ACC - How to get the nation's motorbike bill down

[AllanB]

I've advocated for a long time that ACC should not pay out if you were not wearing suitable gear. As to how far this goes would be the stickler - ie would there be a NZ standard for bike gear? Lets hope not - it would probably insist on gay-glow jackets.

I figure if you are riding in the following 'gear' then tough titties regarding ACC funding a payout.

no gloves
shorts
T-shirts or exposed arms (but heck Bubba no one will see my cool new tatt then....) ie you need a strong jacket.
jandals or any form of open footwear
skirts

You get the drift.


And tassels - I'm pretty sure they are really dangerous ......

[bogan]

I've advocated for a long time that ACC should not pay out if you were not wearing suitable gear. As to how far this goes would be the stickler - ie would there be a NZ standard for bike gear? Lets hope not - it would probably insist on gay-glow jackets.

I figure if you are riding in the following 'gear' then tough titties regarding ACC funding a payout.

no gloves
shorts
T-shirts or exposed arms (but heck Bubba no one will see my cool new tatt then....) ie you need a strong jacket.
jandals or any form of open footwear
skirts

You get the drift.


And tassels - I'm pretty sure they are really dangerous ......

Excellent idea, and acc payouts is possibly the easiest way of policing it

[Big Dave]

I vehemently oppose any impost on personal choice.

[p.dath]

...Perhaps compulsory gear is called for but what requirements do you place on it? If you go with it must have CE certification or what ever that would rule out an awful lot of perfectly functional leather gear....

I would like any such regulation to stipulate a standard that is still affordable.

My initial thoughts are that anything regulated should only specify some form of basic abrasion resistance initially. Then review it in, say, three years. If it is not enough at that time, tighten it up.
But my thrust is not so much what that standard should be, but that I think we have reached the point in time that we do need some regulated enforced standard. Them some expert can go away, analyse the data, and suggest the best solution for a minimum gear standard.

I think it should work like helmets. Basically you wouldn't be allowed to sell garments unless they met the standard (so the onus was on the seller).

For example, I can walk into a bike shop and buy a helmet for road use, and don't need to bother checking if it is NZ compliant or not - but I know regulation states that they can only sell compliant helmets.
I want the same ease when buying garments.

[cheesemethod]

Let me perhaps not use the word standard, but ACC have published recommendations for wearing gear on motorcycles.

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/gear_up/index.html

Good info there, but way too much for a new rider not to feel totally daunted by that. Wouldn't just telling them to go and get proper jacket/pants/boots/gloves from a MC shop be a better start? Sure, they might not end up with the absolute best gear, but if it's sold at a motorcycle shop then it should be motorcycle gear, therefore suitable for a new rider?

Do bike shops get that serious about pushing noobs into the right gear when they buy their first bike?

I vehemently oppose any impost on personal choice.

Yes, but you don't get to choose how much tax you pay, so it's a loose/loose situation.

[AllanB]

I vehemently oppose any impost on personal choice.

We lost that option decades ago Dave - you can hardly take a shit now with out someone measuring it and taxing you if it is 'oversize' .......

[Big Dave]

We lost that option decades ago Dave - you can hardly take a shit now with out someone measuring it and taxing you if it is 'oversize' .......

Educate, train, suggest.
I vehemently oppose any impost on personal choice.

[Kickaha]

Im all for personal freedom, but the case here is the freedom of some is coming at the expense of the freedom of others, those who chose not to use the right gear, crash and claim acc, put all our rego bills up, now I can only afford to have on bike on the road instead of two, doesn't sound like freedom to me.

And how many of those are there compared to the weekend warriors having single bike accidents while wearing all the gear and crashing and claiming ACC

I reckon the first group (non gear wearers) would be in far the minority

[Big Dave]

While we're at it - lets limit motorcycles to 250cc. That will keep accident costs down too.

And all clothing worn on a bike must be yellow.

[Subike]

I agree that wearing the right gear isimportant .
I also agree that you have the personal choice to do this and to remove that personal choice with a law that demands we wear a minimum of xyz gear would be wrong, and very dificult to police.
But then they introduced the seat belt law for cages that reduced injuries. Just as the helmet law has also reduced injuries.
Both laws we accept without much difficulty.
If there was one thing that could be changed, it would have to be something that was reasonable to all. Easy to police, and reduce the injury ratio for motorcyclists, even by a small margin
As previously suggested quality jackets gloves and pants are available ,
But at a cost and an almost impossible way of being policed .
But not so boots.
Just as we can see helmets, we can see boots.
If a law was passed that a min foot requirement were boots.
Not jandles, sandshoes, or any type of footwear that was below the ankle in its construction.
""Gumboots being the only "boot" that would not be compliant.as most are slip ons and have little more protection than sandshoes." debateable""
Then such a requrement would be easy to police, just like a seatbelt, a quick look and compliance is obvious.
Boots need not be over exspensive either, std work boots start at around $50up to $1000? for a top of the line riding boots.
Just with helmets, personal choice and budjet depicts what you wear.
I think that we would all agree the wearing boots would reduce injurys , The flow on from this would be riders wearing full pants because who wants to wear shorts with boots.
So it does not need to be a huge change to make a saving, just a small change,
This would leed in time to a more responcible attitude by riders in general.

[Jantar]

I have made a suggestion on the Safer Journeys website that I intend to formalise into a submission along the lines of - spend money on proper gear and have reduced ACC levies as a result.

The idea would be that when you buy new motorcycling safety gear (jacket, gloves etc) that you take your receipt along at rego time and receive a discount on the ACC levy portion of 10% of the amount you have spent on gear. eg, buy a $300 jacket and receive $30 discount on ACC levies.

There would need to be a cap on the discount, and that could be when the motorcyle portion of ACC levy is the same as for car owners.

This should encourage people to replace gear more often, or to purchase slightly better gear than they otherwise would. Rather than compulsion, it is encouragement, and may have more backing than outright compulsion.

[Big Dave]

Rather than compulsion, it is encouragement, and may have more backing than outright compulsion.

Now that makes sense.

[AllanB]

Educate, train, suggest.

The big G appears to totally ignore any suggestion of this action relating to vehicle licensing and training.

Presumably it's just too much bother and much easier to just write new law(s).

A smart Government in these troubled times would look at setting this up - they could rabbit on about all the new jobs the training schemes would make and quietly count the extra income from the GST on rider/driver training. If fact if they were really smart we would all have to do a refresher course every X years.

Would you pass dear KB members?

Would I gets points off for changing songs on my i-pod while I drive?

[AllanB]

The idea would be that when you buy new motorcycling safety gear (jacket, gloves etc) that you take your receipt along at rego time and receive a discount on the ACC levy portion of 10% of the amount you have spent on gear. eg, buy a $300 jacket and receive $30 discount on ACC levies.

Fark me with a big stick - that is an excellent idea.

[Big Dave]

Would you pass dear KB members?

On one wheel.