F'wit drunks on our roads. (Is there any other kind of drunk driver?)

**Ixion** · 27th June 2009, 17:22

Originally Posted by davereid

The easiest tampering is merely to drive another car. Get a $200 wreck and just ignore the law.

yes. Obvious, and easy. Depends on the penalty for being caught in a car without the test gizmo of course. if it's confiscation then a $200 clunker sorts it. Jail time, trickier. [QUOTE] We did some very preliminary design work, and we were sure that any mechanically competent person would be able to bypass virtually any system that we could install. However, we were also sure we could detect any tampering.

Depends on the age of the vehicle. You wouldn't need to tamper with the gizmo, just bypass it. At worst, second coil somewhere and hot wire to the battery (or another battery)

We didnt seriously consider stopping a car - just inhibiting starting, as we didnt want to be blamed for a car cutting out while passing a truck, or half way over a railway crossing.

Some of the ideas we came up with were..

Multiple sensors - test for alcohol, test air temperature and test carbon dioxide to ensure a live human was performing the test.

How long before someone starts selling canned breath. With an outlet heater

Random repeats of the test while car is being driven, which if failed would be logged, and possibly reported via GPRS or similar.

"Lean over and blow in here darling, this stupid gadget wants another sample and I'm too busy driving

We looked at ways of detecting a tamper. It seemed pretty easy to detect that a vehicle has started in spite of a test being failed or not made at all.

That assumes of course that no other (non interlocked) driver uses the vehicle. Even apart from the family/friends thing, what about service men? Even detecting starting wouldn't be THAT easy if one was determined. Disconnect normal feed from alternator (reconnect to battery via new feed). Disconnect electrical water temp gauge. Disconnect oil pressure light feed. That's about it,unless you get into mechanical measurement (eg oil pressure).

We also considered logging all driver behavior - rpm, speed, etc etc and making it available as a download for enforcement, or automatically reported via GPRS.

Of course, all this costs money, and NZ being an egalitarian society, any system we produced would have to be cheap, so the poorest alcoholic could afford one, not just the rich drunks.

Otherwise it would soon become a system to allow the rich to keep driving, while the poor walked.

Seems it would be a lot simpler just to say "Mr Blogs you've been done X times for DIC. This court reckons you're an alcoholic, so you are forbidden to drive or hold a license until someone like the Sallies certifies you're dried out and permanently on the wagon"

**davereid** · 27th June 2009, 18:00

Originally Posted by Ixion

Seems it would be a lot simpler just to say "Mr Blogs you've been done X times for DIC. This court reckons you're an alcoholic, so you are forbidden to drive or hold a license until someone like the Sallies certifies you're dried out and permanently on the wagon"

Yep, the best way IMHO is to simply ban the recidivist drink driver, and lock him up if you catch him.

You should become an electronics designer - some cunning plans there for defeating a system !

We only spent a few hours on it, just so we were on-the-case if we ever heard back from the men at the ministry.

Most effeorts to defeat a system of are easy to spot - the removal of a monitoring wire from a coil, temperature or oil sensor would be very difficult to do without being detected by the monitoring device. Plus, its not too tricky to add sensors looking at system voltage - ie is the alternator running, are the brakes being used etc.

Plus the easiest of them all, a Tapley meter built into the device that simply detects vehicle acceleration or deceleration.

**Ixion** · 27th June 2009, 18:30

Originally Posted by davereid

.. Most effeorts to defeat a system of are easy to spot - the removal of a monitoring wire from a coil, temperature or oil sensor would be very difficult to do without being detected by the monitoring device. Plus, its not too tricky to add sensors looking at system voltage - ie is the alternator running, are the brakes being used etc.

Plus the easiest of them all, a Tapley meter built into the device that simply detects vehicle acceleration or deceleration.

Not really. Just need a spare coil,sensor etc. Leave the originals disconnected from the engine , just sitting there with the monitor wires attached. And a wire from the disconnected unit to earth. So long as earth continuity is maintained, sensor doesn't know its no longer screwed into the engine block.Fit new units and away you go.

Spare battery takes care of your monitoring the system voltage. Your monitor connected to original battery- that's disconnected from everything else. Gee, it's always just a constant voltage. No current in no current out. Guess the suspect isn't using the vehicle. (actually the original battery /sensors etc and monitor could be left behind in the gargre - except that you'd want the monitor in the car to show to Mr Plod when he sees the "must have interlock" endorsement on your licence)

New spare battery - connected to everything else. Anything electrical is easy to fool. Dunno how to fool a tapley meter though. Unless one mounted it in a gimbal of some sort that isolated the gadget from vehicle acceleration. Could probably do that with a bit of thought.

**Ixion** · 27th June 2009, 18:34

Actually, there is an even easier way to fool an interlock. Interlock is fitted to your car. You have another car. Now, the only danger in this is that you get stopped and the cop sees the "Must have interlock fitted to car" endorsement on your licence. So he says "show me this interlock". Cops ain't engineers. All you need is a fake interlock fitted. Make it look like the real one , but does nothing. He sees interlock, all happy. Business opportunity there , make fake interlocks. Could be a good market for them.

of course, if you get picked up for DIC , and they find the fake you're in trouble. But in that event the scheme has failed anyway, hasn't it?

**RantyDave** · 27th June 2009, 20:10

Originally Posted by Ixion

Passing by such obvious evasion methods as having a friend blow into it, or using canned air (though I fail to see how the device can cope with such basic circumvention), how is it to stop the vehicle being used?

From what I remember, this was only half the point. The device acts as an interlock for starting only - once the car is going, it's going and won't conk out in the middle of nowhere. We were in Colorado so I can see why they set it up like this. Man we were with had been made late for work a couple of times by the interlock - despite much drinking of water and huffing of fresh air so....

The other half is that it logs it's measurements and you have to take it to the police station every three months or so to have it's brain analysed. So if you blow two in a row "fuck me, you are pissed out of your mind" then one "straight as an arrow" it's going to stick out like a sore thumb and you can expect some questions.

Also, if there's someone there who's straight, then they can drive, eh?

Buying a clunker and driving around in that? I imagine one gets a very very limited license i.e. to drive the interlocked car only. If you get caught or crash then I suspect you go straight to jail and do not collect two hundred pounds. Obviously this is still an enforcement issue.

It's not perfect but mate of mate was pretty embarrassed about the whole thing, as you would be, and the presence of the interlock means he more or less has to discuss his DUI history with anyone who even gets into the car. I think this would probably sort out all but the very worst offenders ... for whom there may actually be no hope and whose offending is a sign of something rather more serious. They should still be off the road.

Dave

**Genestho** · 28th June 2009, 18:51

Many of the stories of tampering with and/or misuse of alcohol interlocks have become sensationalized and have become the substance of “urban myths”.

Experience with interlock programs over the past decade has served to help identify and resolve problem areas.

Technological innovations over this period of time have successfully dealt with most of the concerns, resulting in a reliable and accurate device that does exactly what is intended – prevent persons impaired by alcohol from operating the vehicle.

Ignition interlock devices employ one of two types of alcohol detection methods: semiconductor sensing; or electrochemical (fuel cell) sensing.

Semiconductor sensing
The major advantages of this method of alcohol detection are its accuracy, relatively low price, and durability.

There are two primary disadvantages of this method. First, it requires frequent calibration. This means that its stability of measurement over time may vary and, hence, it must be serviced at regular and frequent intervals.

Second, the semiconductor sensor is not specific to alcohol -- i.e., it responds to other combustible gases and vapors, most notably cigarette smoke and vehicle exhaust. As a consequence, it can, on occasion, give a positive reading even when the individual has not consumed alcohol. For the driver using an interlock with this type of sensor, a false positive reading can prevent legitimate use of the vehicle. For program administrators, this renders it impossible to determine whether low readings are the result of alcohol consumption by the driver or other volatile substances in the atmosphere.

Electrochemical (fuel cell) sensing
The electrochemical (fuel cell) method of alcohol detection utilizes a small device to convert alcohol and oxygen into an electrical current. The current generated is proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the breath sample. This technology is used in a variety of roadside screening devices, evidential breath test instruments, and passive sensors. Fuel cell-based devices are typically more expensive than semiconductor devices but they have two major advantages.

First, they are specific to alcohol. They do not respond to organic hydrocarbon solvents, so positive results can only occur if alcohol is in the sample. This eliminates the nuisance of unjustified (i.e., false positive) ignition lock-outs due to the presence of other volatile substances such as cigarette smoke and vehicle exhaust. This gives program administrators confidence that positive readings are the result of alcohol in the breath of drivers.

Fuel cell-based devices also have greater stability in calibration. This provides greater accuracy over the long term and eliminates the need for frequent calibration.

Data recorder.
A key feature for preventing tampering and circumvention is the inclusion of a data recorder as an integral part of the interlock device. The primary purpose of the data recorder is to provide program monitors (judicial or licensing authorities) with a record of all uses of the device, including attempts to tamper with, or circumvent, its function. Information about all attempts to start the vehicle (including the results of breath tests) and attempts to disconnect the interlock are recorded electronically.
In addition, the recording of these events provides program monitors with documentation of program violations so that appropriate action can be taken.

**Genestho** · 28th June 2009, 18:54

Data logging continued...

Sensors.
Temperature and/or pressure sensors are incorporated as a means to detect and prevent the use of samples that have been stored (e.g., in a balloon), filtered, or introduced by a mechanical device. All breath samples that are rejected by these sensors are recorded on the data logger.

Running retests.
Many alcohol interlock devices require repeated breath tests -- "running retests" -- on a random interval after the vehicle has been successfully started. The purpose of these "running retests" is actually threefold: (1) to prevent the possibility of a bystander providing an alcohol-free breath sample that would allow a driver with a high BAC to operate the vehicle; (2) to detect drivers whose BAC is still in the ascending phase and has risen beyond the setpoint after the vehicle was originally started; and (3) to prevent drivers from leaving the vehicle idling while they drink.

Failing to provide a running retest within the time allowed can result in a warning to the driver (either auditory or visual) or an alarm may be activated. After the warning, if a sample is not provided or if the vehicle is not stopped, the driver can be required to report immediately to the service centre or program manager. Any retest that registers a BAC in excess of the setpoint can lead to any of a number of consequences. For example, the interlock device can merely warn the driver of the failure and require the user to report to the program manager and service technician. Appropriate action would then be taken against the offender. Failure to report to the service centre within a specified period can result in the interlock preventing any further use of the vehicle. A failed retest might also activate an alarm – lights flashing, horn activated, or internal alarm – prompting the driver to discontinue driving. In no instance would the interlock device stop the engine so as to create a traffic hazard.

Driver recognition systems. As a means to prevent bystanders from providing an alcohol-free breath sample, some interlock systems have incorporated features such as “hum-tone” recognition and breath-pulse codes. “Hum-tone” recognition requires the driver to hum for a period of time while providing a breath sample. This requires some practice and repeated unsuccessful attempts by an inexperienced individual would result in a lockout situation. This system also prevents attempts to introduce a bogus (i.e., non-human) or filtered air sample.

**Genestho** · 28th June 2009, 19:00

To a large extent this prevents bogus and bystander samples and can be used to identify the driver in cases where other people operate the same vehicle.

Sealed wiring.

Protection against tampering is generally provided by sealing the wiring and circuits in a manner that renders it easy to detect any attempt to alter it.

♦ False positives. The most common problem reported by interlock participants is trouble starting the vehicle when they were “sober” Some of these problems were undoubtedly true “false positives” as a result of the interlock device responding to other substances. The newer devices using fuel cell technology for alcohol detection virtually eliminate this problem.

**Interlocks were never intended as a treatment for alcohol abuse; therefore, it should not be expected that installation and use of an interlock device will, by itself, prompt a change in the extent of alcohol consumption.

The period of interlock installation could, however, be used to greater advantage by encouraging or compelling simultaneous participation in a rehabilitation program to deal with the problem that results in the DWI offence – i.e., alcohol abuse.

**Genestho** · 28th June 2009, 19:10

In a study of over 2,000 interlock participants, Voas et al. (2000) reported that among those who had access to another vehicle, there was no evidence to suggest that they were using a non-interlock equipped vehicle when drinking to avoid the interlock.

In Sweden, hard licence suspension for DWI offenders is not as ingrained in the sanctioning system as it is in North America. Interlock programs are available as an alternative to full licence suspension and offenders can apply to participate in the program and have the interlock installed as soon as possible. Participants must undergo periodic medical assessment – including blood tests for biological markers of alcohol abuse – and provide proof of a sober lifestyle after one year. The interlock then remains in the vehicle for an additional year.

The evidence to date suggests that the sooner the offender enters the interlocks program the better.

It is recommended that interlock programs be viewed as part of a comprehensive system for dealing with DWI offenders. Every effort should be made to ensure that participation in the interlock program be coordinated with other sanctions and rehabilitation programs to maximize beneficial effects.

Although it is illegal for the participant to drive such a vehicle and for someone to knowingly rent or loan such a vehicle to an interlock program participant, it can happen.

The electronic driver’s licence might fill this gap (Goldberg, 1995). This licence is electronically coded with critical information about the driver, including the restriction to interlock-equipped vehicles. Prior to starting the vehicle, the licence must be inserted into a card reader in the dashboard. The reader determines the eligibility of the driver to operate the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have an interlock, the vehicle will not start. Such a system would require the entire vehicle fleet to be equipped with readers. Should this occur, the system may provide an additional barrier to help prevent interlock participants from operating other vehicles.

**Genestho** · 28th June 2009, 19:14

LOL! Ok, I'll stop now!

This is just one "Best Practices" report from a co-alation of cited researches and world wide studies.

Theres a whole load more in this particular report on legislation, enforcement, monitoring etc...

What we have to realise is for this to work, we must assess, which currently - we only assess 5% of all dd's, which prosecutions are around the 30.000 per year mark, and rising. This year, allegedly - we are about to hit an all time recorded high.
New Mexico, Louisianna and Arizona will be fitting these for first time DUI's, this year.
Out of Sweden there is suggestion to factory fit interlocks in all new cars.

I might be naive or simplistic, but in my view, and that's all it is, is that we appear to treat drink driving as one big blob of a problem.

If we tackled each portion of the problem seperately...(oh yes, it is a big job)

IE; Youth and Learner Drivers/Education, the wine with dinners, the over the limit from the night before, the recidivists with alcohol and social problems, binge drinkers, and I really don't care types.

Happy to answer any more questions based on the research

If you can handle it

!!!

Cheers