Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

**Genestho** · 5th July 2009, 14:01

Originally Posted by Pussy

Was it a Michael (I LOVE pork!!) King book?

The penguin book of NZ by Micheal King? But I think there is two, could be wrong, known to be before! LOL (cheeky

)

**Genestho** · 5th July 2009, 14:17

Waiting for Winston

shhh I know he's got something good on the boil...teeeheee!

**Winston001** · 5th July 2009, 14:30

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

I don't recall the Irish seek compensation...

Really? Ask Sein Fein. Ask the IRA. Ask many Irish. They want Ulster back in Eire. One nation, not artificially divided by the British.

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

Even if the claims were halted tomorrow, there'd be something else instead.

Agreed and this is one of the issues which concerns anyone opposed to the Treaty settlements. It is a fair point.

Originally Posted by scumdog

Right!
That does it!
I'm orf back to Scotland and put in whopping claim against the Poms for rooting Scottish cattle and stealing Scots women all those years ago.

And my ancestors never got a single blanket or musket in compensation neither...

Originally Posted by McJim

My clan were all but annihilated by the Montgomeries in the 17th century - it's not like we're gonna get any reparation.

Well you'll have noticed that Scotland got its own Parliament back recently, has its own laws, and the Stone of Scotland has been returned. Thats all for the purpose of righting historical wrongs and recognising Scottish culture.

Correct me if I'm wrong - isn't treating a group of people differently based on their ethnicity institutional racism?

Not when its on a cultural basis and for the purpose of helping those people. Racism is a completely negative concept - its meaning includes demeaning a group of people on the grounds of their race alone.

Originally Posted by Indiana_Jones

They also seem to think they own the radio waves lol.

Cause you know, they were using those heaps before the white devil got here!

Yeah and the white devils were using those same radio waves...??

The Treaty guarantees protection to Maori and the right to their resources. The radio waves belonged to them just as much as the white devils who later learned to use them.

**Winston001** · 5th July 2009, 14:47

Ok. I used to be anti-treaty. Bunch of wasters.

However over 24 years I've come around to the view that its the right thing to do. Ngai Tahu for example make many caucasian businessmen look very ordinary. They are smart operators.

I actually agree with Indy about the radio waves being a reach too far but can't get worked up about it. Nothing is lost.

Ultimately those who oppose the Treaty settlement process can relax. Non-maori hold the vast majority of economic and political power in NZ. If Maori push too far, the shutters will go up.

The foreshore and seabed issue is a strong example. I don't think NZers will accept being excluded from "our" beaches - that's going too far.

And finally - the ultimate protection - each and every one of us can "identify" as Maori. We can go on the Maori roll. Claim Maori scholarships etc. "Grandma has a naughty with a handsome young maori shearer once.....and here I am!!"

**Dave Lobster** · 5th July 2009, 15:01

Originally Posted by AD345

Not interested - this is not the forum for it .

Yet here are, still posting in it.

Originally Posted by AD345

you are not interested in leaning anything.

We have chairs in our house. No need to lean.

Originally Posted by AD345

You just want to prove your point.

The one you are ignoring?

Originally Posted by AD345

We don't agree

We are not ever going to agree

and that's the end of that.

What an excellent counter argument. You've dismissed all my points in a constructive way. I doff my cap in your general direction.

**Dave Lobster** · 5th July 2009, 15:09

Originally Posted by Winston001

Well you'll have noticed that Scotland got its own Parliament back recently, has its own laws, and the Stone of Scotland has been returned. Thats all for the purpose of righting historical wrongs and recognising Scottish culture.

I think you'll find it's more to do with vote grubbing for the labour party. They've always had a stronghold in Scotland. And opening the Scottish parliament has got them more of their mates on the gravy train.
If Scotland had true independence (and their parliament would have any real power) there wouldn't be Scottish MPs sitting in the parliament in London.

Originally Posted by Winston001

The radio waves belonged to them just as much as the white devils who later learned to use them.

Are you implying the maoris haven't learned?

Originally Posted by Winston001

Not when its on a cultural basis and for the purpose of helping those people. Racism is a completely negative concept - its meaning includes demeaning a group of people on the grounds of their race alone.

I believe these claims ARE demeaning to maori. All the maoris I know (including the lady I work for) have got where they are today by hard work and bothering their ass to get on in life. None have needed a hand out, or anything 'free' because one of their ancestors was wronged.

How embarassed would you be if the only way you could (possibly) get on in life was to take other people's handouts, rather than off your own back?

**short-circuit** · 5th July 2009, 15:37

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

All the maoris I know....

It's Maori (plural). There is no 's' in the Maori language

**Solly** · 5th July 2009, 15:40

Originally Posted by short-circuit

It's Maori (plural). There is no 's' in the Maori language

"Sweet cuz"

**Quasievil** · 5th July 2009, 15:52

Originally Posted by Morcs

Bullshit. WHat about poor farmers who have to give up their land, because some maori decided he was related to some chief 7 generations ago.

Do you have that example as fact or are you mouthing ?

**Argyle** · 5th July 2009, 15:55

Have a friend, he is a Farrier and like's to go out hunt sometimes. But he can't take Hi's own 5year old son for a hunt because there are Maoris hunting the hunters in "Maori" Forrest for their weapons. And when you tell the police the don't dare to do anything because they don't want to interfere with the Maori. They might be called racists then. Fucking hell, if a Maori had came to take my weapon i had shot the bastard.

No me and my fiance we are moving to Australia in two months!

**kiwifruit** · 5th July 2009, 15:57

Originally Posted by Argyle

No me and my fiance we are moving to Australia, this is the most fuckd up country in the world!

Happy trails

**2_SL0** · 5th July 2009, 16:14

Originally Posted by AD345

Resentment is created by those who resent - not those who are resented.

There are a myriad of taxpayer funded initiatives that benefit the few - breast cancer screening, sports funding, the entire mental health and disability sector....it would fill several pages to even begin to list them all.

I find resentment on this topic is created by an occurance, an event, a statement, a decision?
I am not saying settlement is not an option, I am saying that it can create resentment, that is a fact.

I see little comparison between screening for breast cancer and a treaty settlement. I fail to see your comparison on any of those points to be honest.

Over the years I have seen settlements that have not helped anyone except the very few within the immediate relationship to the settlement, you cannot say that is not true. Where as all of the comparisons you made are available to everyone of the wider community.