ACC - How to get the nation's motorbike bill down

[scracha]

Lives aren't justification enough for you? At last count there were 34 fatalities based on Rider Error, (there have been more since that number was released) lack of gear does not help. There'll be no enforcement, on gear.
But rather promotion of its benefits.

With all due respect, I've heard the "but if it saves one life" argument far too often. If we applied this rule to everything then the speed limit would be 50Kmph and motorcycling would be banned*

skirts

So I couldn't ride in my national dress? Besides, imagine never again seeing a fit mini skirted burd on the back of a sportsbike.

As many intelligent peeps have stated, better education/training of drivers and riders would reduce ACC costs far more than 'compulsory motorcycle gear' or lower speed limits.



*as would sex.....far too dangerous.

[p.dath]

...As many intelligent peeps have stated, better education/training of drivers and riders would reduce ACC costs far more than 'compulsory motorcycle gear' or lower speed limits....

So you would be happy to attend compulsory education/training? I bet if we had voluntary education/training most people wouldn't go.

So if you offer education and no one goes, you might as well not bother.


ps. Comment was made in jest.

[p.dath]

pps. Should we also legalise murder, but provide education courses to teach people it is wrong? And just what are we going to do about those people who just keep murdering others - even though they know it is wrong?

Or is murder somehow wrong, but not wearing safety gear is okay? And what are we going to do about those riders who hurt themselves (and our pockets) by not wearing gear - even though they know they really should have been wearing gear?

[Genestho]

*as would sex.....far too dangerous.

OH Gawd no! Don't even suggest banning of sex! You never know who's watching!!!! Haha.

I'll quote you good sir...as you have it in a nutshell ...

"As many intelligent peeps have stated, better education/training of drivers and riders would reduce ACC costs far more than 'compulsory motorcycle gear' or lower speed limits."

I'm of the opinion that the public would fare better being educated and better trained, better licensing system, also the benefits of ATGATT, given the ability to think for themselves on this one, rather than forced to think!
I would never support legislation on compulsary ATGATT, or lowering speed limits.

Wish me luck, I have an ACC meeting to attend in an hour

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

pps. Should we also legalise murder, but provide education courses to teach people it is wrong? And just what are we going to do about those people who just keep murdering others - even though they know it is wrong?

make every one walk round with bullet proof and stab proof vest or a suite of armour... its called the band aid effect, fixes the after effect or the immediate problem but not the core issue.

and don't forget the bubble wrap, gotta have bubble wrap

Better training of drivers (all) at the young age when they are sitting the license, and then show them what happpens when you fuck up on the road, make them feel what it feels like have an impact even at 30kph (which is easily done) and if they want to feel the 50kph up to them... doesn't take much inteligences from that to imagine a 100kph or a head on which equates to 200kph

[Genestho]

pps. Should we also legalise murder, but provide education courses to teach people it is wrong? And just what are we going to do about those people who just keep murdering others - even though they know it is wrong?

Or is murder somehow wrong, but not wearing safety gear is okay? And what are we going to do about those riders who hurt themselves (and our pockets) by not wearing gear - even though they know they really should have been wearing gear?

Generally speaking - Murderers generally have deep psychological problems, and can't be taught morals. A taking of a life on purpose, if proven to be murder, is completely different to this subject.

I think...the general population has morals, and they know right from wrong.

If you suggest wearing ATGATT because picking gravel out of your arse for months, or the loss of a nose is not nice, or sheering your ankle flat, I'd suggest people will think for themselves - "no I want to avoid picking gravel out of my arse, I like my nose, I like how I walk because I have ankles" vs I tell you to wear ATGATT because I said you should.

On a high CC engine, gear won't do alot of if you hit something solid, I know this.
I also know ATGATT would do something to protect you, if you slide, at low speed.

[Genestho]

then show them what happpens when you fuck up on the road, make them feel what it feels like have an impact even at 30kph (which is easily done) and if they want to feel the 50kph up to them... doesn't take much inteligences from that to imagine a 100kph or a head on which equates to 200kph

YES! I've looked mildly into simulators! Kids are blown away by visuals

[p.dath]

Actually I like that idea of simulators! That would be a lot of fun to learn on.

[bogan]

easy, get a ladder, drop people off it at different heights to simulate different speeds. Probably start by dropping people onto some soggy ground, maybe move up to gravel, or a slope to simulate the skidding along the ground a bit, start with a drop with safety gear, then perform one without.

[Subike]

YES! I've looked mildly into simulators! Kids are blown away by visuals

Simulators, why has nobody pushed these as a min requirement for driving anything.
Look at the air industry, the tec is there ,how many comercial pilots have to spend hours in these things before they are allowed to pilot a passenger jet?
How could it be any different for the road.

1 Google has produced a road map on line for basically every where in this nation, so you can "see" the road from a drivers seating position.
2 Playstaion has proved that quality simulations can be had for all motor sport, hence professional drivers use their games to practice race tracks like Bathurst.
3 the air industryalready has flight simulators that give very realistic simulations, including accidents. Could older models be converted to simulate road conditions?
4 A high majority of todays people are very fimiliar with computor driven simulations and ENJOY using them. Personal involment on an exciting, stimulating level.

so we combine these togeather,build simulators for each teating station, loaded with the road conditions for the area it is bassed in and then use it not only as a driving education tool, but also a teachng tool to see if a person is able to drive in saftly on the road.
A test drive in a simulator could throw many probable accident senarios at a learner in safty, they fail, they dont drive on the street.
If they are afraid of failing in a simulator, they are destend to fail on the street.
Oh the cost? heaps Im sure for the set up of this.
But apart from updates of the computor programme, possibly a lot less than the ACC cost per year for the accedents caused by bad drivers who should not ever have a licence.
The saving? Every person could be tested at any time to see if they are a fit and able driver, in saftey, on a level playing field.The saving would be lives for sure.

This is only a brief idea of what could be done to lower the road incident ratio in NZ. But one that is real, would be taken on board by a lot of people, and can also be ENJOYABLE for the participant.
Put fun into the equasion, and people will get involved.
Made it hard line , like forcing clothing laws, people will fight against it.
We naturally like excitment and run from supression.
ACC reduction can only realy be bought about by good education that excites and gets people involved.

[allycatz]

While 32 deaths on motorcycles is 32 too many, it is only a proportion of the total of all vehicle crashes. Its a bit like saying that 46% drunk drivers cause accidents but that leaves 54% who should of known better cos they were sober. I wonder if the govt. targets mb's cos its largely an optional ownership and secondary to owning a cage. Bikes arnt cheap, so the rider could be deemed to be paying a penalty for an expensive hobby. A bit like cops cruising Remuera for traffic violations cos its llikely to be paid for, unlike a boy racer from Otara.

[scracha]

So you would be happy to attend compulsory education/training? I bet if we had voluntary education/training most people wouldn't go.

Well if it were compulsory then would it matter whether I were happy to attend or not?


I bet if there were more free driver/rider education/training then most people would happily attend.

[p.dath]

...I bet if there were more free driver/rider education/training then most people would happily attend.

I bet the exact opposite. That even if free education/training for motorcycle safety existed, than the majority (as in, more than 50%) of riders would not attend.

For example, how many new riders have been to existing free training in there area - such as NASS that's on every Wednesday?

[Squiggles]

IFor example, how many new riders have been to existing free training in there area - such as NASS that's on every Wednesday?

A better example would be RRRS, although it costs $50 for the day.

[bogan]

I bet if there were more free driver/rider education/training then most people would happily attend.

I think a decent number would go along, and it would make a difference, i'd go at least. But the people who go would probably already be safety consious, and a little less likely to have an off while riding in the first place.