks a month and calls charges outwith my allowance where 3p per minute, about 1c...

The 10 years prior to that, phones cost 3 times as much, there were no free texts or minutes, plans cost about 3 times as much and call charges where 50p (1.25) per minute peak and 12p (30c) per minute off peak... all to cover the start up costs of that country...

Yes they screw you over here, but the current pricing is start up pricing, you also need to take into account that your nearest 1st world country is about 2000k's away and anywhere else in the world isn't... Ireland is about 20k's from England... so likely you'll have to wear it for another 5 years before you get the betetr end of the deal...