What the heck bike is THAT?

[bogan]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.

I wudnt want my bike to be shifting gears without being ready for it, good way to cock it up through a corner i reckon. However a CVT would be good (used properly, like in tractors, none of this tip-tronic bs), take gears right out of the equation.

[xwhatsit]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.

Maybe. I think those automated manual boxes are better left in cars. The `good' thing about a hydraulic auto box is that shifts are cushioned; there's an element of `clutch slip' when it changes ratio that softens the transition. Of course it feels like mushy poo, but one would expect it's nice behaviour to have when banked over mid-corner and winding the accelerator on.

On the other hand, shifting up mid-corner in an automated manual box is not going to be a smooth, long transition; instead it's probably going to upset the chassis and make riding generally unpleasant.

[slowpoke]

I wudnt want my bike to be shifting gears without being ready for it, good way to cock it up through a corner i reckon. However a CVT would be good (used properly, like in tractors, none of this tip-tronic bs), take gears right out of the equation.

Maybe. I think those automated manual boxes are better left in cars. The `good' thing about a hydraulic auto box is that shifts are cushioned; there's an element of `clutch slip' when it changes ratio that softens the transition. Of course it feels like mushy poo, but one would expect it's nice behaviour to have when banked over mid-corner and winding the accelerator on.

On the other hand, shifting up mid-corner in an automated manual box is not going to be a smooth, long transition; instead it's probably going to upset the chassis and make riding generally unpleasant.

You've missed the point, YOU still have control over when/where you change gear.

The gear box does what it's told to do by YOU, not changing up/down at arbitrary points set by a computer. It's only the shift mechanism that changes, instead of throttle off, clutch in, select gear, clutch out, throttle on etc, it does it all for you at the touch of a button and in a fraction of a second. Think clutchless upshift, only quicker, where instead of prodding the gear lever you press a button. It'll even blip the throttle on downshifts to match engine revs. Up changes can be done without even backing off the throttle if you are so inclined, just like a race bike quick shifter, or you can modulate for seamless gear changes.

Most if not all automated manual gearboxes do have a fully auto function, which would still work fine for bikes, but obviously you'd ride accordingly, just as you do in a car. You don't go fanging over the 'taka's in your Porsche at 11/10's and leave it in auto, that's asking for trouble with mid-corner gear changes when you're on the limit, just as it would be on a bike.

[skidMark]

yeah but can it wheelie?

ever heard of snipping a quote scotty?

[bogan]

You've missed the point, YOU still have control over when/where you change gear.

The gear box does what it's told to do by YOU, not changing up/down at arbitrary points set by a computer. It's only the shift mechanism that changes, instead of throttle off, clutch in, select gear, clutch out, throttle on etc, it does it all for you at the touch of a button and in a fraction of a second. Think clutchless upshift, only quicker, where instead of prodding the gear lever you press a button. It'll even blip the throttle on downshifts to match engine revs. Up changes can be done without even backing off the throttle if you are so inclined, just like a race bike quick shifter, or you can modulate for seamless gear changes.

Most if not all automated manual gearboxes do have a fully auto function, which would still work fine for bikes, but obviously you'd ride accordingly, just as you do in a car. You don't go fanging over the 'taka's in your Porsche at 11/10's and leave it in auto, that's asking for trouble with mid-corner gear changes when you're on the limit, just as it would be on a bike.

So its a essentially a very quick shifting tiptronic transmission then (without the slushy), i cant see it would be that much use, shiftings so easy anyway, thinking about when to shift spends far more of my attention money than the actual act itself. But thats just me, if its just a system to optimise the clutch and shifter movements to a single button, then technically it sounds easy enough to do.

Hydraulic pump/accumulator/solenoid for the clutch, small dc motor for the shifter, little micro to control it all. So if you think its a good idea, do some market research, make prototypes etc.

[Ixion]

Forget this slush box, CVT, "twist and wait" business. What would be interesting is an automated manual gearbox like BMW's SMG or Porsches PDK. Not a jap "tiptronic" which is just a manually controlled auto box but a genuine manual gear box with it's shift mechanism automated.

It's that Keith Code thing, where you've got a dollar's worth of attention to spend at every corner. Automating the gearbox would free up a bit more attention for braking, acceleration etc while still retaining the responsiveness of a manual gearbox.

Been there done that.

Point that manufacturers always forget when they dream up these "nice easy to ride,comfortable, perfect for running around town " bikes (and I've seen them come and go many many times over the decades - right since the 30s) , is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".

If that was what they wanted they'd either be driving a car , or, at most, riding a scooter.

Bikers ride bikes either

(a) because they want to "pose". So they buy a Harley. And bikes like this Honda don't qualify on pose; or
(b) because they enjoy the challenge of riding something that *isn't* nice and easy etc etc.

Cars (modern ones , anyway) are nice and easy to drive, comfortable etc etc. And dead boring because of it.

Bikers ride bikes to prove to themselves that they can. Part of biking is the challenge of dealing with the fact that nothing is automated. It's all down to *you* . Why else would bikers deliberately seek out the most difficult roads. Why do bikers flock to "technical" roads, when they could have a much easier more comfortable ride going down the motorway instead ? Why are the bikes that bikers lust over, or fondly remember, the ones which are hardest to ride? High tuned two strokes, f'instance.

Automate the challenge out and you automate the fun out.

[MotoKuzzi]

All technical issues aside I like the styling and I'm not a great fan of the modern bike look.

[FROSTY:Me]

Shoot me if I'm wrong but under all the baloney and hype what Honda have created is a superscooter. Yea it looks like no scooter I've ever seen and has real wheels unlike scooters.

[MIXONE]

I'll buy one when I can no longer ride a real bike!

[Ocean1]

Automate the challenge out and you automate the fun out.

So you've grafted an Amal and Lucas mag wiv manual advance onto all yer livestock eh?

BRP's actuated 990 gearbox is a revelation, dude, it does what you'd do, if you were able. But you're not, nobody is that quick without routinely breaking gearboxes, or that reliably accurate on the throttle. Slicker'n fresh snot on a hot griddle.

[slowpoke]

Been there done that.

Point that manufacturers always forget when they dream up these "nice easy to ride,comfortable, perfect for running around town " bikes (and I've seen them come and go many many times over the decades - right since the 30s) , is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".

If that was what they wanted they'd either be driving a car , or, at most, riding a scooter.

Bikers ride bikes either

(a) because they want to "pose". So they buy a Harley. And bikes like this Honda don't qualify on pose; or
(b) because they enjoy the challenge of riding something that *isn't* nice and easy etc etc.

Cars (modern ones , anyway) are nice and easy to drive, comfortable etc etc. And dead boring because of it.

Bikers ride bikes to prove to themselves that they can. Part of biking is the challenge of dealing with the fact that nothing is automated. It's all down to *you* . Why else would bikers deliberately seek out the most difficult roads. Why do bikers flock to "technical" roads, when they could have a much easier more comfortable ride going down the motorway instead ? Why are the bikes that bikers lust over, or fondly remember, the ones which are hardest to ride? High tuned two strokes, f'instance.

Automate the challenge out and you automate the fun out.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean, I'm not keen on an overly sanitised experience either.....a while back I bought a 40year old manual everything gas guzzler instead of a new car for chrissakes (d'oh, what the fuck was I thinkin'?!)

But I can see racers loving it, just as they love the slipper clutch that makes their lives that much easier. Something like an SMG box on a 200hp superbike would still be a pretty hair raising experience when you are pushing it.

Just as people love the older bare bones, carb'd, wind up window, air cooled Porsche 911's, there are also those who love a new porsche with it's electronically variable everything and paddle shift 'box etc. There's always a market for something that makes you faster.....although I doubt you'll ever see a bike fitted with wheelie control that you can't switch off.

[Ixion]

I would if I could!

I do have Amal carbs on some of mine, nothing wrong with Amals.

And the second worst thing they ever did was drop the manual advance and retard. Good as a second gearbox that was.

Worst thing was synchromesh on car gearboxes (I'm not even going to mention automatics - anyone who needs to drive an automatic shouldn't be entrusted with any vehicle past roller skates) . Very satisfying was a crash gearbox.

I don't ride a bike for easy comfortable transport. I ride a bke for fun. The transport is a bonus. I'm not interested in something where I just sit there like a sandbag and electowozzies do the fun bit.

[Big Dave]

Have previously posted the review of the can am spyder auto.

It uses a vacuum shifter on the manual gearbox.

Premiums: Weight 1kg. Cost 1.5K

But it is faster off the mark than the manual (or I have better reaction times than their pros)

[Big Dave]

>> is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".<<

Suzuki seems to sell plenty of Burgmans.

[MarkH]

>> is that people who buy and ride bikes don't *want* "nice easy to ride , comfortable " bikes for "running around town".<<

Suzuki seems to sell plenty of Burgmans.

Yep - plenty of auto bikes of different types sold all over the world. I think that people that buy and ride bikes want something - not necessarily the same thing as the next person that buys and rides a bike. I suppose that's why they make cruisers & sports bikes & tourers & scooters & adventure bikes & . . .