What is the difference...

[Dare]

I think he was meaning that the driving is just how it manifests itself and that it is actually more about doing the modern equivalent of showing off your courage and hunting prowess by taking out a saber tooth tiger with a flint-ended spear.

Basically doing something dangerous and rebellious to get the adrenaline flowing and show the other people around that you have courage and strength.

You may say that track days are dangerous, but it is a different kind of danger and one that isn't as palpable. Not to mention there isn't much rebellion either. The lack of that combination is what makes it less appealing than being an idiot out on the street.

Thankyou, that is exactly the point I was making. Rep sent XD

Humans, especially males, have a competitive drive that we cannot deny. It manifests itself as risk taking to show we are better than the next guy. Like it or not, it's something we have to deal with & not ignore.

[jono035]

Thankyou, that is exactly the point I was making. Rep sent XD

Humans, especially males, have a competitive drive that we cannot deny. It manifests itself as risk taking to show we are better than the next guy. Like it or not, it's something we have to deal with & not ignore.

Yeah, for all that we have built these magical glass castles around ourselves and think of ourselves as so civilised, a lot can be learned from taking a good long look at the behaviour of some of the 'animals' that we forget are our close relations.

This instinct evolved a long long time ago and I seriously doubt that any amount of legislation will wash it away. In the meantime any attempt to modify this behaviour needs to be coupled with a careful understanding of how it will be applied in other ways once you stop the behaviour you are targeting.

[tigertim20]

No, not wound up, don't confuse my rather coarse syntax as an interpretation of the mood, 'tis just how I speak!

to quote you...
Yes, there are ways to do what you want without breaking the law, read my post as to why breaking the law is part of the culture. I don't condone it I am simply informing, so if you want to do something about it please suggest a method of making the legal way more attractive to the boy racer... Seeing as that is kind of the only way your going to be doing anything other than whinging about these 'dangerous cunts'
my bad, I was getting the impression you were supporting and condoning those idiotic behaviours, I have suggested many ways in the past of making these things more attractive, but alas, the people that I would like to listen, don't want to!

maybe there should be stricter laws concerning which weetbix packets come with licenses in them but that has been discussed elsewhere...
agreed!

It doesnt have to have anything to do with skill. just go have FUN, film it, put it on youtube, brag to ya mates that you were fastest that day...

What? With the skills you don't have? RE: Above.
- read that part again "it DOESNT have to have ANYTHING to do with skill, just go have FUN


Uhm, if they were interesting in driving they wouldnt drive like 'fuggheads' would they? I'm interested in driving and I make a point of being a better driver than the majority of people I share the road with
I work with alot of youth down here, and I have found, by the assertion of the very idiots causing the trouble, that generally it IS about the driving to these idiots. They want 2 things, to have the most powerful, blinged, tricked out car, and they wanna show their mates that they can 'handle' the thing. hence why they go drifting and dragging etc.

More to the point they aren't interested in driving, they are interested in what will impress their mates
Yep, and they try to impress their mates by displaying what they view as 'a controlled demonstration of their skill and driving prowess'

That's totally fine, now tell me why boy racers don't do just that? Are they just ignorant of track days?
in some cases, yes. Many of them (ones I have worked with especially) had no idea that they can simply pay a small token amount to thrash their own cars around an international raceway like teretonga or levels all day, and frankly, many of them are excited at the thought of taking to the track, and showing of videos and lap time to their mates. perhaps if they were aware of the opportunity they would utilize it. I know of several cities where BR's have lobbied to get their own burnout pad etc, but havent been aware of 'trackdays'

Are you talking to me or just in general? Because I don't recall whinging, or behaving like a cock on the road
I am not speaking to any single person in particular, I dont know you,so it would be unfair of me to assume what kind of person you are or what kind of attitude you have. I am talking to the idiots who think they are a law unto themselves, participate in illegal activities involving their cars, then piss and moan that they got fined for having cutties, and uncerted mods, and lost their liscence cos they were caught drifting and being a general fucking nuisance

[Katman]

Anyway, back on topic.........

So what about those Fuckwits on Motorcycles?

[Ixion]

I think many of these idiots would be too scared to drive on a real race track, cos all their mates would see the skills they DONT have...

It doesnt have to have anything to do with skill. just go have FUN, film it, put it on youtube, brag to ya mates that you were fastest that day...

then why are they driving like fuggheads everywhere if they arent really interested in driving?

.. try again, I am not some 30 or 40 year old bugger whinging about the younguns of today, I do track days, my friends do too. suggesting trackdays for racing, drifting or just fucking around and speedway etc, is a way of giving them a chance to do what they want to do, without being dangerous, endangering peoples lives and being a bloody nuisance.

yes. all of this is present on a track day too. twenty cars hammering it round the track at redline blah blah blah

But, once again, many of the people we are discussing are not very interested in being "fastest" , or showing of "skillz". Trackdays simply *isn't* what they want to do.

The term boyracer is very misleading. It should really be called boycriuser. Many of them ahve a far greater affinity with the crusier bikers than the sprotsbikers.

It's not about going fast . Or, only a bit of it is about being fast. Perhaps have the *potential* to go fast, but competative speed driving isn't really part of the phat car scene.

Not everybody equates fast driving with good driving.

A discussion we had the other day went something like this, so called 'youths' have a certain competitive rebellious energy which has to be dissapated somehow. Unfortunately in our current society everything interesting/dangerous is or will soon be either illegal or incredibly expensive.

Very true. For about a million years we've bred young men to be aggressive and rebellious. Because those qualities had survival value for the species. Mark, NOT for the young men, most of them died. But, the ones who survived were the ones who got to breed.

Now, we don't have a use for that rebellious aggressive energy. We must either arrange a war and send them out to die in the good old fashioned way, or accept that they will find outlets for those drives one way or another.

And providing socially approved neutered , safe activities for them is NOT an answer. They wouldn't be interested. Even *I* wouldn't be interested, and I'm certainly not young.

So long as they're not doing any real harm to anyone other than themselves, what's the problem?

[Katman]

So long as they're not doing any real harm to anyone other than themselves, what's the problem?

How many times has irresponsible behaviour in or on motor vehicles done real harm to other people?

Your blase attitude does no-one any favours - least of all yourself.

[AllanB]

I was in Rangiora on wed night, there was a guy doing a burn out up his own drive with the gate shut, the police arrived at the address and entered the property. I did not see the result of the police visit,but there was tyre smoke.
This was opp the New World car park, so was in full view of wed night shoppers

I understand that from next month you'll get demerit points for skids in your undies.

[Ixion]

How many times has irresponsible behaviour in or on motor vehicles done real harm to other people?

Your blase attitude does no-one any favours - least of all yourself.

I done lots of irresponsible behaviour on bikes. Never done anyone any harm though.

They don't bother me, I don't bother them. Sort of my rule in life. Except for rats, wetas and politicians. They're vermin and need to be exterminated.

[Katman]

I done lots of irresponsible behaviour on bikes. Never done anyone any harm though.

That's great.

Should we just ignore the irresponsible behaviour that has caused others harm?

[mattian]

Anyway, back on topic.........

So what about those Fuckwits on Motorcycles?

What about them?? they will always be around.... just like fuckwits in cars, just like fuckwits you may meet randomly walking down the street on a saturday night, or in the queue at your local New World supermarket.
I know that during my daily life I will always come into contact with at least one fuckwit. I try not to let 1 fuckwit ruin my day, when 90% of people I meet on a day to day basis are good and decent people. Just like 90% of people I encounter on the road are good and decent citizens. I am not going to let Mr Fuckwit ruin my day or my enjoyment of riding a bike.

[AllanB]

Anyway, back on topic.........

So what about those Fuckwits on Motorcycles?

Depends.

The sun came out in Christchurch today (after it has been away for 3 weeks or more) so I went for a ride to Little River for a coffee and a piece of ginger slice. All very nice and I had a sociable chat with a few riders doing the same.

I was cruising 110-115 ish and I passed a few cars who were farting along at 85-90. That means I whizzed past at a good 30 kph faster than them - most likely waking them from their slumber, or at the very least giving them a bit of a shock as they appeared unaware of me being anywhere near them.

There is a possibility I was referred to as a 'fuckwit motorcyclist' by at least one of the drivers.

Personally I think of myself as a responsible one - (ignoring the obvious speed above the legal limit ) I only pass when it's clear and safe, and try my best to act with consideration to other road users.

[Ixion]

That's great.

Should we just ignore the irresponsible behaviour that has caused others harm?

Nope. I said before. If they (boy racers or bikers) fuck others about (keeping people awake, diesel on road, noisy exhausts , whatever), kick them up the arse hard as.

If they're (whoever 'they' may be) aren't fucking other folk around, then I reckon what they do is none of my business (or yours) .

Do whatever you want, but be ready to be held accountable for it. or, another way, 'An it harm none, do what thou wilt'.

[Katman]

What about them?? they will always be around.... just like fuckwits in cars, just like fuckwits you may meet randomly walking down the street on a saturday night, or in the queue at your local New World supermarket.

So if the government introduce draconian laws to combat fuckwits in cars (that, in turn, impact severely on Car Enthusiasts), you're happy for them to do the same to combat Fuckwits on Motorcycles (even if, in turn, it severely impacts on all motorcyclists)?

[mattian]

So if the government introduce draconian laws to combat fuckwits in cars (that, in turn, impact severely on Car Enthusiasts), you're happy for them to do the same to combat Fuckwits on Motorcycles (even if, in turn, it severely impacts on all motorcyclists)?

The government have already introduced "draconian" laws that we all have to abide by...... and, it doesnt severely impact my enthusiasm for motorcycles. for example..... its illegal to wheelie my motorcycle whenever the hell I want on the road or, patch it up whenever the light goes green. Thats not going to stop me enjoying my ride. I choose to obey the law when I ride..... and, I choose to enjoy my life while going about my daily business.

[jono035]

So if the government introduce draconian laws to combat fuckwits in cars (that, in turn, impact severely on Car Enthusiasts), you're happy for them to do the same to combat Fuckwits on Motorcycles (even if, in turn, it severely impacts on all motorcyclists)?

I'm not particularly happy with either option, and you've just presented what is called a False Dichotomy.