Emergency Braking

**p.dath** · 12th August 2009, 16:44

Originally Posted by The Stranger

Unless of course you have a full size Mac computer in a protective case rear of the rear wheel.

Haha. Yes if you could increase the friction of the rear wheel with more weight that would help.
However without such benefit I ask again, what additional affect will engine braking have over the rear brake once the front brake is applied hard.

I think almost none. So not worth spending time changing down.

**mossy1200** · 12th August 2009, 16:48

Originally Posted by The Stranger

Also interesting that most journos slammed the linked brakes on the Blackbird (exact same system on the VFR's) and many sites show you how to unlink the brakes.

The linked systems on modern BMWs are exceptional, though the only ones I have seen have been antilock also (which means the rear can't lock as weight is transferred) so I would be happy to see a comparrison between modern linked BMWs without ABS if you have one thanks.

I had a blackbird and the linked brakes were awesome.People like to post methods of removal of system because the think they have the ability to be better than the system that was carefully designed for them(may be true for the top 5% of riders).Then they think they can make a hyper sports tourer bike into sports bike.These same people that post this information most likely stick the cheepest organic no name pads that they can source from ebay also to save money.

As far as race riders giving advice on braking goes.They treat every approach to every corner as if it was a life or death manoeuvre cause if they dont they get passed under brakes.

I will agree that back brakes do very little once the front end is compressed as rear becomes light but the initial effect of them scrubing off speed at the beginning of the braking makes a huge impact on the total stopping distance.
After all its the stopping distance that saves your life if you get in trouble.
5metres can be the difference between contact with another vehicle or leaving the road.

The most important thing that people are not mentioning in this thread is to use the best method every time you stop so that its second nature when you need it.There is a difference between knowing how and doing in a panic situation and I would back second nature before decision makers every time.

*****If you ride like you mean business then you will do the business when it counts.******

Adding more weight means increased stopping distance.Only so much grip on a tyre and additional weight just makes things worse.Thats the law of physics(larger the mass the more force required to stop).Try better suspension equals better stopping distance.Thats a formular that will work.Or even correct tyre pressures.

**Ixion** · 12th August 2009, 16:50

Originally Posted by mossy1200

I..
The most important thing that people are not mentioning in this thread is to use the best method every time you stop so that its second nature when you need it.There is a difference between knowing how and doing in a panic situation and I would back second nature before decision makers every time.

..

And that just saved the thread from total pointlessness.

**R6_kid:Me** · 12th August 2009, 16:54

Originally Posted by Chrislost

If i had to emergency stop i would assume that the back wheel would be airbourne.
i would still use the rear brake.
i would still be in first by the time i had stopped.
[edit] i would still stop faster then you

The point about not changing down is valid. It's emergency braking, not slowing down for a corner. The few times I've had to emergency brake I've never bothered changing down, apart from the time when I had no front brakes in which case it certainly felt like changing down was slowing the bike faster than the rear brake was.

**jamestwin** · 12th August 2009, 16:57

Originally Posted by Chrislost

If i had to emergency stop i would assume that the back wheel would be airbourne.
i would still use the rear brake.
i would still be in first by the time i had stopped.
[edit] i would still stop faster then you

if u used your rear brake on a non-slip clutch application,
and the rear left the ground
physics would tell me the engine would near stop,

feel free to correct me

**Chrislost** · 12th August 2009, 16:59

Originally Posted by R6_kid

The point about not changing down is valid. It's emergency braking, not slowing down for a corner. The few times I've had to emergency brake I've never bothered changing down, apart from the time when I had no front brakes in which case it certainly felt like changing down was slowing the bike faster than the rear brake was.

Changing down is automatic.
as is the rear brake, as is looking for a driveway/ditch/cliff to jump into/off

**Chrislost** · 12th August 2009, 17:03

Originally Posted by jamestwin

if u used your rear brake on a non-slip clutch application,
and the rear left the ground
physics would tell me the engine would near stop,

feel free to correct me

You are not wrong! I still dont know if my bike has a slipper clutch.

If the clutch was pulled in at this stage one could go bang bang bang and be in first, without the bike realising its still doing more than 0km/h
upon landing the back wheel back on the ground the bike would essentially bump start itself and be ready to go again

**The Stranger:Me** · 12th August 2009, 17:11

Originally Posted by mossy1200

5metres can be the difference between contact with another vehicle or leaving the road.

Sorry, where did the 5m figure come from?

**Chrislost** · 12th August 2009, 17:18

Originally Posted by mossy1200

I will agree that back brakes do very little once the front end is compressed as rear becomes light but the initial effect of them scrubing off speed at the beginning of the braking makes a huge impact on the total stopping distance.
After all its the stopping distance that saves your life if you get in trouble.
5metres can be the difference between contact with another vehicle or leaving the road.

The most important thing that people are not mentioning in this thread is to use the best method every time you stop so that its second nature when you need it.There is a difference between knowing how and doing in a panic situation and I would back second nature before decision makers every time.

*****If you ride like you mean business then you will do the business when it counts.******

I love my rear brake. use it more then the front! the ammount of times it has saved my ass from hitting the pavement...!...
5m is fucking huge!!! more like .5 of a m between sweet and broken wrists...
***i agree***
If the mass was to stop the back lifting i would assume that one could stop faster as one wouldnt be flipping that stoppie...

**mossy1200** · 12th August 2009, 17:28

Originally Posted by Chrislost

I love my rear brake. use it more then the front! the ammount of times it has saved my ass from hitting the pavement...!...
5m is fucking huge!!! more like .5 of a m between sweet and broken wrists...
***i agree***
If the mass was to stop the back lifting i would assume that one could stop faster as one wouldnt be flipping that stoppie...

Every piece of additional weight that is above ground level still wants to go up and over the front because the pivit point is the contact patch of the front tyre on the road.Seeing as the front pivot point is where the stopping force is generated once the initial braking has begun then anything higher than that point is unwanted mass .

**scracha** · 12th August 2009, 17:57

Originally Posted by NDORFN

The moral of the story here is that if you have to read up on how to stop your bike most effectively in an emergency then you shouldn't even be on the road. Every bike is obviously different and in different condition, and the first thing you should do when you ride a new one is find the most effective braking technique for that bike. I'm glad this shit isn't going into Wiki.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of education on a subject prior to some real world experience. There are a hell of a lot of experienced motorcyclists out there who will happily tell you that they brake harder using the rear brake in an emergency stop.

**NDORFN** · 12th August 2009, 18:05

Originally Posted by p.dath

That's not a helpful view to take NDORFN. How do you propose people initially learn? Just by jumping on a bike and giving it a go?

Yes... that's exactly how I propose people learn. It's not just begginers either... anyone on an unfimiliar bike. Different techniques will work for different people on different bikes and the only way to find the most effective way is to experiment. There's only so many possible methods to braking... no one needs a lesson to figure them out, just this... "Here's the front brake lever, here's the rear brake pedal, there's some lines drawn at the end of your driveway... go nuts".

**Chrislost** · 12th August 2009, 18:06

Originally Posted by mossy1200

Every piece of additional weight that is above ground level still wants to go up and over the front because the pivit point is the contact patch of the front tyre on the road.Seeing as the front pivot point is where the stopping force is generated once the initial braking has begun then anything higher than that point is unwanted mass .

ever tried to do a stoppie with a pillion?

**Chrislost** · 12th August 2009, 18:09

Originally Posted by NDORFN

Yes... that's exactly how I propose people learn. It's not just begginers either... anyone on an unfimiliar bike. Different techniques will work for different people on different bikes and the only way to find the most effective way is to experiment. There's only so many possible methods to braking... no one needs a lesson to figure them out, just this... "Here's the front brake lever, here's the rear brake pedal, there's some lines drawn at the end of your driveway... go nuts".

the only way you can crash while braking is trying to turn or flipping it right over.
If the front locks FFS release the brakes a bit